Hi all, I'm in the windy state of North Dakota, USA and building my second rig. I've been looking at all of the designs on this forum and I am impressed. I'm making my version of a mini sailer. I'm to the point of attaching the mast step but wonder at what angle. I still don't have a mast and sail yet since I'm about as far from open water as one can be. Perhaps I should wait until I acquire a mast or build one. I've attached a few pics so the pros can give me some advice or pick it apart.
The bigger one with the beautiful wooden seat is my original from 17 years ago. It works surprisingly well.
Hello there and welcome......
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Build-a-Landyacht-Lake-Lefroy-Mini-Yacht/
Here are some plans for the Lake Lefroy Mini yacht for some ideas, the mast rake in the plans is VERY hard to find but in the plans for that yacht is 10 deg but people are now preferring now Zero deg (at right angle from the yacht spine).
Just another idea to add additional strength to run a strap of steel from one side of the mast step under the spine and around to the other side and welded on.
Is often very easy to find used and surplus masts & sails from sailboards often at very low cost if you look in second hand internet adds in your local area.
I've chopped up my old yellow rig and trying to make improvements. Lower seated position. less length. less weight. Just trying to figure out the steering without being able to try it first. I liked my old foot pedals but they were a bit bulky.
Please be mindful of one of the problems of 'soft seats'... You are traveling at speed with the base of your spine less than 50mm from the ground surface.
Be careful a spinal injury could be life changing....
I think I've finished my steering. It worked well rolling down the driveway with my wife pushing me! Wish I had a pic of that.
Now on to my mast step. How much space is best between the mast and inside of tube? The tube I have found leaves about 2.5-3mm gap. Any thoughts?
That will work fine but you should flare the top end of the tube so the mast does not press against a sharp edge.
As per the image below
You dont really want it any closer as, if you get grit in it, it can jam in place! An easy fix is to get a length of motor bike inner tube to cover the "join" taping it to the mast. When disassembling pull the lower section up the mast. Also put drain holes in bottom of mast support tube!
You claim to be in the "windy state"! Has that something to do with the hearty consumption of beans?
I do love the musical fruit but the wind is mostly because we have very few trees up here on the plains.
My next question; how tall should the mast step be? I suppose the minimum height is the important measurement. I hope the get the step welded on this afternoon and place the mast and sail to get a look at her as a whole. I also found a pic of my old yellow rig before I chopped her up. The sail looks quite small compared to the windsurf sails I have now.
here she is with a 4.4 sail. I was hoping to not have to modify the sail right away so if I read some posts correctly, I can extend the top of the mast by sliding a tube of some sort over. Do I have to reinforce the top portion of the mast?
You are on to it you can extend the top of the mast with a tube Some have used vacuum cleaner tube!
I have used thinwall alum tube successfully
I put on a smaller uncut sail and then hooked up a 2000 pound ratchet strap. Holy cow! it takes a ton of force to get the sail set right. This is assuming I did get it close to its correct position. I took a pic up at the sail while seated to see how the sail sits. I would be very thankful for any thoughts on this matter. With such a powerful downhaul mechanism needed maybe I need to use a windsurf boom in stead of an under sail boom. I think an under sail boom would not fit near the mast with heavy downhaul strap or rope. Is this another reason to cut sails? To reduce the amount of downhaul needed? I'm very nervous to try and cut a sail without being able to see one in person.
I should explain that the places I will be able to sail are large parking lots and maybe some grassy fields so I'm thinking I will need more power than top speed. I am envious of those large dry lake beds and salt flats I see on this forum.
Uncut Windsurf sails do take a lot of luff tension ! If you attach the tack of the sail to the top of the boom and the downhaul to the bottom of the boom at the tack you can fit a conventional boom in The boom does not necessarily have to fit to a gooseneck on the mast, the strap and buckle you have there should be fine.
You may or may not want to shorten that bottom batten to allow the sail to clear the boom.
Large fuller sails are what you want for draggy surfaces to get you going Works like a lower gear
Parking lots are relatively smooth That rig should work in a decent breeze
Having spent a fair bit of time recently sorting out uncut windsurfer sails I must say your ratchet strap is a very cool solution and should work just fine. One reason your pulling so much tension may be that the mast doesn't match the sail. Its clear that your mast is much longer than the sail and therefore stiffer. If you used a shorter softer mast you wouldn't need as much tension. But hey if it works then do it. If you rip the sail in half then try a softer mast next time.
As Hiko said attach your boom to the tack then downhaul the boom would work or you could just connect the boom to the tack eyelet that way it might move a bit easier.
One concern with what I see is the fact that your downhaul is some distance behind the mast may make it slower to dum wind when you ease the sheet rope but that will vary depending on the sail and downhaul tension. Might not be an issue, practice will tell.
Wow what a difference extra length makes! (insert dirty joke here) I added some aluminum tube to the top of the mast and my 4.4 sail seems to set great and easily. I will have to try my 5.5 next. Sylk, I hear you about the how the downhaul is attached. It was just a crude set up to give me the power I needed to set the small sail. I hope to find something smaller with the same power to use as my downhaul. I am happy that it seems I wont have to modify the fundamental shape of my sails except for maybe adding to the clew? Even I can't screw that up. I wish I had somewhere to test the rig but we are in the middle of winter up here. The snow is gone in the pics because we have had a week of above freezing temps for some reason but that will be gone shortly.
Boom and clew question: In the pic, would an outhaul line like the yellow line work without adding the extra clew material (the orange area)? or do I need to add the extra clew area and use an outhaul line like the green line?
That will work One of my sails is like that but I have added a webbing loop from the clew straight down to the boom as well
this gives a bit better control for the outhaul The outhaul is just an outhaul then and not trying to hold the boom up as well
against the mainsheet load
The only difference is a slight loss of area and a slight loss of aerodynamics I think
That sail looks nice you could maybe lower it a little for a lower centre of effort
dipping your head a little in the tacks is no hardship and/or lay your seat back as well
Sorry to keep asking all these questions. I tried to set my 5.0 sail and it doesn't seem right. I cranked the hell out of the ratchet strap and there still are alot of waves compared to my 4.4 orange sail. Maybe the flexibility of my mast is too far off? I don't know what the numbers on my mast mean as far as flex. I will be picking up a couple more sails and 3 masts this weekend so maybe one of them will work better.
Windsurf masts and sails have rating numbers so they can be matched up and are usually marked
If your mast has no markings there are ways to find out what the stiffness numbers are by doing simple weight tests
On the net there are postings with all the info you need which is an advantage to using standard windsurf
gear
Why are you using JUST downhaul to shape the sail?
To shape a sail you need to use outhaul, AND downhaul.
^^^^ this... outhauling the sail will cause the mast to conform to the sail. cheers!
A MODERN windsurfer sail and mast does NOT need outhaul to shape/set the sail.
It does need outhaul to set the cams (if cammed) If your using modern gear look up a somthing like the Unifiber mast selector to determin what type of mast to use with what type of sail. Then use the correct length mast for said sail.
www.unifiber.net/masts-selector
But I wouln't wory about any of that **** unless your looking for high end performance.
Your mast and sail are not modern, looked like a bit of outhaul might have helped but dont wory too much yet. As you say your learning, just get it looking sort of right then go and sail.
^^^^ "A MODERN windsurfer sail and mast does NOT need outhaul to shape/set the sail."
?????? Really. I would love to see some proof of that.
GIZMO, have a look at my Avatar pic, there is effectivly no outhaul on when the pic was taken.
Select to expand quoteGizmo said..
^^^^ "A MODERN windsurfer sail and mast does NOT need outhaul to shape/set the sail."
?????? Really. I would love to see some proof of that.
That shows you have never been exposed to windsurfing trends and sail design for the last decade or so. Outhaul tension is really only used to stabilize the boom.
I have seen sails that have no outhaul at all just a loop around the boom
I think the lower batten does all the outhaul necessary
Come on guys please show how you can get a variable draft sail without the use of an outhaul?
I'm sure there a lot of people on the forum would like to know how.
Rather than making flippant remarks.
Land yachts sails are quite different than water yacht sails, Land yachts make a far greater use of apparent wind than sailboards and other water yachts do. So if you are sailing with a 'fixed' draft sail you are doing yourself a disservice.
So unless wind / air movement and the physics of sailing has substantially changed the extensive research I have done over many years would still be current.
Yes altho I haven't been involved in high performance sailboarding for many years I still have an interest in the sport.
Oh by the way one of my kids has a Double Uni Degree in Aeronautics & Design / Management and currently doing a Masters degree in Engineering, and currently employed by one of the world big companies in this area. (which is really good when you need some numbers crunched or designs checked) 
