Select to expand quotewoko said..
"At anchor includes vessels secured to trees or other means of attachment to the shore or sea bed. "
I guess marinas wouldn't be one of those means of attachment ? So the 5 days at the laurieton wharf or the 24hrs on the pontoons in the Clarence etc, does that count as anchored ? Or as being in a marina ? I'm pretty sure that if you where hauled out that wouldn't count as anchored, tho you would still be attached to the shore, so how about if you where dried out on a sand bar ? Hmm the mention of dried out and bar has given me an idea !
but you paying too be at that L O V E R l Y Marina$$$$$ can't have you off anchoring any where you like the marina
industry pay's a lot of $$$$ to ow benevolent government:s
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
A Bluebird that escaped being blown up by that Australian TV show "Water Rats"!
Apparently so. Pity to see it go to waste; these are the perfect safe budget entry-level yacht. But it's getting harder and harder to even give things like this away.
Select to expand quoteoldtom said..woko said..
"At anchor includes vessels secured to trees or other means of attachment to the shore or sea bed. "
I guess marinas wouldn't be one of those means of attachment ? So the 5 days at the laurieton wharf or the 24hrs on the pontoons in the Clarence etc, does that count as anchored ? Or as being in a marina ? I'm pretty sure that if you where hauled out that wouldn't count as anchored, tho you would still be attached to the shore, so how about if you where dried out on a sand bar ? Hmm the mention of dried out and bar has given me an idea !
but you paying too be at that L O V E R l Y Marina$$$$$ can't have you off anchoring any where you like the marina
industry pay's a lot of $$$$ to ow benevolent government:s
"At anchor includes vessels secured to trees or other means of attachment to the shore or sea bed. "
By a long stretch of the imagination that could also include your very own mooring ...... You know, the one you pay a princely sum for every year.
Select to expand quoteLooseChange said..oldtom said..woko said..
"At anchor includes vessels secured to trees or other means of attachment to the shore or sea bed. "
I guess marinas wouldn't be one of those means of attachment ? So the 5 days at the laurieton wharf or the 24hrs on the pontoons in the Clarence etc, does that count as anchored ? Or as being in a marina ? I'm pretty sure that if you where hauled out that wouldn't count as anchored, tho you would still be attached to the shore, so how about if you where dried out on a sand bar ? Hmm the mention of dried out and bar has given me an idea !
but you paying too be at that L O V E R l Y Marina$$$$$ can't have you off anchoring any where you like the marina
industry pay's a lot of $$$$ to ow benevolent government:s
"At anchor includes vessels secured to trees or other means of attachment to the shore or sea bed. "
By a long stretch of the imagination that could also include your very own mooring ...... You know, the one you pay a princely sum for every year.
Exactly as I pointed out to the Maritime officer I met at the ramp the other day. 
My State MP has spoken to the RMS Minister last week and we are now waiting for a reply.
I did fully brief my MP so she would have given him a hard time I hope [think]?
Will post result as soon as I hear them.
Just saw this discussion. Sometimes these stupid laws get passed at midnight when all the pollies with brains have gone to the pub.
So say I buy a vessel that's been at anchor for 89 days by the previous owner. I've only got one day left right !!?
Actually LooseChange if you want to stretch your imagination that would also include marinas and piers and any thing including hard stands.
For what it's worth here is a copy of an email I sent to the BIA on the 21/11/17,
Linda, you may recall that I rang regarding a reference made to myself about time limits for boat use in NSW waters. I was informed that NSW Maritime have a limit on their books of 90 days at anchor per calendar year in NSW waters and 28 days per calendar year in any one place. Apparently any one place is defined as Sydney Harbour in it's entirety, broken bay in it's entirety including pitwater and god knows where else. My concern is that an over enthusiastic BSO could well penalize a regular boat owner simply for using their boat for 14 weekends per calendar year or, heaven forbid, 90 days whilst cruising the NSW coast. For what it's worth, the max penalty is listed as 50 penalty units, just for using your own boat. The current value of a penalty unit is $110.00. The reference for this information is Marine Safety Regulation 2016 part 2 > Division 4 > Clause 17A. Found at legislation.nsw.gov.au This on top of having to seek the approval of Maritime NSW to vacate the mooring for a period of more than 28 days!! I look forward to any comment the BIA may offer on this outrageous situation. Regards Robert
And this is the email I received that same day.
Hello Robert,Thank you for your email, which I have referred to the BIA CEO and GM Policy for their consideration and response.Regards,Linda
Given that to date there has been no further response from the BIA CEO or the GM Policy I can only assume that this topic is of no interest to them!
Shame given that if implemented as written and in conjunction with the deeming of entire waterway systems to be one place, this rule has the potential to severely impact not only members of the boating community, but marine service providers and manufacturers , that is members of the BIA.
Perhaps it is all too much for them !!
Now, off to lunch, a glass of chardonnay anyone ?
Bob.
The good news is that if you just raise your anchor and reset it, or detach your boat from it's mooring then reattach it, just once per day you haven't technically been anchored for a day, as a day has twenty four hours in it, if your not anchored for that 24 hrs continuously then the clock has to reset it's self as the law doesn't say, or part thereof when referring to a day.
Oh and don't forget to write it in the boats log book so you have proof that that's what you did and when.
Hi Bob, well done on the eMail. I think the problem is the opposite of 'no interest' .What you've done is
sprung them on unfair legislation and now they're running around like chooks with no heads wondering
what they're going to do about it. The reason government responses are always delayed is because of
the buck passing. They need to blame someone...anyone...and hopefully when they do ( blaming the previous government will do)
then they'll amend the legislation and take the credit for being the 'good guys'. At least, lets hope it works
out like that.
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..
For what it's worth here is a copy of an email I sent to the BIA on the 21/11/17,
Linda, you may recall that I rang regarding a reference made to myself about time limits for boat use in NSW waters. I was informed that NSW Maritime have a limit on their books of 90 days at anchor per calendar year in NSW waters and 28 days per calendar year in any one place. Apparently any one place is defined as Sydney Harbour in it's entirety, broken bay in it's entirety including pitwater and god knows where else. My concern is that an over enthusiastic BSO could well penalize a regular boat owner simply for using their boat for 14 weekends per calendar year or, heaven forbid, 90 days whilst cruising the NSW coast. For what it's worth, the max penalty is listed as 50 penalty units, just for using your own boat. The current value of a penalty unit is $110.00. The reference for this information is Marine Safety Regulation 2016 part 2 > Division 4 > Clause 17A. Found at legislation.nsw.gov.au This on top of having to seek the approval of Maritime NSW to vacate the mooring for a period of more than 28 days!! I look forward to any comment the BIA may offer on this outrageous situation. Regards Robert
And this is the email I received that same day.
Hello Robert,Thank you for your email, which I have referred to the BIA CEO and GM Policy for their consideration and response.Regards,Linda
Given that to date there has been no further response from the BIA CEO or the GM Policy I can only assume that this topic is of no interest to them!
Shame given that if implemented as written and in conjunction with the deeming of entire waterway systems to be one place, this rule has the potential to severely impact not only members of the boating community, but marine service providers and manufacturers , that is members of the BIA.
Perhaps it is all too much for them !!
Now, off to lunch, a glass of chardonnay anyone ?
Bob.
As some of you know I make the Trek Transponder boat monitor. I contacted BIA (by fax and email) because I thought membership would be appropriate. I got no reply whatsoever. Then I checked their membership list. Very small and not impressive. They dont represent boating industry at all as far as I can see. Who knows why they grandly call themselves BIA when they dont. 
Was looking at a boat that has been "beached" with someone living on it.. do u think that beaching is considered a method of attaching ones self to the ocean floor?
Select to expand quotesamsturdy said..
The reason government responses are always delayed is because of
the buck passing. They need to blame someone...anyone...and hopefully when they do ( blaming the previous government will do)
then they'll amend the legislation and take the credit for being the 'good guys'. At least, lets hope it works
out like that.
I spent a little while working in govt before jumping out. To be fair to the people low down the food chain of govt, in my experience they are NOT passing the buck. What happens is that all the power is dragged up the ladder because the people on top (1) don't trust the people they hired, which is stupid since they should not create an organisation that doesn't create competent staff; (2) want more power because that looks better on their CV when they go for the next job.
But yes, hiding a f**kup by letting people think it was the other side's fault works well. I was once hired to perfect a new Commonwealth law they'd been working on for years. After four days I had to tell them that their new law had two problems; one that it wasn't going to work and two that it was illegal. They managed to keep that quiet until an election, and then slid the altered law onto the desk of the new Minister who didn't realise they had screwed up.
On the other hand, they are still human and most of us would also stuff up in some ways, being also human.
Trek So say I buy a vessel that's been at anchor for 89 days by the previous owner. I've only got one day left right !!? As it stands YES, you would have to go at over 2nm out to sea to reset the 90 day limit.
Bruski068 Actually LooseChange if you want to stretch your imagination that would also include marinas and piers and any thing including hard stands
You don't have to, a good lawyer would make it so!
Oh and a day is not defined so a good Govt lawyer would walk all over you, the key word is anchored!
patto1987 yes as the law states by any means, so a beached boat would not escape.
Over the last two days I have spoken to the Northern Manager for RMS Marine [about a boat that hit me in Port Stephens over a year ago, but that's another story] and during our conservation the '28 days off your mooring rule' came up and I asked him how he would feel if he had to apply to the RMS to have his caravan off his property for over 28 days if he wanted to go on holidays...there was silence
I then mentioned that his officers were hassling yachties up north about the 28 days in one place but not warning anchored fishing boats or the coal boats off Newcastle. I think he was a bit stunned, I suggested he should back off a bit as there were political moves afoot re the rule 17. We parted on good terms but I think he had no idea of the coming storm about this regulation.
I heard nothing today from my local MP, so maybe next week?
Hi all
Seems this rule is enforced in some areas but ignored in others. Take a look to your right next time you cross the Anzac Bridge (Sydney/City bound). Black Wattle Bay is a popular place for liveaboards due to it's very calm water state, There has been the same few yachts anchored there for literally months...exemption/special permission/paper bag full of cash?/ who knows...
Despite the fact that I dislike rules applying to some but not to others it annoys me that I can't anchor there and dinghy in to the fish markets as there's not enough room...sigh!
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
Trek So say I buy a vessel that's been at anchor for 89 days by the previous owner. I've only got one day left right !!? As it stands YES, you would have to go at over 2nm out to sea to reset the 90 day limit.
Bruski068 Actually LooseChange if you want to stretch your imagination that would also include marinas and piers and any thing including hard stands
You don't have to, a good lawyer would make it so!
Oh and a day is not defined so a good Govt lawyer would walk all over you, the key word is anchored!
patto1987 yes as the law states by any means, so a beached boat would not escape.
Over the last two days I have spoken to the Northern Manager for RMS Marine [about a boat that hit me in Port Stephens over a year ago, but that's another story] and during our conservation the '28 days off your mooring rule' came up and I asked him how he would feel if he had to apply to the RMS to have his caravan off his property for over 28 days if he wanted to go on holidays...there was silence
I then mentioned that his officers were hassling yachties up north about the 28 days in one place but not warning anchored fishing boats or the coal boats off Newcastle. I think he was a bit stunned, I suggested he should back off a bit as there were political moves afoot re the rule 17. We parted on good terms but I think he had no idea of the coming storm about this regulation.
I heard nothing today from my local MP, so maybe next week?
Nswsailor, I have not read anywhere in or near Rule:17, about resetting the 90 days by going 2nm offshore, can you elaborate?, cheers
Gidday all.
i think recently ive come onto the radar as ive been anchored in various places on the nsw coast the last few months. Kia Kaha's final resting spot where im keeping her and not moving for a while from is Jervis Bay- Curembene creek.
I was anchored there for maybe 10 days until the BO from the region called me and chatted to me about these laws. So it didnt take long for them to know and then remind me that i could be subject to fines if i didnt sort something out within the time allowed to anchor in one place.
I have a great mooring in Wollamia now so the pressures off. It could be a case of it being a very popular, busy spot thus the BO being extra vigilant, but this experience lead me to believe that they would want to enforce this law.
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..
Gidday all.
i think recently ive come onto the radar as ive been anchored in various places on the nsw coast the last few months. Kia Kaha's final resting spot where im keeping her and not moving for a while from is Jervis Bay- Curembene creek.
I was anchored there for maybe 10 days until the BO from the region called me and chatted to me about these laws. So it didnt take long for them to know and then remind me that i could be subject to fines if i didnt sort something out within the time allowed to anchor in one place.
I have a great mooring in Wollamia now so the pressures off. It could be a case of it being a very popular, busy spot thus the BO being extra vigilant, but this experience lead me to believe that they would want to enforce this law.
Didn't your parents teach you not to talk to strangers, it never turns out well.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..nswsailor said..
Trek So say I buy a vessel that's been at anchor for 89 days by the previous owner. I've only got one day left right !!? As it stands YES, you would have to go at over 2nm out to sea to reset the 90 day limit.
Bruski068 Actually LooseChange if you want to stretch your imagination that would also include marinas and piers and any thing including hard stands
You don't have to, a good lawyer would make it so!
Oh and a day is not defined so a good Govt lawyer would walk all over you, the key word is anchored!
patto1987 yes as the law states by any means, so a beached boat would not escape.
Over the last two days I have spoken to the Northern Manager for RMS Marine [about a boat that hit me in Port Stephens over a year ago, but that's another story] and during our conservation the '28 days off your mooring rule' came up and I asked him how he would feel if he had to apply to the RMS to have his caravan off his property for over 28 days if he wanted to go on holidays...there was silence
I then mentioned that his officers were hassling yachties up north about the 28 days in one place but not warning anchored fishing boats or the coal boats off Newcastle. I think he was a bit stunned, I suggested he should back off a bit as there were political moves afoot re the rule 17. We parted on good terms but I think he had no idea of the coming storm about this regulation.
I heard nothing today from my local MP, so maybe next week?
Nswsailor, I have not read anywhere in or near Rule:17, about resetting the 90 days by going 2nm offshore, can you elaborate?, cheers
Some one said it Bluemoon, must have been on facbok as I cannot find it anymore, must be a furphy 
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..
For what it's worth here is a copy of an email I sent to the BIA on the 21/11/17,
Linda, you may recall that I rang regarding a reference made to myself about time limits for boat use in NSW waters. I was informed that NSW Maritime have a limit on their books of 90 days at anchor per calendar year in NSW waters and 28 days per calendar year in any one place. Apparently any one place is defined as Sydney Harbour in it's entirety, broken bay in it's entirety including pitwater and god knows where else. My concern is that an over enthusiastic BSO could well penalize a regular boat owner simply for using their boat for 14 weekends per calendar year or, heaven forbid, 90 days whilst cruising the NSW coast. For what it's worth, the max penalty is listed as 50 penalty units, just for using your own boat. The current value of a penalty unit is $110.00. The reference for this information is Marine Safety Regulation 2016 part 2 > Division 4 > Clause 17A. Found at legislation.nsw.gov.au This on top of having to seek the approval of Maritime NSW to vacate the mooring for a period of more than 28 days!! I look forward to any comment the BIA may offer on this outrageous situation. Regards Robert
And this is the email I received that same day.
Hello Robert,Thank you for your email, which I have referred to the BIA CEO and GM Policy for their consideration and response.Regards,Linda
Given that to date there has been no further response from the BIA CEO or the GM Policy I can only assume that this topic is of no interest to them!
Shame given that if implemented as written and in conjunction with the deeming of entire waterway systems to be one place, this rule has the potential to severely impact not only members of the boating community, but marine service providers and manufacturers , that is members of the BIA.
Perhaps it is all too much for them !!
Now, off to lunch, a glass of chardonnay anyone ?
Bob.
If someone who is a good speaker is interested the CEO of the BIA Dominic Genoa has a regular spot on 2GB on a Saturday evening maybe call in or send them an email to mention it.
nswsailor said..
Trek So say I buy a vessel that's been at anchor for 89 days by the previous owner. I've only got one day left right !!? As it stands YES, you would have to go at over 2nm out to sea to reset the 90 day limit.
Generally a States territory extends 3 Nm offshore. Then there is another zone roughly to the continental shelf where the states have oil and gas rights etc, then it is the Federal government to 200 Km mark.
You would need a solicitor and probably a court ruling, to say if you went 3+ Nm off shore you left the state?
Select to expand quoteAgent nods said..
nswsailor said..
Trek So say I buy a vessel that's been at anchor for 89 days by the previous owner. I've only got one day left right !!? As it stands YES, you would have to go at over 2nm out to sea to reset the 90 day limit.
Generally a States territory extends 3 Nm offshore. Then there is another zone roughly to the continental shelf where the states have oil and gas rights etc, then it is the Federal government to 200 Km mark.
You would need a solicitor and probably a court ruling, to say if you went 3+ Nm off shore you left the state?
Agree 
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..
Gidday all.
i think recently ive come onto the radar as ive been anchored in various places on the nsw coast the last few months. Kia Kaha's final resting spot where im keeping her and not moving for a while from is Jervis Bay- Curembene creek.
I was anchored there for maybe 10 days until the BO from the region called me and chatted to me about these laws. So it didnt take long for them to know and then remind me that i could be subject to fines if i didnt sort something out within the time allowed to anchor in one place.
I have a great mooring in Wollamia now so the pressures off. It could be a case of it being a very popular, busy spot thus the BO being extra vigilant, but this experience lead me to believe that they would want to enforce this law.
The local BO is a particular nice bloke and switched on to the goings on with local boats. He knows who is who. I notice today that he has joined my GP facebook page too so he can keep tabs on us! Strange that the boats causing all the concern locally recently have dark blue or black hulls [4 of them]. This law was introduced so they have some power over the trouble makers. If there was no trouble I'm sure they would not care how long you anchored. In your case one of the local pensioners probably complained. Same with a local liveaboard here, soon as he got a mooring all the problems went away. His mooring is out of sight from the pensioners living on the waterfront. It's the pensioners who don't want boats anchored and spoiling their view that is causing all this angst.
Yes they do need laws to stop the trouble makers,however the troublemaker livaboard that is now illegally ( in nsw anyway) living on his mooring is now a fine outstanding member of the community because he moved from that nice area away from view ? Some thing is not quite right here from my viewpoint. The troublemakers as said are not the yachties doing the right thing, living below the radar and not causing trouble , my concern is what happens if the BO does not like you or your boat ( I have a manitou 32 so you understand my concern ) for reference my local BO is fine and I have had no problems even when using the public wharf for 3 days to do some work on my boat.i do make sure there is room for other boats to dock and when it's full hold the fishos boats for them while they retrieve their trailers so there are no complaints.The 28 day thing for me is not a major issue you move on and some one else can move in for a while ( blackwattle bay a fine example) it's the 90 day get out of the state that is troubling for me.
my boat was anchored right away from any house. nearest house was about 500m away so I doubt someone complained. Also complaining people doesnt = "right" we have lost it in Australia in this regard pandering to the whims of complainers.
I have found everyone - including the BO and the residents to be incredibly nice, helpful and friendly around Curembene. This is a good thing especially as there seems to be alot of thieving that goes on around there.
"visual amenity of the waterways"...
Well at least the commercial interests and local residents are taken into consideration. I understand wanting to move the rotting hulks and people with mental issues but this is wrong for all the reasons already pointed out above. What a joke.
yeah 90 days seems reasonable to me . from what ive read here , the need to travel 2 k off shore to reset ,would help insure the SV are ere kept in seaworthy condition as well .
I got no problem with any anchored boat kept in good nick and on a cruise. Liveaboard or not.
However, l got a serious issue with boats occupying the 24 hour courtesy moorings repeatedly week after week for days and days, continuously, like the cat Barefoot does in Middle Harbour, while the BO is turning a blind eye forever.
They make the rules and then if their interest requires it, apply it at a whim, otherwise there is no rules, no law, nothing. It just sux.
