I don't go charging into a group as you have assumed. They turn around without looking first and without any warning and charge back at us on port.
The rules make it easier to understand as to what they are likely to do and makes it easier to avoid.
When yachts are having a tacking duel, they are exercising the rules all the time to keep them from having a collision. You are talking about the ISAF racing rules of sailing.Boats in channels and commercial boating all follow the collision regulations, pretty messy when they don't.
In out topic of this post it is just Collision regulations for windsurfing and kiting. They are very relevant for what we are riding. If you ignore the rules or in your case don't give a **** about them then you are potentially putting others in danger.
How considerate of you to other water users.....NOT.
Fez, why bother trying to be helpful and convince those who just think it their given right to argue a point and just bullsh!t their way around the subject. Great you have highlighted, but some just cant resist being clever with an answer to your points raised
I wouldn't ever want to be involved in an accident and have some of the comments placed on this, or other forums thrown back at me
I agree Mineral1,
Not worth bothering anymore with some of the immature responses from some.
At least I brought to their attention and hope the message is taken on board.
It was interesting to see how widespread the lack of knowledge is.
Cheers
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
I
Personally I don't give a **** about right of way rules. They are entirely irrelevant for the type of craft we are on and the type of riding we do (and I do know the rules. I have a number of boating licences that say I do.) They work fine for boats in channels and commercial boating. They sort of work for yachts in races (but not really when you see a tacking duel.
What matters more than any stupid rule is simply avoiding everybody else and not ruining people's day. It's not hard to do.
What a strange statement.
When you have 30 craft going in and out at a beach, and people try to go upwind, their paths of travel will intersect sometimes. Knowing that port (here it is those heading out) are the ones who change their course a little to avoid those on starboard means we DON'T have the last minute "oh **** gotta avoid that guy" ................and maybe they both turn the same way and whack!
That's why knowing this one simple rule is important. You need the rule to avoid ruining people's day. Imagine if we drove on the left or right of the road (whatever u feel like) and the rule was "try to avoid hitting people" - it would not work. That's why we have the port gives way to starboard one.
Pretty much says it all.
Stay safe but gooses that can't tell their left from their right really get me.
As Gorgo says " its not hard to do."
Select to expand quoteFez said..
I agree Mineral1,
Not worth bothering anymore with some of the immature responses from some.
At least I brought to their attention and hope the message is taken on board.
It was interesting to see how widespread the lack of knowledge is.
Cheers
It was never going to end well.
Poleys vs kiters is the oldest recurrent theme on this site.
You started 2 identical threads, one in poleys section, 1 in kiters section.
Then you're mightily surprised that in each thread the home team has a go at the other.
Meanwhile the issue has been flogged to death over the last 10 years but you're just discovering it and 'bringing it to everyone's attention'.
Meanwhile the people reading these threads are not the selfish idiots causing issues to begin with - those guys just do it, don't spend hours on forums reading about it.
Next time either talk to them on the beach, or go-pro it so we can see whether you weren't just freaking out and taking 'evasive action' when you could have passed fine. Kiters pass pretty close and don't clash lines 99% of the time, without proof who knows the real situation?
Select to expand quotekiteboy dave said..
... whether you weren't just freaking out and taking 'evasive action' when you could have passed fine. Kiters pass pretty close and don't clash lines 99% of the time...
I say, you wouldn't be a carpenter, would you?
But more like 99.99999999999999999% of the time - I've never seen a crash/line clash and I kite in Asia, and y'all know how well they drive.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
... and the rule was "try to avoid hitting people" - it would not work.
Most of Asia does just fine with that rule.
I posted the same thread in windsurfing section so those that don't know rules could be informed of the rules as well. Your comments here seem to be the majority of the rift between windsurfing and kites if you bother to read any of it properly.
"but you're just discovering it". Idiotic comment
"Meanwhile the people reading these threads are not the selfish idiots causing issues to begin with - those guys just do it, don't spend hours on forums reading about it."
What a hypocritical comment indeed. 4253 posts take a good hard look at yourself.
No respect.
Select to expand quoteFez said..
I posted the same thread in windsurfing section so those that don't know rules could be informed of the rules as well. Your comments here seem to be the majority of the rift between windsurfing and kites if you bother to read any of it properly.
"but you're just discovering it". Idiotic comment
"Meanwhile the people reading these threads are not the selfish idiots causing issues to begin with - those guys just do it, don't spend hours on forums reading about it."
What a hypocritical comment indeed. 4253 posts take a good hard look at yourself.
No respect.
Oh damn, Dave! He totally went to the post count smack down! That's stone cold right there!
that's a first 
Anyway Mark started it all with reply #1 and he's got 13,741 posts so there 
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Give up dude. When you try to post about a certain spot and actual problems you saw, all posted politely in the name of getting along and avoiding injury you will find you are:
(1) a hater apparently
and
(2) will get responses from people who don't know the spot and try to tell you about how it should work.
then
(3) a debate about how right of way is irrelevant as they are special, then the comments about how "I will just boost over all of youse lolz fk off old windsurfer dudes"
(then the thread tomorrow about "poor us we are getting another kiting ban at spot XYZ boo hoo")
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
....
When you have 30 craft going in and out at a beach, and people try to go upwind, their paths of travel will intersect sometimes. Knowing that port (here it is those heading out) are the ones who change their course a little to avoid those on starboard means we DON'T have the last minute "oh **** gotta avoid that guy" ................and maybe they both turn the same way and whack!
....
The whole port/starboard thing is entirely meaningless. The rule is more simply put as "Turn right". If turning right means turning upwind then chances are you won't be able to turn at all. That's ok because the rider going the other way should turn right and downwind and all is good.
Problem is there is another rule which supersedes that one, where you both hold your course to avoid having a collision.
So you're blasting along, going to pass close to each other and you've both miscalculated and misinterpreted the situation then you're well and truly ****ed. The skilled guy on the raceboard is holding his course. The less skilled guy on the twintip is turning downwind and cutting across the path of the other guy. Meanwhile windsurfer boy has finally got on the plane and is blasting through at a full speed at the beach because he can't gybe and wants to crash into the shallow water.
None of the above takes into account the effect of variations in power and lulls and variations in performance and maneuverability and skill. You get a lull in a boat and you just sit there. You get a lull on a sailboard and you get a wet bum. You get a lull on a kiteboard and it can be all of the above, or you're fighting to keep your kite in the air, or fighting to avoid bonking somebody downwind with your kite or numerous other things. Conversely, the lull stops the sailboard but the kiter keeps on planing by as though nothing has happened.
It is far better to project your course and plan your actions well in advance of conflict. Personally I prefer to use my superior speed and power and maneuverability to get out of the way and not get into those positions in the first place. Shouldn't everybody do that?
Certainly learn the rules. But don't expect them to do anything particularly useful. They would be better to be called guidelines.
You know that no yacht is going to give way to a sailboard or a kiter, they shouldn't have to. Why are you riding in a place where you have to call right of way? Why are you ever within several line lengths of a yacht in the first place?
What is more annoying is the hypocrisy of the rules crowd. You guys pretend that there are a set of rules that actually apply in all cases and that you all obey them rigorously.
All of this begs the obvious question, why are you guys all riding in such close proximity of each other at speeds that increase the risk of collision? Why follow a rider all the way to the beach and act all surprised that they turn and actually make the turn and want to ride back out again? Or follow close behind them and act surprised that they turn to head back in again? Oh. I forgot. You're on windsurfers. You can't turn.
Select to expand quotekiteboy dave said..
Then you're mightily surprised that in each thread the home team has a go at the other.
Where you are the "home team" and all the other kiters actually agree with Fez...
Maybe before you try do some hectic stunts like riding toeside you should sit down for 30 seconds and learn the rules.
Fez
420's worlds 1981
470's Goodwill games
18'ft skiff world champs 1996 2000
Italian Olympic Sailing Coach 1996 2000
AIS Coach
Sydney Hobarts
I think he knows what he's talkimg about
Select to expand quotemc2 said..
Fez
420's worlds 1981
470's Goodwill games
18'ft skiff world champs 1996 2000
Italian Olympic Sailing Coach 1996 2000
AIS Coach
Sydney Hobarts
I think he knows what he's talkimg about
You'd think he'd be more used to sharing the water and close racing then 
Select to expand quoteflyingcab said..
Where you are the "home team" and all the other kiters actually agree with Fez...
All of them eh? Not the impression I'm getting. As stated in my first reply, it's rude to be rude and it should be dealt with on the beach at the time. The rest is preaching to the converted.
Select to expand quotemc2 said..
Fez
420's worlds 1981
470's Goodwill games
18'ft skiff world champs 1996 2000
Italian Olympic Sailing Coach 1996 2000
AIS Coach
Sydney Hobarts
I think he knows what he's talkimg about
mc2...first post....talking up fez........ummmm....is that you fez??? lol Just joking dude. lol
If all that info is true, you would think he would be able to take evasive action in crowds to avoid collisions,
But I guess its different to all his experience sailing big boats compared to windsurfing.
Im starting to think this may be part of the problem. We are trying to obey rules written over 40 years ago, in fezés era, when kiteing wasnt around and water sailing boats took 5mins to change course.
Nothing worse than someone following the old days sailing boat rules out in the waves and wrecking everyone elses session charging out in the middle of the line up saying they have right of way, you MUST pull of the wave you are on as I have right of way????
Kiteboards can turn to avoid collision/obstacles in a split second, while windsurfers take a long time to take evasive action to change course. Might be part of the problem that they get scared we are close or going to collide while we arent scared as we can maneuver faster and know we wont hit??
I guess if I was windsurfing and couldnt take evasive action as quick, I'd get scared too if someone was within in 20m of me.
Might be time to update the old "sailing" rules from ancient times to relate to the real world. I mean, we dont push women off a cliff anymore to prove if they are a witch or not???? Maybe we should....start with my X please..lol
Ackshully, I agree with both Fez and Dave. You should be able to relax out there and do your thing, and if there's issues discuss it on the beach like gentlemen.
The Kite guys should use the strip in front of Carters Island, the Windsurfers used to use this before the tree line became too tall for Windsurfers but still fine ( perfect for Kites ). And it doesnt matter if the tide is high or low. If it wasnt for the trees we would all be there, much flatter water and much, much longer runs. The only reason we moved up to Pelican Point is because of the tree height. Honestly Carters Island is perfect. Problem solved !! Now lets get back to the life !! 
Im a bit surprised this has turned in to a contentious issue port and starboard tacks are really basic to understand and usually you'll know if you have the room to pass on whatever tack you're on but if its going to be too close for comfort then yeah port gives way to starboard,if someone doesn't take the right option avoid them and ask them if they are aware of what they did or didn't do and give them the heads up-pretty basic issue to resolve instead of the poley v teabag crap.
Select to expand quoteRicardo1709 said..
Im a bit surprised this has turned in to a contentious issue port and starboard tacks are really basic to understand and usually you'll know if you have the room to pass on whatever tack you're on but if its going to be too close for comfort then yeah port gives way to starboard,if someone doesn't take the right option avoid them and ask them if they are aware of what they did or didn't do and give them the heads up-pretty basic issue to resolve instead of the poley v teabag crap.
spot on.
I think the bigger issue than people learning the difference between port and starboard, is the one windsurfer who intentionally goes out of his way to try and run kiters over at this spot.
I understand he might get frustrated with kites cutting him off etc, but does he realise how dangerous that can be for both himself and the kiter?
He'll kill someone one day if he keeps it up.
Select to expand quoteRicardo1709 said..
Im a bit surprised this has turned in to a contentious issue port and starboard tacks are really basic to understand and usually you'll know if you have the room to pass on whatever tack you're on but if its going to be too close for comfort then yeah port gives way to starboard,if someone doesn't take the right option avoid them and ask them if they are aware of what they did or didn't do and give them the heads up-pretty basic issue to resolve instead of the poley v teabag crap.
Totally agree with Ricardo and Fez! I come from a sailing back ground and done some windsurfing, now loving to kite as much as possible. Basic port and starboard rules (which should be known by all water craft users) help take away the "rabbit in the headlight" situation two people coming together and neither knowing who should give way. However In many situations common sense should prevail.eg. Keep clear of a guy on a wave, in a area known for speed runs, if someone is out of control or obvious beginner it just makes sense to give them more room as they are going to find it harder to change course.
At sailing nationals you'll often get 100 boats around a start line before a race, before the starting sequence, people use a lot of common sense and not strictly follow (or enforce) the rules as guys might be taking a pee off the boat, eating lunch etc and your not going to call Starboard on the guy when you can see he is not ready to change course! But at the same time, if would be rare to see someone on Port tack just cruising about not looking for other boats, because in all the chaos there are basic rules to follow! Just like Kiting, in general common sense is key as we are not generally racing, but the end of the day some basic rules are there to keep us safe and have fun!
And if you do hit someone without following these basic rules, your at fault regards of pleading ignorance just like the road laws!
Lotofwind,
The rules are there for everyone's safety and are in place for that purpose. I do not understand your argument about old rules etc.... what a dumb comment!.
Pretty sure you have difficulty in reading my first post but I think you will find I took evasive action to avoid a 3 collisions, so a bit pissed of with some knobhead comments. If I was avoiding a collision from some one who wasn't abiding by the rules then what have I done wrong?
Idiots
But did you really need to take action or were you being paranoid? Or bloody-mindedly sticking to the rules?
Kamikuza....
Are you kidding me.
I have better things to do.
You have no idea.
3 x times in one session and close...too bloody close.
I am not the one needing to be fixed here, it is the people that don't respect others on the water... so learn the rules and we won't have this sitiation.
I kite at pelican pt.and have heard enough of the **** kiters making bad moves and pole dancers aiming at kiters.do we need an accident before we grow up.repect all water users
Select to expand quoteFez said..
Kamikuza....
Are you kidding me.
I have better things to do.
You have no idea.
3 x times in one session and close...too bloody close.
I am not the one needing to be fixed here, it is the people that don't respect others on the water... so learn the rules and we won't have this sitiation.
No I'm not. You sound like the sort of person who won't give an inch "cos I'm in the right" and rather than putting aside the rules for common sense and giving a few yards, you'll force a situation so you can jump around with displays of self-righteous indignation.
I could be wrong. I mean, it's not like I'm out riding where no single other water user has a clue about rules, regulations or even common sense...
Accidents to date: 0.
Stress ulcers due to people not following the rules: 0.
Relax, it's not the end of the world.
Any how, there is value in Fez's original comments and I am now practicing the correct right of way.
