Or you can buy a kite.
I own a 4 meter REO and it is my favourite kite in big storms, it is also the one being used by my kids to learn and any mate can have a bash at wedge with lots of clearance in 15 knots.
The hayabusa would work fine if you were practicing on an empty airport.
I do however look forward to seeing your precision flying on the water 
Bravo, you are a fine specimen 
Sebol, you win. You are so incredibly talented, you don't need to practice. Congrats.
I don't understand why there are so many guys in this thread obsessed with a trainer kite not flying like a real kite because it does not have "depower" on the bar.
Seriously???.if depower amounts to the most important skill you think you need to kite surf then I hope I am not out on the water when you are. Kiting effectively is about small control inputs through the bar to effect a move, gain power in light winds and transition and get moving. There is no better way to learn that than on a trainer kite where you get a feel for what the kite is doing through the bar.
I think everything kite power mentioned in their post is of immense value to anyone wanting to get into kiting and develop their skills for more advanced moves that involve better kite control. The reason you don't see a lot of good trainer kites for sale second hand is that anyone who has learnt on a good trainer will continue using it as the feel is very similar to a real kite in regards to the pressure on the bar when flying the kite.
One of the most important skills I learnt before even jumping onto a proper water kite was flying the trainer in strong winds with my eyes closed and using the feel through the bar to know where the kite was and what it was doing. This allowed me to progress very quickly when switching over to a water kite and meant I could focus more on what I was doing with the board than on the kite.
In relation to the comment about trainers not having depower. That is complete baloney. They do have depower. If you pull the bar towards you when the trainer is powered up you get a sense of powering the kite. If you push the bar away when powered you get the feeling of depowering the kite and the kite will move very quickly out of the power zone to the edge of the window. If you let go of the the bar the kite will flag.You can the relaunch the kite using the third line.
I am currently learning to do some mega loops and I am practising on the trainer as a starting point so I get a feel for how the kite feels through the bar when aggressively looping. When I get to the water it means that
a) I have a much better feel for what the kite is doing so I don't have to focus as much on it b) I have confidence in my kite control when looping the kite aggressively.
Do you need to do this..No..it does give me a way to practice some new skills when the wind is not quite up and also to hit the water with a lot more confidence when learning a new skill.
We could argue all day as to wether a trainer is a good idea or not. IMO they have a place not only when learning but learning new skills that involve a different way of controlling the kite.
You are not going to get that from a basic stunt kite or evil bay kite.
Fire your trainer kite up with a longboard skateboard. its the best way to use one!
13+ years since doing the IKO thing and taught hundreds to kitesurf.
you are far better off spending the money on a lesson than a trainer kite.
if you feel it compelling then just get a 2 line stunt kite.
after these 13 years of teaching i can pick like clockwork certain points of time when all students are at the same point at the same time irregardless of previous experience outside of actual power kite flying experience.
that time always starts from when student starts using a "real" kite to when they body drag upwind. it is always within 5-10min.
So spend the money on lessons from an instructor that makes you feel comfortable and doesn't waste your money flying toy kites.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Fire your trainer kite up with a longboard skateboard. its the best way to use one!
C'mon, fess up and show us some of the roasties?
Select to expand quotekitebt said..
I think everything kite power mentioned in their post is of immense value to anyone wanting to get into kiting and develop their skills for more advanced moves that involve better kite control.
Could not agree more, and with KitePower. So called "trainer" kites are there specifically for that purpose, but they can be used for other purposes like ATBing, and buggying as well. Hell, even a nice 3mt NASA Wing will create more pull than a 14mt LEI kite. It's really horses for courses.
But really, a trainer kite is there to teach the basics of kite control and some what more, if you're so inclined. At the end of the day, the best training you're going to get is out there in the water.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Fire your trainer kite up with a longboard skateboard. its the best way to use one!
Nice one Plummet. I have all the required ingredients, except perhaps an open outdoor windy path like that. I'll have to find one.
For the record, I have a 3.5 imp trainer that has been claimed by my wife, it's perfect for her to beach fly and she loves the drop-to-depower security. Plus it's fast & easy to rig/launch/pack up/etc. I snapped up a 2nd hand one for her, and for teaching mates, etc. Sorry about that noobs, another one off the market. 
BTW RALINN not sure about your logic, I mean the first thing an instructor is going to do with a total noob is give them a trainer for an hour, right? So why pay for that as a lesson when the same money would buy the trainer?
Select to expand quotekiteboy dave said..
BTW RALINN not sure about your logic, I mean the first thing an instructor is going to do with a total noob is give them a trainer for an hour, right? So why pay for that as a lesson when the same money would buy the trainer?
That is the reason I spent $50 and bought one. I'm thinking I will spend a few day's at the beach with the kids flying it.
I Have not had lessons yet, but I was at the water the other day and there was a school giving lessons , a young couple whom spent any were up to $120 p/hour "each" were being showing the ropes with a Trainer kite, it was not pretty. I left after about 45 min and they were still going with the Trainer kite.
I would like to think when I have lessons we get to skip that part. Just my way of thinking.
Select to expand quotekiteboy dave said..
BTW RALINN not sure about your logic, I mean the first thing an instructor is going to do with a total noob is give them a trainer for an hour, right? So why pay for that as a lesson when the same money would buy the trainer?
Oooh. You're playing with fire. A trainer kite is NO subsitute for a person checking you out, advicing and training you. That goes without saying really.
Furthermore, if I gave a trainer kite to anyone that has no IOTA about kite surfing, what are they going to do when I ask them the basics - the power zone, wind window, edging, etc? Huh? Wot'z edging Sirrr!?
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..
13+ years since doing the IKO thing and taught hundreds to kitesurf.
Myself and Darren Marshall did the course in Feb 2003, thats just under 11 years ago. Was not called IKO then, but our instructor numbers remain mine is 233, what number is yours?Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..you are far better off spending the money on a lesson than a trainer kite.
if you feel it compelling then just get a 2 line stunt kite.
after these 13 years of teaching i can pick like clockwork certain points of time when all students are at the same point at the same time irregardless of previous experience outside of actual power kite flying experience.
that time always starts from when student starts using a "real" kite to when they body drag upwind. it is always within 5-10min.
Sorry Tony thats BS, someone that already knows how to fly a kite, knows the wind window, is comfortable with one handed steering, etc always learns faster and saves money on lessonsSelect to expand quoteRAL INN said..
So spend the money on lessons from an instructor that makes you feel comfortable and doesn't waste your money flying toy kites.
That sounds a lot like, listen to me, I know everything, relax, be comfortable, while I empty your wallet as much as possible while you take as many lessons as I can sell you.
Professional schools, that run full time in the season and rely on repeat business and a good reputation, must deliver excellent value for money and produce the safest possible, confident learners. These schools and instructors will always give the advice that it is best to learn to fly a kite before coming for lessons.
Like VWPete says, it can be an evilbay kite and a piece of dowel, but in my experience leaning is faster easier and more enjoyable with a quality kite. We've offered to buy back all trainer kites we sell for years, but hardly anyone has ever taken up the offer, the reason is obvious, they got so much out of it or they sold or gave it to their friends or kids, etc.
Select to expand quotekiteboy dave said..Plummet said..
Fire your trainer kite up with a longboard skateboard. its the best way to use one!
Nice one Plummet. I have all the required ingredients, except perhaps an open outdoor windy path like that. I'll have to find one.
Theres one somewhere..... look for it. Select to expand quoteLostDog said..
C'mon, fess up and show us some of the roasties?
Roasties? you mean crashes? No crashes. but I did have to peel the kite out of a tree one time!.......
Select to expand quotekiteboy dave said..Plummet said..
Fire your trainer kite up with a longboard skateboard. its the best way to use one!
Nice one Plummet. I have all the required ingredients, except perhaps an open outdoor windy path like that. I'll have to find one.
For the record, I have a 3.5 imp trainer that has been claimed by my wife, it's perfect for her to beach fly and she loves the drop-to-depower security. Plus it's fast & easy to rig/launch/pack up/etc. I snapped up a 2nd hand one for her, and for teaching mates, etc. Sorry about that noobs, another one off the market.
BTW RALINN not sure about your logic, I mean the first thing an instructor is going to do with a total noob is give them a trainer for an hour, right? So why pay for that as a lesson when the same money would buy the trainer?
Yeh I've looked everywhere and I have a big estuary to play with, with paths all the way along the shore...just too many of those damned trees...lol.
Select to expand quote
Myself and Darren Marshall did the course in Feb 2003, thats just under 11 years ago. Was not called IKO then, but our instructor numbers remain mine is 233, what number is yours?
Sorry Tony thats BS, someone that already knows how to fly a kite, knows the wind window, is comfortable with one handed steering, etc always learns faster and saves money on lessons
That sounds a lot like, listen to me, I know everything, relax, be comfortable, while I empty your wallet as much as possible while you take as many lessons as I can sell you.
Professional schools, that run full time in the season and rely on repeat business and a good reputation, must deliver excellent value for money and produce the safest possible, confident learners. These schools and instructors will always give the advice that it is best to learn to fly a kite before coming for lessons.
Like VWPete says, it can be an evilbay kite and a piece of dowel, but in my experience leaning is faster easier and more enjoyable with a quality kite. We've offered to buy back all trainer kites we sell for years, but hardly anyone has ever taken up the offer, the reason is obvious, they got so much out of it or they sold or gave it to their friends or kids, etc.
it was still called Wipika School network then but changing.
the difference between previous trainer kite experience and nil is sorted in about 10-15mins of instruction.
your reply sounds like just an excuse to get in another post peddling your product.
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said.....the difference between previous trainer kite experience and nil is sorted in about 10-15mins of instruction.
Maybe we should clear out what "trainer kite experience" means. If you're talking about somebody being able to hold a 2 liner or 3 liner at zenith, I agree. That's 5 minutes and completely useless.
But you certainly don't learn radical kite maneuvers in 15 minutes - neither on a trainer nor on a full fledged kite - , flying the kite close to the ground across the window, powered up for heel dragging, diving it like for water start using the whole of the wind window and not just half of it, flying the box, down loop and loop, the 8, one handed, and so on.
I have tested this many times. I give a 2m or 3m quality fixed bridle kite to the newb depending on weight, show him the moves, and have him come back after a week or a month when he's able to fly the maneuvers accurately and at full speed. The big kite is then a real relief, so much slower, easier to control, and the newb can concentrate on the other stuff. It's the difference between crashing the kite and flying the kite. IMHO.
Select to expand quotesebol said..
pull right and the kite turns to the right, pull left and it goes to the left.
The term 'trainer' kite is a total misnomer.
It's a goddamn toy kite.
It's a pretend kite that teaches you zero respect for the power of a real kitesurfing kite.
It's a tool of the school who like to hand it out to a clueless newbie as a diversionary tactic,
when there's not enough wind for a proper lession.
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..sebol said..
pull right and the kite turns to the right, pull left and it goes to the left.
The term 'trainer' kite is a total misnomer.
It's a goddamn toy kite.
It's a pretend kite that teaches you zero respect for the power of a real kitesurfing kite.
It's a tool of the school who like to hand it out to a clueless newbie as a diversionary tactic,
when there's not enough wind for a proper lession.
LOL. Like it was said, have you flown a single skin fixed bridle kite like a NASA wing? No. Didn't think so. Try one and you will quickly realise it's not a toy kite and will pull you harder than a LEI kite.
I haven't been around since the turn if the century but I know for a fact that Steve is 100% correct on the value of trainer kite time before lessons.
That's why at The Kite Surf SUP school we offer every student use of free trainer and a manual for as long as they like before starting on their costly instructor time. We recommend a minimum of 10 to 20 hrs of self learning - with the manual as your guide.
Apart from getting students who are capable kite handlers the boost in confidence and lack of anxiety doubles the value of instruction time.
If you want value for money from your kite lessons learn to fly a kite in your own time first.
It's a no-brainer.
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..sebol said..
pull right and the kite turns to the right, pull left and it goes to the left.
The term 'trainer' kite is a total misnomer.
It's a goddamn toy kite.
It's a pretend kite that teaches you zero respect for the power of a real kitesurfing kite.
It's a tool of the school who like to hand it out to a clueless newbie as a diversionary tactic,
when there's not enough wind for a proper lession.
I'm with waveslave. In the context of a structured lesson in kiteboarding with an instructor, the only "trainer kite" of value is the LEI kite that will take the student into the water. Previous kite flying experience or lack of is very quickly overcome ( or used up) by competent instruction.
If a student goes and plays with a kite prior to their lesson with me, that's fine, but does it get them safely into the water body dragging upwind with a heathy understanding and knowledge of, and usability of the safety systems any faster? No.
From rolling out the LEi to body dragging upwind for my students has and continues to be within 5mins either way of 2hrs. Any significant variation is barely 5-10 min quicker for those naturals who click quickly to it.
This is my experience from teaching professionally all these years and still going and earning my income from it.
I appreciate other schools and instructors will have their own systems, everything I have said is my opinion based on my experience.
RAL, I appreciate your experience, and I would agree that you can teach, with a modern LEI, the basic handling and safety relevant stuff within the time frame you mention, without any kite skill in the student. Modern LEIs are that stable. Your students learn to park and ride a modern rag in decent conditions.
Unfortunately, the result of this method is poor kite flying skills. The lads know fark all about kite handling, trimming, let alone most basic concepts in aerodynamics like stall or luff, and how to fly a kite. Put them on a twitchy, wrongly trimmed or otherwise distorted kite and they don't know what to do. Give them a decent fixed bridle power kite on handles and a bit of gusty wind and they're in for a ride they will never forget.
Kiting is not only about mowing the lawn on a LEI.
Putting the kids on a trainer for some time is about teaching them basic kite skills.
I see the result of your method every day on the beach. Not funny.
Select to expand quotetungsten said..
RAL, I appreciate your experience, and I would agree that you can teach, with a modern LEI, the basic handling and safety relevant stuff within the time frame you mention, without any kite skill in the student. Modern LEIs are that stable. Your students learn to park and ride a modern rag in decent conditions.
Unfortunately, the result of this method is poor kite flying skills. The lads know fark all about kite handling, trimming, let alone most basic concepts in aerodynamics like stall or luff, and how to fly a kite. Put them on a twitchy, wrongly trimmed or otherwise distorted kite and they don't know what to do. Give them a decent fixed bridle power kite on handles and a bit of gusty wind and they're in for a ride they will never forget.
Kiting is not only about mowing the lawn on a LEI.
Putting the kids on a trainer for some time is about teaching them basic kite skills.
I see the result of your method every day on the beach. Not funny.
those extra skills you refer to, are usually part of what I teach but mainly in the stage after body dragging.
I agree that cheap fleabay kites are a waste of $.
But why has nobody mentioned one of the most valuable uses of a trainer kite?
You know, the days when some young lady is on the beach and mentions that kiting looks like fun etc.... Perfect opportunity to offer them a go on your trainer kite.
I've met a few girls that way, some of them I am still friends with...
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..
Myself and Darren Marshall did the course in Feb 2003, thats just under 11 years ago. Was not called IKO then, but our instructor numbers remain mine is 233, what number is yours?
Sorry Tony thats BS, someone that already knows how to fly a kite, knows the wind window, is comfortable with one handed steering, etc always learns faster and saves money on lessons
That sounds a lot like, listen to me, I know everything, relax, be comfortable, while I empty your wallet as much as possible while you take as many lessons as I can sell you.
Professional schools, that run full time in the season and rely on repeat business and a good reputation, must deliver excellent value for money and produce the safest possible, confident learners. These schools and instructors will always give the advice that it is best to learn to fly a kite before coming for lessons.
Like VWPete says, it can be an evilbay kite and a piece of dowel, but in my experience leaning is faster easier and more enjoyable with a quality kite. We've offered to buy back all trainer kites we sell for years, but hardly anyone has ever taken up the offer, the reason is obvious, they got so much out of it or they sold or gave it to their friends or kids, etc.
it was still called Wipika School network then but changing.
the difference between previous trainer kite experience and nil is sorted in about 10-15mins of instruction.
your reply sounds like just an excuse to get in another post peddling your product.
So you didn't actually do your IKO 13+ years ago did you? Whats your instructor number?
Anyway, you just fail to understand that no matter how many times you state that you teach this or that, you clearly have a significant inability to understand that all people learn at different rates. You don't seem to understand that teaching kitesurfing is not a "I did this or do what I say" exercise. Teaching is about understanding how your student is learning, so a good teacher always learns twice, because every student is different.
The skills they need to learn however are the same, and a kite designed specifically for the purpose of learning basic kite control will do that best.
When people lack basic kite flying skills, they inevitably fail and crash the kite without understanding why, something which your ego driven teaching method prevents you from seeing. Not only are they embarrassed, they begin to feel fear of the kite and fear of making more errors. People always benefit from previous kite flying experience, to deny it, really just exposes your failings as a good teacher.
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..those extra skills you refer to, are usually part of what I teach but mainly in the stage after body dragging.
That's where we don't agree. What you call "extra skills", I call "rudimentary basics". Am I right in guessing that very few students pay you long enough to learn those extra skills? I wonder how many lessons you need to learn a powered down loop on a full size kitesurfing kite?
Select to expand quotetungsten said..RAL INN said.....the difference between previous trainer kite experience and nil is sorted in about 10-15mins of instruction.
Maybe we should clear out what "trainer kite experience" means. If you're talking about somebody being able to hold a 2 liner or 3 liner at zenith, I agree. That's 5 minutes and completely useless.
But you certainly don't learn radical kite maneuvers in 15 minutes - neither on a trainer nor on a full fledged kite - , flying the kite close to the ground across the window, powered up for heel dragging, diving it like for water start using the whole of the wind window and not just half of it, flying the box, down loop and loop, the 8, one handed, and so on.
I have tested this many times. I give a 2m or 3m quality fixed bridle kite to the newb depending on weight, show him the moves, and have him come back after a week or a month when he's able to fly the maneuvers accurately and at full speed. The big kite is then a real relief, so much slower, easier to control, and the newb can concentrate on the other stuff. It's the difference between crashing the kite and flying the kite. IMHO.Select to expand quoteSkid said..
I agree that cheap fleabay kites are a waste of $.
But why has nobody mentioned one of the most valuable uses of a trainer kite?
You know, the days when some young lady is on the beach and mentions that kiting looks like fun etc.... Perfect opportunity to offer them a go on your trainer kite.
I've met a few girls that way, some of them I am still friends with...
That my friend shows a man a immense experience
Steve, I worked out the years by simply knowing that our examiner had a proto Airblast 10 and I got one a few weeks after and it was a 2001 model. 2 seasons later I got a 2003 model Airblast 10. So by that rudimentary deduction and it being 2014 I came up with that figure. Of course how accurate it is has so much importance to this thread.
I don't have any documentation from back then to go check, you might remember we had a bit of a burn at the start of 2009.
How about you ask Goshen, I sat next to him during the course.
As for the rest of your attack.
Go stick your left eye in hot cocky,s cack.
Select to expand quotepuppetonastring said..
I haven't been around since the turn if the century but I know for a fact that Steve is 100% correct on the value of trainer kite time before lessons.
That's why at The Kite Surf SUP school we offer every student use of free trainer and a manual for as long as they like before starting on their costly instructor time. We recommend a minimum of 10 to 20 hrs of self learning - with the manual as your guide.
Apart from getting students who are capable kite handlers the boost in confidence and lack of anxiety doubles the value of instruction time.
If you want value for money from your kite lessons learn to fly a kite in your own time first.
It's a no-brainer.
Thank you, I agree, all schools should require a minimum 20 hours on a "trainer/toy" kite before even contemplating a lesson.
The 99.5% who die of boredom after 5 minutes would never make it to the water and all our spots would be empty.
Maybe an added tramp stamp tattooed to confirm that you have achieved your 20 hours???
Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said..RAL INN said..
Myself and Darren Marshall did the course in Feb 2003, thats just under 11 years ago. Was not called IKO then, but our instructor numbers remain mine is 233, what number is yours?
Sorry Tony thats BS, someone that already knows how to fly a kite, knows the wind window, is comfortable with one handed steering, etc always learns faster and saves money on lessons
That sounds a lot like, listen to me, I know everything, relax, be comfortable, while I empty your wallet as much as possible while you take as many lessons as I can sell you.
Professional schools, that run full time in the season and rely on repeat business and a good reputation, must deliver excellent value for money and produce the safest possible, confident learners. These schools and instructors will always give the advice that it is best to learn to fly a kite before coming for lessons.
Like VWPete says, it can be an evilbay kite and a piece of dowel, but in my experience leaning is faster easier and more enjoyable with a quality kite. We've offered to buy back all trainer kites we sell for years, but hardly anyone has ever taken up the offer, the reason is obvious, they got so much out of it or they sold or gave it to their friends or kids, etc.
it was still called Wipika School network then but changing.
the difference between previous trainer kite experience and nil is sorted in about 10-15mins of instruction.
your reply sounds like just an excuse to get in another post peddling your product.
So you didn't actually do your IKO 13+ years ago did you? Whats your instructor number?
Anyway, you just fail to understand that no matter how many times you state that you teach this or that, you clearly have a significant inability to understand that all people learn at different rates. You don't seem to understand that teaching kitesurfing is not a "I did this or do what I say" exercise. Teaching is about understanding how your student is learning, so a good teacher always learns twice, because every student is different.
The skills they need to learn however are the same, and a kite designed specifically for the purpose of learning basic kite control will do that best.
When people lack basic kite flying skills, they inevitably fail and crash the kite without understanding why, something which your ego driven teaching method prevents you from seeing. Not only are they embarrassed, they begin to feel fear of the kite and fear of making more errors. People always benefit from previous kite flying experience, to deny it, really just exposes your failings as a good teacher.
A bit harsh imo there, the are a few schools that don't use trainers and produce great results with students, you don't take that approach which is your decision and maybe you or your instructors produce good results, from receiving lessons and giving them imho im not a big believer in them, the uno has the same rigging depower safety as a lei kite so I can see a few advantages there, strange you mention different peoples learning rates, where in your teaching adverts your telling them they'll be on the board in no time, this as any instructor of any discipline will tell you is the 1st thing they notice, and this is one of the main reasons I disagree, also some peoples mental ability in taking things in or cancel them out , another reason I don't agree with them, feeling a bit of fear from a kite is certainly a good thing imo, the movement or forcefull flying of a foil is another reason I don't like them, rigging , depower, safety, etc etc is another reason due to different peoples learning rates and ability to take things in, you have your views and people have theirs, to pull the ive been doing it this long and try to embarrass some one on a public forum again is a bit harsh
