Select to expand quotemottle33 said..twodogs1969 said..
I would be interested in seeing your setup.
I am thinking of installing on im my Mottle.
Just not sure how to go about it.
I have a diablo 60l tank in the wet locker next to the head, skin fitting is under the sink, head connected directly to holding tank, holding tank pump out is a manual pump behind head, going via vented loop to ball valve and outlet. I have not installed it yet,but will send you pics if you like. The breather will exit on somewhere, not decided just yet.
Cheers Lukas
Have also fitted a Diablo 60l holding tank in my Cav 28 mounted in the port side cockpit locker fixed to a purpose built shelf. The head is connected to the tank. Outlet is through a Y connector, to divert one through skin fitting with ball valve below the waterline with macerator inline and the other to deck outlet for pump out. The tank is vented through the stern by a 25mill tube. Haven't smelt anything yet.
Was told 60l capacity does 2 people for about 3 days.
Ok so I have a date booked for anti-fouling (Wed 14th June) at which time they are going to fit the thru-hull fittings. So I need to get some advice on this install (sorry to hijack the original thread)
I am looking at this toilet: Jabsco 12v. Does anyone have any issues with these models?
www.whitworths.com.au/
And this Diablo holding tank:
www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=133&item=85060&intAbsolutePage=1
And this lid:
www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=133&item=85074&intAbsolutePage=1
Then I just have to organise the skin and bulkhead fittings (cause it has to pass through a sealed buoyancy chamber to get to the sea).
Anyone know what is the difference between these two stainless 3/4 skin fittings?? (for the inlet/outlets)
$40
www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=133&item=78530&intAbsolutePage=1
$23
www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=133&item=78522&intAbsolutePage=2
the manual toilet should be more reliable, and won,t drain your battery. they macerate at the manual pump
Ok will it be able to pump by hand up to a tank that is about 80cm higher than the toilet bowl?
The electric ppump / macerator won't use much power. It'll break up waste and paper better then a manual pump. The electric pump will push waste up into the higher tank (my system had to lift the waste 600mm+, which it did without any problems). I don't have experience with using a manual pump for this. I think you'll need a Manual bilge pump (or electric macerator pump) to pump out your holding tank. Even if it's 800mm above the thru hull, you have to pump the waste out of the top of the tank. The toilet pump (manual or electric) won't do that for you.
Its a system with different components doing doing different jobs. The simplest would be toilet to holding tank to outlet, but if you want to also include toilet straight to outlet, you'll need a Y type three way tap. Also keep in mind that 1.5 inch waste quality hose it tough as, not easy to work with, and bloody difficult to get off once fitted. It needs gentle bends to change direction, and shouldn't have any low points where waste will collect, cos it'll turn to concrete and block your system. After you empty the waste tank, its wise to flush it through to stop it developing a layer of sludge. It's also recommended that the waste tank has 10 or so litres of water in it to start, to help keep the system from clogging.
FdeC, you mentioned earlier you needed to pass the outlet through your front floatation area. It'll be hard to seal the pipe inlet & outlet, so you might consider also fitting a 6 inch inspection port, not trying to seal the pipe holes, and filling the chamber with empty milk bottles or similar.
****ty topic, but if you set up the system properly it'll work fine.
Agree with Bushdog, very little power consumption by an electric loo, mine only
needs about 5 seconds to fully flush, and that's with a man sized turd (sorry). So
don't worry about battery usage Felix, it's negligible.
To put your holding tank above the level of your loo is asking for trouble!
It is going to come back to haunt you!!!
Literally!
Deep as possible, where it belongs.
And never ever, under any circumstances put bum fodder into the bowl. Never.
Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
To put your holding tank above the level of your loo is asking for trouble!
It is going to come back to haunt you!!!
Literally!
Deep as possible, where it belongs.
And never ever, under any circumstances put bum fodder into the bowl. Never.
Why? what will happen?
Here is my diagram so far.
Although I do need to pass through the floatation chamber I believe I will be able to make this happen while maintaining the seal. I will fabricate my own stainless bulkhead fittings and inspection hatch.
The tank will be held up well above the waterline.
My main question at the moment is... Do I need to have a ball valve immediately attached to the skin fitting (i.e. INSIDE the sealed chamber) or can I place them above the floatation chamber for easy access???
Sorry Felix, looks a bit like boat Russian roulette to me... 60 litre tank suspended, waste outlet ahead of toilet inlet... No easy location for outlet pump unless you fit an electric one...
No rush. You've got a month before the Cat's haulout. Have a look at Peggy Hall's ebook. It'll give you a reliable basis for your design.
Select to expand quoteFelixdeCat said..sirgallivant said..
To put your holding tank above the level of your loo is asking for trouble!
It is going to come back to haunt you!!!
Literally!
Deep as possible, where it belongs.
And never ever, under any circumstances put bum fodder into the bowl. Never.
Why? what will happen?
Here is my diagram so far.
Although I do need to pass through the floatation chamber I believe I will be able to make this happen while maintaining the seal. I will fabricate my own stainless bulkhead fittings and inspection hatch.
The tank will be held up well above the waterline.
My main question at the moment is... Do I need to have a ball valve immediately attached to the skin fitting (i.e. INSIDE the sealed chamber) or can I place them above the floatation chamber for easy access???
Place your vent out the side of the boat not through the deck because if the tank overfills you will know why.
Most production boats, including my Hanse have their holding tanks above the toilet. After some time the joker valve ( non-return valve) can leak back. I replace my joker valve every 12 months and I alway carry a spare. A good thing to do with any toilet is to throw a bucket of fresh water with a bit of disinfectant in the bowl and then pump it out with the dry bowl function when ever your finished using the boat. This way any back seepage will not smell.
ps. you can / will get smell in the inlet sea water pipe which there are some simple ways to stop this but that's another subject.
Ok so Ive been shopping and put the toilet and tank in position to check distances.
The design has changed so now the plan is to cut out the smaller floor section and replace this with a false floor made of hardwood for example. This will give me a design which leaves the flotation chamber intact and also makes it really easy to access the ball valves and diverter.
The total cost looks to be about $1300 plus the cost of fitting the skin fittings by the shipwright. Hopefully drilling a couple of holes wont cost more than a couple of hundred dollars, so I can stick to the $1500 original budget.
I don't have much choice about placing the tank above the water line. So mounting it high with some stainless brackets and using gravity to feed the overboard discharge makes sense to me. One less pump to worry about.
One question I still have is what hull fitting to use for the tank vent. Should I just use a 1 inch skin fitting or what???
Well the skin fittings are in and the construction for the new floor is under way. My question to the forum is the tank vent. Please help!
1. What thru-hull fitting do you guys use for the vent pipe? I bought a 1 inch Trudesign one, will that do or does it need to have a valve to prevent rain water getting in?
2. Does this fitting need to exit the hull above the tank, below the tank or doesnt matter?
My idea was to exit it on the side of the hull which is under the bridgedeck so rain wont get in but will it create a smell?
Thanks for your advice.
Gday Felix
I only just found this thread. It looks like you are almost there.
My holding tank, like yours is above the toilet. It works well. The hose leading into the tank goes to the top of the tank so there is no back syphoning. I have a seacock at the tank that I turn on only to dump the tank. I also have a seacock on the other end that is never turned off. That's because my exit seacock is above the waterline. It may sound gross but it only is used when moving fast and no one ever notices. One less hole below waterline.
As for a vent we use a small through hull fitting and a small hose. It is only air involved. I would advise you to try and put a charcoal filter of some sort in line. I use old paint respirator cartridges but ours is pretty agricultural. Something like an inline water filter may be fine. Vent to wherever - it is smells, you will find out.
Our vent is above the tank. Seems to work fine.
One of the hardest things about the tank is knowing when it is getting full. Figure something out and then tell me what you did.
cheers
Phil
Select to expand quoteKankama said..
Our vent is above the tank. Seems to work fine.
This is the bit I am struggling with. I'm almost finished and I want to put the vent outlet below the tank. Because then the hull will be sloping down and therefore no rainwater will collect in there. Am I worried about nothing?
But I dont know if that will cause any issues. I bought a Tru-design filter like you suggested.
I bought a boat (32' converted cray boat) last year and had the toilet converted from manual to electric (TMC) with a holding tank. The setup was expensive as I had it done by 'professionals' in SA - but it has never worked!!
Any fluids in the toilet bowl just get pumped around and around when I press the electric macerator switch - the material never seems to get sent to the tank. Is there a button or valve that needs to be set which will cause waste to get pumped from toilet to tank?
The installation allows the system to either pump to the holding tank or over the side - this decison is controlled by a Y valve and I have tried this in both positions with no difference!!
Any ideas/suggestions for what I can do to work out what is going wrong would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Neil
Select to expand quoteRamona said..Jethrow said..Ramona said..mottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Hi Ramona
Where you say "You don't need a holding tank" are you referring to your local area or to a ruling you've seen. I must admit I've been toing & froing on the whole holding tank thing for a while now.
The RMS website is very obtuse in it's information.
First it says there are no SPECIFIC regulations but then later it says it's an offense to pollute the waterways. I wish they'd just come out and give a ruling
Confused...
The "rules" I quoted are from the annual inspections I used to be subjected to each year for vessels in survey and apply for Greenwell Point. Lukas is moored near my vessel and asked about the regulations for this place. I have been retired 10 years now and do not have a vessel in survey anymore but as far as I am aware the regulations have not changed. The regulations for Here are different from Sydney Harbour and Pittwater. The rules and regulations are more strict for commercial operators. Charter boats have to have holding tanks. Fishing vessels have to as well if they have an installed toilet. If they don't once they are more than 100 metres from public toilets or the wharf then it's up to you. I personally think if a macerator is used it's treated! We only have one live aboard here at the moment and his waste would be insignificant compared to all the duck **** we have to contend with. A few weeks back a dead pig bumped into my tender while I was sitting in it. All sorts of farm fecal matter enter the river system.
It is absolutely right not to discharge waste in a pristine environment where it might hurt people and make a mess. But to keep it in perspective in Australia there were over 17,000 apartment build approvals in June alone. Thats 17,000 more toilets flushing into the oceans in ONE month. Most in Sydney. Who knows why our dopey government thinks growth is good and encourages 17,000 more toilets in one month then worries about a few boaties!!!
Thats not to mention cruise liners ....
Select to expand quoteFelixdeCat said..Kankama said..
Our vent is above the tank. Seems to work fine.
This is the bit I am struggling with. I'm almost finished and I want to put the vent outlet below the tank. Because then the hull will be sloping down and therefore no rainwater will collect in there. Am I worried about nothing?
But I dont know if that will cause any issues. I bought a Tru-design filter like you suggested.
Hi, I would strongly suggest that you buy or borrow Peg Halls book, getting rid of boat smells I think is the name, it will answer all your questions. FWIW the first diagram above is in fact good and the second is definitely not good. 
Select to expand quoteGlennRobert said..
I bought a boat (32' converted cray boat) last year and had the toilet converted from manual to electric (TMC) with a holding tank. The setup was expensive as I had it done by 'professionals' in SA - but it has never worked!!
Any fluids in the toilet bowl just get pumped around and around when I press the electric macerator switch - the material never seems to get sent to the tank. Is there a button or valve that needs to be set which will cause waste to get pumped from toilet to tank?
The installation allows the system to either pump to the holding tank or over the side - this decison is controlled by a Y valve and I have tried this in both positions with no difference!!
Any ideas/suggestions for what I can do to work out what is going wrong would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Neil
Hi Neil,
1.Check the hoses are not reversed back to front( suction and discharge)
2. There is a rubber flapper type check valve on the discharge ,it might have been installed back to front.
When I got my electric TMC delivered the hoses were on the wrong side.
I have been building my own gravity feed holding tanks and using TMC electric loos on my last 2 yachts over the past 8 years. Fitting a holding tank below waterline is asking for trouble. That's my opinon. I posted a thread on gravity feed holding tanks here on Seabreeze about 2 years ago and she's still going strong as a live-aboard.
Well nobody seems to be able to give me a definitive answer on the vent thing. The instructions for the tru design carbon vent filter say that it has to be mounted "as high as possible" above the tank to prevent liquid splashing into the carbon filter. It also should be mounted vertically or at least on 45 degrees.
So I can do that but then I will need to exit the hull well above the tank.. So how do people prevent rain water entering the vent pipe and soaking the filter and filling the tank with rain water??????
The toilet is working fine and now I just need to work on aesthetics (shower curtain to hide all the plumbing, oil the floorboards etc).
Select to expand quoteFelixdeCat said..
Well nobody seems to be able to give me a definitive answer on the vent thing. The instructions for the tru design carbon vent filter say that it has to be mounted "as high as possible" above the tank to prevent liquid splashing into the carbon filter. It also should be mounted vertically or at least on 45 degrees.
So I can do that but then I will need to exit the hull well above the tank.. So how do people prevent rain water entering the vent pipe and soaking the filter and filling the tank with rain water??????
The toilet is working fine and now I just need to work on aesthetics (shower curtain to hide all the plumbing, oil the floorboards etc).
That's looking reasonably good so far I would have skipped the Yvalve personaly I just use the seacock outlet to turn the discharge off/on. The breather should just go direct from the top of the tank strait out in a horizontal line to a breather on the outside of your hull.
Ok I looked up breathers on whitworths and that looks like what I need. Something that goes out but then points down so the rain can't get in.
The gravity drain works really well and the vented loop thing was easier than I though. It fills the bowl to just the right level each time so the pump is never dry but the bowl is never too full either.
Go me!
