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Newbie - Lessons learned so far...

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Created by SaltySinus > 9 months ago, 8 Nov 2012
SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
27 Nov 2012 12:50PM
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Thanks arloj,

yes, right of way is starting to get some attention now given I can actually move, albeit in one direction...

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
4 Dec 2012 2:17PM
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As a newbie, I love really really light winds that nobody else would waste their time going out in. This is partly because there's no one else out there to psych me out, and partly because with great wind, comes great amounts of my being pulled over the board due to lack of skill (this is being worked on).

Anyway, there have been a couple of times when walking back up wind (as I can't go up wind yet) the kite has started to fall out the sky due to lack of wind.

This is scary especially as there are all sorts of things that can ruin your kite when you're walking on the beach (bushes, palm trees, people, etc.). There is a cure.

Now, I know this is probably obvious to anyone that has flown a kite as a kid, or has seen the now infamous scene in Mary Poppins where they do at last, fly a kite. But anyway, if you find yourself in light winds and the kite dropping from the sky, the answer is, 'Run away from it'. Ideally in the opposite direction.

This helps to keep the lines and kite taught and generates lift in the kite. please check it's safe to do so.

Next update: Powered Running with a kite.

arloj
WA, 237 posts
4 Dec 2012 11:20AM
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How's the waterstarts going salty? Good success rate?

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
4 Dec 2012 6:10PM
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Howdy arloj, thanks for the question!

So, they're good to my left hand side. I think this is because a.) 9/10, I've had the shore on my right so I've been launching away from it and b.) I'm right foot dominant so I'm stronger/more coordinated with this leg.

The main thing that has helped the progress has been a.) a number of good people on this site suggestion one problem I'm having is going too directly down wind (which causes me to loose power in the kite and for it to depower + launching too quickly) and b.) repetition.

I've made slight progress on launching to my right, but not much. Very similar to the problems I experienced launching to my left...

My main focus is learning to edge on my left and smooth water starts to my right (it still feels like I'm trying to write my hand with my left hand!).

Scroty
NSW, 8 posts
6 Dec 2012 12:58PM
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I am having my first lessons at the moment, and there was one thing that I have not read about anywhere that I found important.

My previous practice kiting was with small 2 liners with no harness. I kept expecting to feel the power come through my arms. It was a bit of a change to concentrate on the pull through the harness instead. I got caught out and unexpectedly launched a few times. The instructor had hold of me and I think he thought I was doing it on purpose and didn't seem worried.

Anyway, completely first principal stuff that everyone else may have forgotten, but worth keeping in mind for your first fly with a harness kite.

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
6 Dec 2012 1:47PM
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Yeah good point Scroty.

One thing I was doing when water starting is to use my arms to pull me out of the water when water starting, rather then rely on the pull from your harness.

Takes some getting used to... and I still forget sometimes... but I'm not very bright.

Good luck with the lessons... and feel free to keep the posts coming.

KiteBud
WA, 1598 posts
6 Dec 2012 11:13AM
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Scroty said...
I am having my first lessons at the moment, and there was one thing that I have not read about anywhere that I found important.

My previous practice kiting was with small 2 liners with no harness. I kept expecting to feel the power come through my arms. It was a bit of a change to concentrate on the pull through the harness instead. I got caught out and unexpectedly launched a few times. The instructor had hold of me and I think he thought I was doing it on purpose and didn't seem worried.

Anyway, completely first principal stuff that everyone else may have forgotten, but worth keeping in mind for your first fly with a harness kite.




it's great to get that kind of feed-back from a student. Many instructors and experienced kiters will say something along the lines of: ''fly a trainer kite for many hours and you'll be progressing much faster in your lessons'.

IMO a trainer kite is great to understand the wind window, power zones, neutral zones and what makes the kite turn left and right. This can be learned with a trainer kite in a matter of minutes up to maybe 2-3 hours for someone with poor coordination. After that any extra flying time may result in what you experienced, meaning you memorize those movements so much diving the kite through the power zone and feeling constant strong bar pressure that when you move to a larger inflatable depowerable kite you have to un-learn these habits and learn different ones. This is not only dangerous (diving a larger inflatable kite in the power zone hurts) but can actually slow down your learning.

thanks for sharing.

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
12 Dec 2012 2:41PM
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Okay, so, if like me you spend 2 mins going down wind and 30mins walking back up wind because you can't edge, now is a good time to perfect your walking/running with a kite.

I noticed when walking back up wind fighting my fully depowered kite, I was really wrestling with it, whist a guy up wind of me was sprinting away. So I practiced and realised that one can run up wind with the kite, by:

1.) putting the kite around 10.30 O'clock (so to speak)
2.) leaning against the kite so the lines are approximately 90degrees to one's leaning body
3.) pulling on the bar to maintain enough power to keep you from falling over.

I'm not sure why this is easier than just pulling a kite up wind. I dare say it's because you're accelerating the kite across the wind window hence less resistence.

Anyway, you should be able to run with the kite back to the starting point, giving you more time on the water practicing your edging, so you don't need to run back up wind in the first place!

Gorgo
VIC, 5097 posts
12 Dec 2012 3:49PM
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There are two ways to get better faster:

1. Do a relatively long downwinder. You get to spend an hour just kiting back and forth without wasting all that time walking back upwind. That is how all the old school people learned. There are quite a few safety issues you need to sort out (beibng able to relaunch, beaches to land on, getting back to the start, etc etc)

2. Get an experienced kiter to ride with you and just follow them around. That is a technique used in snowboarding and we've done it with a mate's son. We had him going upwind on his third session.

Dave Whettingsteel
WA, 1397 posts
12 Dec 2012 6:55PM
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Those are 2 really good tips!
As a newby I wasted too much time worrying about (and not achieving ) staying up wind. Now a few months down the track and happily going where I want, I realize its all about working the kite to suit the conditions and getting a feeling for it all.

The 2nd tip is even better.... It's basic ski/snowboard tactic to learn by example. A bit harder to orchestrate in kiting, but with a sympathetic lead kiter, it would be a brilliant way to help leaners get a feel for it.

I personally found it a pretty huge leap from lessons with someone in the water with me, to being completely on my own. I got there, but it tested my confidence for sure.

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
13 Dec 2012 10:59AM
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Gorgo said...
There are two ways to get better faster:

...

2. Get an experienced kiter to ride with you and just follow them around. That is a technique used in snowboarding and we've done it with a mate's son. We had him going upwind on his third session.


Well, I'm very open to people volunteering their time to show me! I'm certainly not too proud! Anyone? ;-)

VentoWa
WA, 5 posts
15 Dec 2012 11:47AM
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Well I might be a little bit late on the topic but I came to express my happines coz finally, after a couple of hard sessions, I can waterstart 4 out of 5 times, which I consider a good achievement for me. I can definitely go downwind on my left, really out of balance, I mean really! Lol and for some reasons it seems that with my right side it tends to be less painful. I must say thank you guys for all this comments about your own experiences, step by step, improvements in each session. It motivated me to go down there and overcome the massive gap that is to finish your lessons and go on your own, some will find it easier but unfortunately it wasnt for me. Well so thats it. Now working to keep a decent balance and reach that feeling that just the kite can give you!

BoardGirl
QLD, 248 posts
17 Dec 2012 10:43AM
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It's great that you guys are all really supportive of each other. :-)

I have only been kiting since April and this week it all clicked, have been riding upwind / downwind and have started to nail some of my sliding turns - not all but the success rate is increasing.

Time on the water is of the essence and watching your Beginner DVD's etc to gain a better understanding of board and kite positions is essential.

Believe me, it will just click. I was out on the water yesterday and it occured to me that waterstarting was once an issue and now it just happens without very much thought at all. You will get there before you know it. Relax and enjoy yourselves.

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
17 Dec 2012 2:09PM
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Hey guys, keep the positivity coming! I think I've had a minor breakthrough at the weekend as I was concentrating on my stance more... that said, I only had 12knots at best to play with so was struggling to keep the momentum...

Thanks to the experienced guys who have commented and provided their input and suggestions...

Phoney
NSW, 608 posts
18 Dec 2012 10:39AM
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Gorgo said...
There are two ways to get better faster:

1. Do a relatively long downwinder. You get to spend an hour just kiting back and forth without wasting all that time walking back upwind. That is how all the old school people learned. There are quite a few safety issues you need to sort out (beibng able to relaunch, beaches to land on, getting back to the start, etc etc)


This is a good tip. Particularly for those of you in Sydney & kiting in Botany Bay.

I battled one afternoon at Dolls point in a southerly kiting in and out in and out for 5 mins, then walking back up the beach for 20 mins and getting completely knackered in the process.

Then I met a friendly old hand who suggested that rather than walking back up the beach, keep going down the beach for the next 5 kilometres all the way down until where there are other kiters who can help you land down on the beach. Deflate your kite and wrap it around your board, keep $5 in your boardies to buy yourself a cold drink and a bus ticket back up the road to your car.

So I did that the following day and I probably kited more in that hour than I had in the previous half a dozen sessions. Got some funny looks when I got on the bus dripping wet in wetsuit carrying a board & a kite though

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
18 Dec 2012 10:55AM
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Thanks Phoney, and I'm keen as mustard to do that. Does anyone know how/where one could do that in Victoria?

Maybe Mornington to Rosebud (dodging the Spirit...)? Is there a bus?

Gippy13
VIC, 119 posts
18 Dec 2012 12:06PM
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hey mate, inverloch in the right conditions would be perfect for that. You just start at the front beach and make you're way in towards the fishing club. Would be Easier to explain with a map. But just leave your gear at the fishing club and hitch a ride back to the beach to grab your car- on a busy kiting day heaps of people would be more than willing to do that- I've hitched a couple times, and the locals didn't mind at all. You'd be looking for a strong SW Breeze at about mid tide

Gippy13
VIC, 119 posts
18 Dec 2012 12:14PM
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SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
18 Dec 2012 12:37PM
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Gippy13 said...





Gippy, you're awesome. Thank you for the recommendation!

What happens at low tide? Is the channel too narrow, or is it too shallow to board at all?

Is there a bus as a backup?


Peterdj
VIC, 139 posts
18 Dec 2012 1:14PM
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Great reading everyone.
After two years of waiting and practicing on a 3.5mtr trainer im in for my first lesson the week after xmas in geelong.
Cant wait but i know its going to be hard. So reading about where the kite pulls from is the harness rather than the arms that im used to will be good to keep in my head.

Gippy13
VIC, 119 posts
18 Dec 2012 1:27PM
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yeh it turns into a channel in the inlet there, and if you're a bit worried about sandbars and proximity to them you might fin it hairy. For all you adrenalin seekers, they make good hurdles ;)

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
19 Dec 2012 10:53AM
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Roger... sounds like this could make for some fun, impromptu beachings of the board....

I'm in.

toma
VIC, 20 posts
19 Dec 2012 1:29PM
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This is a really great thread keep it going!

I'm a beginner and live in Melbourne but the family has a property about half an hour from Inverloch. I've kited there once in a SSE starting near the holiday park. It seemed the tide and amount of people out there conspired to make it a bit of a dud session. So I would say check the tide because you could end up being quite limited by all the sandbars in the inlet.

I've been swimming about where you suggested to start that downwinder Gippy and the surf there seems like it wouldn't be great for beginners, I've seen guys kiting around the entrance to the inlet but they all seemed pretty pro. Do you think a beginner could manage it or is there a protected part around there that I didn't see?

Another tip from personal experience is if you're going second hand to spend as much as possible on a first kite (to a point). I was 15 when I started and bought all my gear and my budget was as you would expect; pocket money. I went for a $400 kite (from memory), a 2007 Liquid Force Havoc which is essentially a bridled C-kite (=painful relaunch and less stability compared to hybrids and bows), it came to me with a leaky valve and I had to replace the entire LE bladder. As a newbie to the sport it really slowed my progression down having all that wasted money, so go as new as you can afford without putting too much money into a sport you're only new at.

Sorry for bringing the mood down, the good thing is I'm flogging as much as I can from the old girl before retiring her and buying a new kite to kick things off properly!

doolla
NSW, 20 posts
20 Dec 2012 1:21AM
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I was just having a browse on this topic, noticed the discussion on going upwind and I thought i'd just add to salty's suggestion of going to a cable park.

When I started kiting it was painful but I had the very useful advantage of having spent a lot of time wakeboarding or at a cable park. Sorting out the kite is hard enough, without having to learn how to ride a board while doing it.

Having the board skills made going upwind possible within 2-3 sessions once id worked out how to use the kite basically.

My take on it was, and still is, if you want to go upwind, edge as hard as the kite will allow. ie edge too hard with insufficient power, and you'll just slow down to a point where the board will stop planing. if you feel this happening, point the board downwind a bit, get your speed up and then try again, but edge a bit less. if the wind is insufficient, you'll have to work the kite or go slightly downwind to keep your speed up. if the wind is too strong it will pull you downwind! There may be some other things in there like where the kite sits in the window when edging too hard etc but my understanding isnt that great.

if the wind is strong enough, just park the kite at 45deg and edge. if its too strong, holding it up closer to 12 o'clock lessens the pull downwind, but has the side effect of lifting you off the water, potentially hindering your board's effectiveness.

Spending time at a cable park gives you the chance to practice basic board skills but also edging, and edging hard both ways! Nail that basic skill and you'll be upwind in no time, its just understanding the relationship between the kite's power and the board's drag when edging/going downwind.

Just my take on it. Im still pretty new so some of that might not be great advice, but its how it seemed to work in my mind when I got the hang of it.. Obviously useless advice for anyone who doesnt have a cable park nearby! In that case, time under the kite is all you have!

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
20 Dec 2012 2:05PM
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doolla, upwind in 2-3 sessions?!!! Wow, I'm still struggling with it, and I'd say I've been out probably 10+ times!

I'm going away to hang my head in shame!

Thanks for the feedback and positivity!

KIT33R
NSW, 1716 posts
20 Dec 2012 4:16PM
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Good thread guys. On the topic of downwinders - This is a great way to get time on the water without having to work up wind (wind or foot power) - consider teaming up and leave a car at the downwind finishing spot. Then get everyone to pile into the car for a return to the starting point. Saves a long walk or a bus trip.

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
20 Dec 2012 4:37PM
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Thanks Kitter. Sounds like there's money to be made there...

$20 gets you an all day shuttle bus pass back up wind... Anyone?

Dave Whettingsteel
WA, 1397 posts
20 Dec 2012 10:13PM
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SaltySinus said...
doolla, upwind in 2-3 sessions?!!! Wow, I'm still struggling with it, and I'd say I've been out probably 10+ times!

I'm going away to hang my head in shame!

Thanks for the feedback and positivity!

Mate, when you are learning the wind conditions are so critical, if it is perfect you do really well. If it is too light or to strong it is a bit of a battle.

So one guy can do real good, and think he has cracked it, but the next day it os different and he's battling.

A huge part of learning is how to adapt technique and equipment selection to the conditions , that takes a while.

I'm still learning too, but more time out there has to be the best!

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
21 Dec 2012 11:10AM
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Thanks Dave. Went out last night as it goes. The wind started well, and felt good about my progress (I have even convinced myself I may have at least been able to hold my position up/down wind)...

Then I got grumpy because I got a learner kite across my lines my kite (not that I'm blaming the learner, we've all been there, and if the beach wasn't so compacted, I'd have been no where near down wind of the learner...in the nicest possible way) and took me a while to resurrect.

I'll keep plugging away at it....

Akwa
WA, 255 posts
21 Dec 2012 9:49AM
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arloj said...
Lessoned learned today (not involving me thank christ)

Out at Pt Moore this arvo around 16:00

- Kiter heading downwind
- Dinghy coming in
- Kiter slams into side of dinghy, somersaults over and lands the other side, said he was okay when i asked as he walked over to abuse the dinghy owner who turned out to be a cop.

lesson learned - be ultra aware of the surrounding vessels even if you have the right of way.


And who's vessel it is



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"Newbie - Lessons learned so far..." started by SaltySinus