Forums > Kitesurfing General

Who was taught right of way rules?

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Created by Freddofrog > 9 months ago, 11 Mar 2015
sir ROWDY
WA, 5366 posts
13 Mar 2015 2:47AM
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As far as I'm aware -

- No one at sea has right of way, but the person/watercraft on the Port tack must "give-way" to the person on the Starboard tack. Motor-boat is supposed to give way to sail boat.

- When overtaking another kiter the person being over taken has right of way.

- Person changing tack must give way to those not doing so.

- Avoid collisions at all costs.

- When overlapping/passing the person downwind has right of way, meaning the more upwind rider must raise his/her kite.

- Person on the wave has right of way.

- Person moving with speed into the area that is the known "trick area" at a freestyle spot has right of way over someone merely moving through the area. If both riders entering at the same time then the person who waited their turn has right of way, and if that can't be solved then Starboard finally has right of way.

Using these guidelines it shouldn't be too difficult to avoid collisions. The problem really begins though when you need to define what the spot is... For example what if I'm at a small wave beach spot and I'm hitting ramps (waves) going out on my Starboard tack? Do I have right of way over people on Port tack "wave-riding" one foot slop?

stormgod
QLD, 137 posts
13 Mar 2015 5:55AM
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We were taught windsurfers give way to kite boarders, all other vessels you jump over.

theWaterBoy
WA, 225 posts
13 Mar 2015 7:55AM
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JacobMatan said..
also who has right of way the downwind kiter or the in and out kiter, sure the in and out kiter might be on the wave earlier but technically the downwind kiter is further upwind? I have experienced both sides following a wave in from far out only to have a downwind rider ride up on it from the shore break and riding a wave downwind only to be boxed in with nowhere to go by a in and out kiter? we need to make up a rule for this one


The Kiter "closest to the peak" of the wave has right of way... That is the guy on the wave... The "straight downwinder" can wait or head out...

kitebt
NSW, 325 posts
13 Mar 2015 11:02AM
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So I had situation a few months ago where we had a nearly direct on shore breeze and a break where you could catch the wave from either end and surf it all the way through to the middle of the beach. I caught a wave from the end of the beach where i was kiting and was surfing the wave toward the middle of the beach and another kiter caught the same wave at the other end....in effect we met somewhere in the middle of the wave. I saw he was on the line and we would have collided and I jumped out of the way...he then abused me for being on the wave....who has right of way in this instance?

Mark _australia
WA, 23454 posts
13 Mar 2015 8:31AM
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theWaterBoy said..



JacobMatan said..
also who has right of way the downwind kiter or the in and out kiter, sure the in and out kiter might be on the wave earlier but technically the downwind kiter is further upwind? I have experienced both sides following a wave in from far out only to have a downwind rider ride up on it from the shore break and riding a wave downwind only to be boxed in with nowhere to go by a in and out kiter? we need to make up a rule for this one





The Kiter "closest to the peak" of the wave has right of way... That is the guy on the wave... The "straight downwinder" can wait or head out...




First on wave owns it.

Then if you can't ascertain who was on it first, right of way is is the upwind person / closest to the peak (ie: he who can make the most of riding that wave)

Been that way forever and no new rule is needed, agreed that DW guys have to give way unless they go out back and catch a wave in the 'traditional' manner

surforkite
NSW, 153 posts
13 Mar 2015 12:11PM
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I was always taught the rider entering the water gives way to rider on the water which makes sense to me.
other way is a bit like dropping in(surfing) or forcing right of way I think.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
13 Mar 2015 9:50AM
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Yesterday, I drove out from the hardware store.

I pulled up behind a car at an intersection.

The traffic light was red.

We both waited patiently for the light to change.

Moments before it turned green ...

an ambulance siren screamed out 90 degrees to our right.

A second later and I spotted the ambo speeding towards the intersection.

In that very instant, the light changed to green.

I was astounded to see the car in front take off ...

like it was nothing out of the ordinary.

I remained stationary of course.

The green traffic light (all shiny and glowy),,,

an evil temptation willing on the unaware.

To my amazement, the car then stopped dead in the middle of the crossroad ...

not unlike a deer caught in the headlights, except it was bright daytime.

Obviously, his mind had finally processed and computed the info,

and then had gone into meltdown.


If you think my forum post has been a weird detour off the main road,

you should have seen that ambo track across that intersection.

lol.

flyingcab
VIC, 942 posts
13 Mar 2015 1:18PM
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http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/ISAFRRS20132016Final-[13376].pdf

Part 1 and 2 for normal sailing rules
Appendix F for kites
Appendix B for windsurfing - which has wave rules (p63)

Don't see how someone hasn't posted this yet.

EDIT: link doesn't work, just copy and paste and it should be good.

quikdrawMcgraw
1221 posts
13 Mar 2015 12:58PM
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Basic maritime rules,,vesels pass port to port. Sail has priority over powerboats, but power boats couldnt give a toss about kiters.

Gorgo
VIC, 5100 posts
13 Mar 2015 4:15PM
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quikdrawMcgraw said..
Basic maritime rules,,vesels pass port to port. Sail has priority over powerboats, but power boats couldnt give a toss about kiters.


Yachts in general, and racing yachts in particular, couldn't give a toss about kites and windsurfers. Think about that next time you want to call starboard on anyone.

quikdrawMcgraw
1221 posts
13 Mar 2015 3:28PM
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Gorgo said...
quikdrawMcgraw said..
Basic maritime rules,,vesels pass port to port. Sail has priority over powerboats, but power boats couldnt give a toss about kiters.


Yachts in general, and racing yachts in particular, couldn't give a toss about kites and windsurfers. Think about that next time you want to call starboard on anyone.



Whoa there gorgo. My life has been building and commissioning of yatchs and catamarans, and delivering them worldwide. I know there capabilities and limitations. Areas proper yatchs under sail and kiteboards frequent are totally different body's of water. A kiteboardeer assuming he has right of way over a sailboat has another thing coming, it wont end well. Keep that in mind when you gobb off

Gorgo
VIC, 5100 posts
13 Mar 2015 10:34PM
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quikdrawMcgraw said..

Gorgo said...

....


Whoa there gorgo. My life has been building and commissioning of yatchs and catamarans, and delivering them worldwide. I know there capabilities and limitations. Areas proper yatchs under sail and kiteboards frequent are totally different body's of water. A kiteboardeer assuming he has right of way over a sailboat has another thing coming, it wont end well. Keep that in mind when you gobb off


I wasn't gobbing off as you put it. I was pointing out the reality of it being unreasonable to pretend that there are a universal set of right of way rules that everybody obeys all the time. Many of the rules are physically impossible to obey when mixed craft are about, as you have pointed out.

FlickySpinny
WA, 657 posts
14 Mar 2015 4:08PM
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sir ROWDY said..
- Person on the wave has right of way.


In the interests of promoting windsurf / kitesurf harmony:

- Windsurfers do the complete opposite of this - the person heading out has right of way in waves.

This is because generally they've got less manoeuvrability whilst heading out.

Of course, it all helps if everyone (both windsurfer and kitesurfer) plays nicely and lets the person on the wave have a good run at it.

But just in case you're kiting at a wave spot and a windsurfer coming out gets in your way, please be aware that windsurfers follow different rules here and they think they're doing the right thing by holding their course. They're NOT trying to annoy you.

There's a decent possibility that they're trying quite hard not to get munched and possibly only marginally planing in the break and don't have as many options open to them as a kite would in the same situation.

Please give them a bit of room and everyone can carry on having a lovely old time.

theWaterBoy
WA, 225 posts
14 Mar 2015 6:28PM
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quikdrawMcgraw said..

Gorgo said...

quikdrawMcgraw said..
Basic maritime rules,,vesels pass port to port. Sail has priority over powerboats, but power boats couldnt give a toss about kiters.



Yachts in general, and racing yachts in particular, couldn't give a toss about kites and windsurfers. Think about that next time you want to call starboard on anyone.




Whoa there gorgo. My life has been building and commissioning of yatchs and catamarans, and delivering them worldwide. I know there capabilities and limitations. Areas proper yatchs under sail and kiteboards frequent are totally different body's of water. A kiteboardeer assuming he has right of way over a sailboat has another thing coming, it wont end well. Keep that in mind when you gobb off


That's the small boats give way to big boats rule OF THUMB

sir ROWDY
WA, 5366 posts
14 Mar 2015 6:34PM
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FlickySpinny said..


sir ROWDY said..
- Person on the wave has right of way.




In the interests of promoting windsurf / kitesurf harmony:

- Windsurfers do the complete opposite of this - the person heading out has right of way in waves.

This is because generally they've got less manoeuvrability whilst heading out.



Depends where you windsurf I think. When I Windsurfed we used to give the guy on the wave right of way, obviously no-one is just going to run into you, it's just said like that so you don't purposefully go through the path of someone on a good wave .

FlickySpinny
WA, 657 posts
14 Mar 2015 9:00PM
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sir ROWDY said..

FlickySpinny said..

sir ROWDY said..
- Person on the wave has right of way

- Windsurfers do the complete opposite of this - the person heading out has right of way in waves.

Depends where you windsurf I think. When I Windsurfed we used to give the guy on the wave right of way, obviously no-one is just going to run into you, it's just said like that so you don't purposefully go through the path of someone on a good wave .


Ah... interesting. WA, VIC, UK and Maui follow that rule. To my knowledge it's pretty much a universal rule in windsurfing these days, but I'm happy to be corrected.

I agree, everyone should try to give the kiter/windsurfer/surfer/goatboater on the wave a clear run no matter what the sport. I think this is fairly well adhered to.

Mark _australia
WA, 23454 posts
14 Mar 2015 11:53PM
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^^^ roger

At a classic "proper" wave spot, the guy going out has right of way so he does not get munched.
BUT if he is up and planing well (ie: he has options) he should not use that right of way to hit the peak and get an optimal jump IF a guy is riding the wave and it will fk up the wave ride for the other guy.

IE: wave riding has preference, but the wave rider lets the guy heading out do what he needs to so he does not get fkd over and swim for 10mins...



Kiters need to be aware if a windsurfer is barely planing out in a good bigwave spot, the wind will drop in the break and he will bear away - just as they go DTL............ and it is expected the kiter on the wave will allow the windsurfer to go downwind a bit and the kiter may have to pause his bottom turn

sir ROWDY
WA, 5366 posts
15 Mar 2015 1:14AM
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Most of the time a if a windsurfer is barely planning in the impact zone at a decent wave spot then he's basically a sitting duck... a kiter really couldn't do much in this situation to make it any worse . But I do agree, give the guys some space, you wouldn't even understand how frustrating getting out on a Windsurfer can be if you've only ever Teabagged through the waves.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
15 Mar 2015 8:52AM
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FlickySpinny said..

But just in case you're kiting at a wave spot and a windsurfer coming out gets in your way, They're NOT trying to annoy you.




When I'm fanging down the line on a nice wave,

and you're chugging out thru the main peak at snail's pace,

(Instead of going around via the channel)

GTFO of my way. That's my rule.

Didn't you get my memo ?

lol.

John340
QLD, 3363 posts
15 Mar 2015 11:15AM
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The ignorance and cavalier attitude to the basic rule of sailing safely in company shown by the majority of kiters in this posting is illuminating and reinforces my belief that kitesurfers should be segregated from other water craft. Your a danger to yourself and other sailors around you.

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
15 Mar 2015 12:17PM
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The RULE we run by at our local is simple.
DONT RUN INTO EACH OTHER.
Works well, no one has ever ran into each other, so it seems to work.

When I see a poledancer hardly moving trying to get out in the surf, and Im powering down the line,
I slow down and stall for a bit,
Not to give way,
but to watch the set wave Im on smash them,,lol,,always looks funny, them just standing there(giggle), flapping their sail around furiously(giggle giggle) trying to get moving(giggle giggle giggle) as the lip lands on them.(laughing out of control)....funny stuff

So yes, I do give way to the old polers when they are heading out,
but more for the "funniest home videos" moment thats alway inevitable.

All in good fun polers.

FlickySpinny
WA, 657 posts
15 Mar 2015 10:26AM
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waveslave said..
GTFO of my way. That's my rule.




And exactly how do you propose I do that? Oh, and please try that one next time you're at that famous wave spot up north. Lets see how well that goes for you.

You're the reason I took so long to take up kitesurfing. It turns out that most kiters aren't like you at all - they're friendly AND good company.

Loftywinds
QLD, 2060 posts
15 Mar 2015 3:05PM
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This tread now requires your tin hat folks.

CowboyWA
WA, 55 posts
15 Mar 2015 2:43PM
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Loftywinds said..

Freddofrog said..
Hi all

Was anyone taught this as part of their lessons, eg starboard has right of way? I certainly wasn't (I know it anyway but that is beside the point).

While I think we have our own unwritten rules (upwind kiter flies high), there are other water users apart from kiters.



Did you ever get taught how to walk past other pedestrians on the street?

Goes without saying.


What a ridiculous comment..!

Gorgo
VIC, 5100 posts
15 Mar 2015 6:11PM
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John340 said..
The ignorance and cavalier attitude to the basic rule of sailing safely in company shown by the majority of kiters in this posting is illuminating and reinforces my belief that kitesurfers should be segregated from other water craft. Your a danger to yourself and other sailors around you.


That's a bit rich coming from a windsurfer. You're the crew who blast along in a straight line as fast as you can, passing people on any side within inches, then crash after a lame gybe attempt.

Right of way rules? They only work in yacht races and in marked channels. Even then vessels of different speeds and capabilities adjust to make room for everybody else.

They only way row rules work in a free ride context is if you have sufficient space to signal your intentions and get set up to make a formal passing move. If you have that much space then you don't need rules. If you're so close that you need to rely on rules to avoid collision then you're too close. Ride somewhere else.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
16 Mar 2015 12:08PM
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FlickySpinny said..

waveslave said..
GTFO of my way. That's my rule.



And exactly how do you propose I do that?


Ever heard of the move called a chicken-gybe ?

Learn it well dude.



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"Who was taught right of way rules?" started by Freddofrog