Select to expand quoteBROWNSMTRACE said..
Yeah i knew that donk just being polite 
No worries
Select to expand quoteBROWNSMTRACE said..
I owned a Matzcraft it would easily sail 8kts cockpit small and the wheel can't be stood behind I hated that, but inside is fantastic big rear room hot shower and kids have their own room I have seen them sell as low as $30000 but as you say you will be fixing it up and that's not you want.
If size really dosnt worry you and you want something to learn on , cheap to maintain very forgiving and a great seaboat the Duncason 29 is amazing value much loved in general by their owners, and so cheap.
seen some in SA from as little as$10.000 YOU really would learn to sail on these but limited space .
If you start going peformance you start getting flighty I would suggest looking for a boat that will look after you and forgives your mistakes .
wives tend not to go back when they have been scared.
Okay good to know, thanks. That type of boat would suit us well. They seem expensive though (esp. the one above) and the small cockpit turns me off a bit. I'll keepnit on the short list & try to look over one if I have the chance.
I looked at the Duncaston on your recommendation. Nice boat but small dor us as you say.
Good point on the scared wife comment - that's the last thing I need!
Select to expand quoteBROWNSMTRACE said..
That engine would worry me the timber on the outside shows it hasn't been as loving looked after as they say $65 Would be achievable on that yacht but that would be the start of your spending.
Sloop rig unusual on the Martzcraft.
I sailed mine enginless to Cairns , you can't do that with a yacht that dosnt sail well .
65k still seems expensive given what else is available in the market size wise and condition. Were they expensive new?
what about the motor worries you? Is it the condition in the pics?
Select to expand quoterapscallion said..
Have a look at the Phantoms. The 33 has a wider cockpit than the 32 which is better for the family. I regularly singlehand and they are easy to sail. They are sloop rigged and aren't prone to osmosis. If you want Davits it's easy to get them. I bought some Martec Davits online and they bolted straight on in less then half an hour.
They are very capable boats and are cruising up and down the coast regularly. You can pick them up for under fifty grand and there seems to be a lot down your way.
Rapscallion How are they in light wind? I haven't heard of them before your post. To give me an idea, how would it sail compared to a Mottle, the S&S Ramona posted about and a Martzcraft?
Dont mean to bang on about the Van de Stadt Seal but there is a real nice one on ausie yachties buy swap sell for 35k. Deceased estate.
Select to expand quoteozwrangler said..
What does your wife think?
Where's the baby get stowed?
2 kids (ages?), 1 baby, drive from Canberra for weekends, 'time poor', $50k budget ... 
Wife is somewhat onboard (pun intended) ozwrangler. It was her who suggested we look to buy a boat and get some more sailing experience. That said it could still go awry if we had too many bad experiences or the boat doesn't suit us, is too old and crap etc.
that said I'm keen to try and see if we get into sailing. Worse case I sell the boat after sometime but better to try than not. But the right boat will help to make the experience more enjoyable I feel.
2 yo and 2nd due Dec. Babies are pretty portable, we'll find a place for him/her :) but that's 1 if the reasons we'd like a seperate cabin or 2.
50k budget could be pushed out to some extent. But we'd prefer not to sink too much into it incase it doesn't work out. Can always trade up I figure
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
The S&S is a well cared for boat - I've been aboard. Owned by very nice and very experienced people.
As a former Batemans Bay/Canberra sailor (who is about to relinquish a mooring in a great spot near the bridge) I'd be concerned about going much over 5ft in draft due to the depth of the bar. We went from 4ft 8" draft to over 6ft and noticed how much more we were constrained by the tides with the bigger boat.
I love the Bay and miss it even though the boat is now in Port Stephens. Although it's not much good for anchoring in a southerly, there are some lovely little bays that are protected from winds from the north-east through to the west. The river also offers a nice gentle area to motor and anchor.
If you are thinking long term, I'd enquire about the height of the new bridge. It will stop boats like our current 36'er from going up the river.
The Bay is affected by swell much of the time. Our 28'er is quite rolly at anchor so we just used to put out a stern anchor to hold her in line with the swell. While it wasn't critical in the 36'er, it still made a lot of difference to comfort. I would place a high priority on being able to run a stern anchor out easily. That, coupled with the shorebreak on the beaches, means a good dinghy is important and you have to be able to handle it and get in and out easily. A boarding platform or fairly moderate freeboard would be good things to have. A high-freeboard boat without a boarding platform could be a problem.
In the typical summer NE, the five bays along the northern shore all make lovely anchorages. The un-named one to the east of Reef Point was one of our favourites; roos on shore, no house to be seen apart from those 5ks south on the other side of the bay, water so clear you can easily see the anchor 20ft down, and white sand.
My favourite spot was between the Tollgate Islands. Although in strong winds it's exposed, it can be an overnight anchorage in lighter conditions. If you have a good dinghy you can go around to the Shark Gully, to snorkel in clear water among overhanging slabs or rock, or motor through the sea cave. There's good snorkelling - not as good as the Barrier Reef, but lovely. In whale season it's spectacular but there are normally dolphins and fairy penguins.
Broulee is a good anchorage 10m south that works in most conditions, while Durras offers one anchorage protected from the north and two protected from the south. Moruya River has a narrow entrance but it's not too shallow and you can go all the way up to the town.
BB does require more effort than somewhere like Port Stephens. You will have to learn the tide-restricted bar, the way wind and swell affects some anchorages, etc. You'll have to learn to be careful around the rocks, especially if you're trying to find a new place to anchor. But the wildlife is great; it feels like real cruising because you are normally anchored alone; and it has a lovely unexplored feel to it. Take it easy at first since one bad day rolling around in the wrong anchorage can turn off a family forever.
The Martzcraft isn't as quick as the other boats you've looked at and while the design deserves respect, if you're getting in and out of a dinghy in anchorages that are rarely dead calm I'd be cautious about its high freeboard. Same with the Jarkan which is also a fine boat. The Arends is shallow, which is good, but like the Martzcraft not a quick boat.
The Mottle does seem like a good choice. That low, wide stern could take a boarding platform very easily. If you get davits, which could be a good idea, check their capacity as some only take tiny dinghies and around BB, a slightly larger dinghy can be a real plus.
Hi Chris
You make some great points and thanks very much for the great local knowledge on B.B. and the surrounds. I was unaware of the new bridge and hadn't considered draft for the area or freeboard with kids. Another reason I'm glad i have you all here to ask questions and seek help - thank you all.
I'd be interested to talk with you about your mooring if it's not already taken.
I agree a substantial tender is worthwhile and also useful for safety if I need to pile everyone in incase of emergency.
What will help me assess if a yacht is able to take a stern anchor easily?
Regarding the dislike of davits, how do you all find it towing a tender under sail and does it significantly slow a yacht? This is my alternative and when the boat is on the mooring the tender will mostly be onshore so that'll hopefully keep the local louts at bay Ramona!
Ramona my wife and I actually prefer the Jervis Bay area and although the new road makes a trip quicker it's still another hr drive from CBA :( Downsides of the landlocked capital.
Pros and cons with both the Sadler & the 'Clayton's' S&S in BB. Which one would you pick and why?
I'd be having the biggest discussion with your wife, not what people on here think about boats they think are best. What is important to her and the kids to keep them interested in making the long drive from Canberra?
In discussions with my wife, things she considered important included, modern boat, light, bright and spacious cabin, good galley with storage and oven (great for heating up quick easy meals for kids - pizzas etc). Roomy cockpit suitable for family meals and hanging out. Walk through transom/swim platform for ease with the kids swimming/fishing off the back. Shade (Bimini) and good protection underway (dodger). She was interested in the image of calm sunny days moored in beautiful bays and beaches.
Given the above, my wife would most likely be interested in boats like this.https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/catalina-30-mk-ii/213030
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/catalina-320/103480
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/northshore-310/221531
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/northshore-340-mk-ii/218493
Select to expand quoteBROWNSMTRACE said..
There is one in Tin Can Bay (S&S34) has spent a lot of money on a paint job which looks fantastic but every time it comes out of the water it's covered in blisters.
The other one i saw was in Lauries marina on the hard stand first time I had seen one with the keel off , sure makes the yacht look small they had taken all the gel coat off to do repairs.
The gel coat is shot on alot of them , 1000's of little craters. from what I have seen, mostly the first half of the 80's built boats.
Also they all seem to have that Catalina keel smile too,, maybe from changing the way they stiffened the hull??
Hi mattthefrog,
As a happy Catalina 34 MKII 2 owner, I think this one listed by FreeRadical will meet all your requirements. Clean, light, airy, sails well, hot & cold water, shower, good galley, sugar scoop & boarding ladder makes getting in & out of the water easy, etc, etc
I'm sure the wife will love it.
Strap the dingy down on foredeck when at sea or tow it if conditions allow.
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/catalina-320/103480
regards,
Allan
Select to expand quotemattthefrog said..rapscallion said..
Have a look at the Phantoms. The 33 has a wider cockpit than the 32 which is better for the family. I regularly singlehand and they are easy to sail. They are sloop rigged and aren't prone to osmosis. If you want Davits it's easy to get them. I bought some Martec Davits online and they bolted straight on in less then half an hour.
They are very capable boats and are cruising up and down the coast regularly. You can pick them up for under fifty grand and there seems to be a lot down your way.
Rapscallion How are they in light wind? I haven't heard of them before your post. To give me an idea, how would it sail compared to a Mottle, the S&S Ramona posted about and a Martzcraft?
The phantoms sail well in light winds but perform best in anything over 12knots. With the standard sails I didn't have to reef until over 20knots. I have put a 150% Genoa on and quite often just sail on the headsail while single handing. Just because it's easier and the boat powers along quite well with the setup. In 15 knots on the headsail I will usually be doing 6.5 knots. The best I have gotten was 9.5 knots in a 30knot south westerly running up the sandy straights from Sheridan flats.
There are a few different layouts for them as they were fitted out as per the owners specs when built. A lot have a sea berth in the saloon which I'm not a fan of because you loose a lot of space. The 32's have a narrower stern than the 33's. The 33's were made with a bit more beam which doesn't sound like much but really does make a difference inside.
The cockpit is huge for a 33 foot boat which is important for kids.
They have a heap of storage, carry plent of fuel and water and are rock solid. I haven't heard of any osmosis issues.
I am currently sitting on mine anchored at kingfisher bay resort hiding from the 20knot southeasterly winds with nothing much to do except go fishing and be on holidays??.
We have been away for 2 weeks and have done a leisurely 300miles without needing to resupply except for topping up the water tanks in Tin Can Bay because we could.
If you are considering a Phantom there is a phantom owners Facebook page. Someone was advertising a Phantom 34 on there yesterday. It's basically a 33 with a sugar scoop. It has new rigging and looks OK. He didn't show a price though.
Cheers
Mick
Select to expand quoteDatawiz said..
Hi mattthefrog,
As a happy Catalina 34 MKII 2 owner, I think this one listed by FreeRadical will meet all your requirements. Clean, light, airy, sails well, hot & cold water, shower, good galley, sugar scoop & boarding ladder makes getting in & out of the water easy, etc, etc
I'm sure the wife will love it.
Strap the dingy down on foredeck when at sea or tow it if conditions allow.
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/catalina-320/103480
regards,
Allan
I would agree,
there's a few down the local marina and the owners love them, they are very user friendly, well thought out .
Select to expand quotemattthefrog said..
Regarding the dislike of davits, how do you all find it towing a tender under sail and does it significantly slow a yacht? This is my alternative and when the boat is on the mooring the tender will mostly be onshore so that'll hopefully keep the local louts at bay Ramona!
Towing a tender of any description is to be avoided. Leaving a brand name dinghy on the beach or in a dinghy rack is asking for trouble. Last day of a longweekend they wander! Clapped out old tinnie painted baby**** yellow is the go.
Towing a dingy does add significant drag, you've only got to pull on the painter when under way to get an idea of how much. I nearly always lift mine on davits as I need all the help I can get !
Ramona I guess you leave yours on the mooring ?
If a yacht dosnt have a good galley and I mean a real good one most women will not be happy , it won't be long before they are only tagging along for you.
And let's face it logic says why are we spending so much money if we are only camping?
Yacht builders have done their home work they design the boat to sell to the wife, it starts with the sugar scoop then the outdoor party area ( even got an ice box in the cockpit ) then the galley lounge and fantastic bedroom etc YES she says I like this one , and she will be very happy to leave the nest (home) and happy wife is happy life smile
Now all you have to do is find the compromise and that can mean composite built boats foam, ply,
Cast iron keels ....
solid glass is my preference lead in the keel, even bolted on lead is great, hit the putty the lead takes the impact and can be reshaped lead costs lots of money so it shows the builder wasn't cutting to many corners.
Boats are not selling well and the house market is going to keep dropping so you want a boat that is way up on the sort after market for some sort or resale value.
unless you want to be like the rest of us waiting for ever to sell and then still give it away.
Because of the housing market bargains can be found, real bargains not run down boats that seem a bargain .
I would suggest enjoy the buying process , always great to look knowing you could have it if you wanted , becoming more aware of the down falls you could have fallen into if you had just jumped in.
As I said start with a very good galley and comfort then expand around that, your wife will love you for it smile.
Hi Mattthefrog,
We have recently been through a similar experience over the last 4 years, without the small children though.
We purchased a cheaper boat to see if the dream was all it was cracked up to be and get some experience. Since this purchase we have gained experience and spent some great times down at Jervis Bay enjoying the freedom and life style and now purchase a later model production boat after an extensive search from Melbourne to Brisbane.
I would recommend you and your wife take a pragmatic approach to compromise in a first boat and definitely keep in mind it is only for a limited time. Important things in my opinion are space below, a safe spacious cockpit, access from a tender and sailing characteristics. It is not always going to be plain sailing so a boat that is solid in rough weather will allow you both to get experience without any truly life defining moments.
Our first boat was a Swanson 32 with a sugar scoop fitted. With a full keel and skeg hung rudder it has been excellent to learn in, with easy solid sailing ability and it handles heavy conditions well. We also live in Canberra, Tuggeranong, and have our Swanson moored in the Shoalhaven River near Ramona. It is an easy drive, taking about 2 1/2 hours to Nowra through Bungendore, Tarago and Nerriga with the road being sealed all the way now and further upgrades happening. So it's not very different to the drive to the Bay and you don't have hour long traffic jams at Braidwood on long weekends and school holidays
All the best with your search. Cheers.
Some excellent advice here but I don't envy you deciphering it to find the best way ahead.
To add to the confusion I will say that all the creature comforts, space, light and mod cons will be the least of your requirements when caught in a bad blow. It will happen and when the boat is on its beam ends, uncontrollable and everybody is terrified you will be praying for a stable, solid well found vesssel. Combining modern comforts and rock solid stability and build quality is very expensive and isn't usually found in the price range here. Compromises will need to be made, I just advise you to keep that fear that occurs in a big blow in your mind when deciding.
Select to expand quoteMagicCarpet4 said..
Hi Mattthefrog,
We have recently been through a similar experience over the last 4 years, without the small children though.
We purchased a cheaper boat to see if the dream was all it was cracked up to be and get some experience.
Been waiting on you to chime in. I would always suggest a starter boat first but Canberra people tend to want the lot in a first boat. That Amel 54 next to me for example.
I think Morningbird is spot on and that is how my mind works when I pick a yacht ,and his is the one i would like to be on in a storm.
But I doubt that a coastal cruiser is going to need that boat here.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..MagicCarpet4 said..
Hi Mattthefrog,
We have recently been through a similar experience over the last 4 years, without the small children though.
We purchased a cheaper boat to see if the dream was all it was cracked up to be and get some experience.
Been waiting on you to chime in. I would always suggest a starter boat first but Canberra people tend to want the lot in a first boat. That Amel 54 next to me for example.
Thought I should offer MHO and recent experience. A defining moment while sailing is safety and the feeling of confidence in the boat. I would always recommend a full encapsulated keel for anybody starting out blue water sailing. The weather can change and spending any length of time terrified in a big sea will quickly turn anybody off the past time. We have been out in the Swanson in some big southerlies and although progress wasn't great besides being wet and cold the solid feeling of 39% Bal/Disp ratio is comforting. Any boat purchase will involve a compromise but safety should not be one of them.
It gets windy down at Batemans Bay, but it's not blue water sailing. I found sailing off BB easier than sailing off Sydney or Jervis, because there aren't the huge cliffs that send waves bouncing away to create a washing machine. There also isn't as distinct a jump between the protected waters and the offshore stuff - it's more gradual so you get warning as the conditions get a bit rougher as you head further out. The centre of the Bay is, after all, the site of one of NSW's biggest mixed dinghy and cat regattas.
One other point is that local geography appears to influence wind strength much more than in most other areas, so a flexible rig is great. To me that means a short-overlap fractional, preferably with a furler. Since distances are short, something like a cutter would be a pain because it makes tacking awkward. You may have 20 knots of NE or westerly near the Tollgates, and have almost calm conditions a few miles away near the bar.
There's a Northshore 31 that looks quite good for the purpose. I also saw that yoti had a Beneteau 32s5 up at a fairly good price - not my sort of boat but arguably quite good for the OP's wishes.
The more I hear from the OP, the more I reckon a sugar scoop stern is important, or at least a wide stern that can be fitted with a boarding platform. Davits may not be that important since you're normally on water that is flat enough to mean that the fairly large dinghy a family should have on that water will be OK to tow.
I haven't cruised much on Jervis but I've done a lot of small craft racing there. For what it's worth, I reckon it may be better in mild conditions but tougher in hard or changeable stuff, because of the exposed moorings and the greater distance to the windward shore.
Hi as a former Catalina320 owner I agree with the comments made by Jolene and Datawiz. They are a very comfortable boat to sail, great cockpit with heaps of room, good wide sidedecks and they have a great galley. Aft cabin is super comfortable and the forward cabin is roomy so would be good for the kids. Your family will love the ladder and sugarscoop which gives easy access to the water. However, this could be a worry with a baby as the cockpit is open. The boat Datawiz mentioned is on Lake Macquarie and have been on board. I don't know what it is like now but at the time it was very well maintained. We used ours to sail between the Lake, Newcastle, Pittwater and Sydney and it was no problem for it. You can tie a dinghy onto the foredeck easily as there is heaps of room. I have added in a couple of pics of ours to show you the ladder access from the water and also one of our niece steering. One thing you do need to know about that big wide American rear is that if anchored in a slop she will slap and it can be a pain at night.
G'day,
I don't have any specific recommendations for brands of yacht, but I think for the type of sailing you are talking about most production boats would be more than adequate. It's more a matter of choosing what suits you & your family. They say that in a boat you can have any 2 of the following , but not all 3
Speed
Space
Low cost.
In our case we were sailing on a similar sheltered/coastal waterway to Batemans Bay, still racing sports boats when the kids came along. We soon realised this wouldn't work so purchased an old Holland 30 which was great at that time (3 kids under 5). When the kids were older and we wanted more room and performance we purchased a Northshore 369 the best things about this boat was fun to sail & heaps of deck space which worked for our family. It really just comes down to personal preference & what works for your situation, all boats are a compromise.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions over the last few days. I'll look at the ones you've suggested and posted also.
Here are a couple I'm keen for opinions on. I've not yet been on board.
Although production boats they appeal well to my wife & I and are a bit more 'little people' friendly. They are clean, light, close to budget & seem practical for what we are after. I realise they will not be capable offshore but that's not we are looking for just yet.
Any comments on reliability, sailing performance, common issues, things to watch out for, questions to ask broker, price point etc would be great. Summaries below:
Northshore 310 (1989)https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/northshore-310/221531
-vinyl ester resin so there should be no osmosis (so they say)
-Keel bots look to be in good condition
-engine is original 2800hrs
-H&C pressure water
-service history exists
-dodger getting old
-maintained to a high standard
-on boom furling main
-furling headsail
-hardwired solar panel with charge manager
-antifoul (Dec 17)
-steering system service (Dec 17)
-engine service (May 17)
-replace standing rigging (2016)
new main and headsail (2015),
new boom & wheel cover (2016)
-near new interior upholster
-no windlass fitted
-no autopilot
-possibly no shore power
Northshore 310 (1992)
www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1992-Northshore-Yachts-Northshore-310/SSE-AD-4913588
-new rig 2015 (standing & running)
-h&c pressure water
-no bimini
-cockpit speakers need replacing
-head furler needs replacing
-needs anti foul
Awaiting more details from broker
Beneteau First 32s5 (1989)
m.yoti.com.au/listing/beneteau-first-32s5-kulani
-presents extremely well and anyone -completely re-rigged 2015
-nicely stocked and updated wardrobe of both cruising and racing sails
-3bladed feathering stainless-steel Auto stream prop
-coach house/cabin top windows, all being in excellent condition.
The accommodation consists of two double cabins - both private with doors
-cushion covers original, great condition
-pressure hot & cold water
-Optimus gimbled 3 burner stove
-holding tank
-carbon tiller and sugar scoop stern
-SS fold out swim ladder
Awaiting reply from broker for more details
Many thanks
Select to expand quoteDatawiz said..
Hi mattthefrog,
As a happy Catalina 34 MKII 2 owner, I think this one listed by FreeRadical will meet all your requirements. Clean, light, airy, sails well, hot & cold water, shower, good galley, sugar scoop & boarding ladder makes getting in & out of the water easy, etc, etc
I'm sure the wife will love it.
Strap the dingy down on foredeck when at sea or tow it if conditions allow.
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/catalina-320/103480
regards,
Allan
Hi Allan
I sought details on this earlier in the week actually. Well above my price range at current price. See below summary.
How do Catalina's compare to say Northshore & Beneteau? They seem to have deeper draft
Broker summary;
-sound with no osmosis
-recently antifouled
-no leaks and the engine runs fine -service history of motor
-standing rigging is up for renewal
-sails are serviceable and overall she is in quite good nick for her age
-GPS could be replaced
thanks
