Select to expand quotecauncy said..
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I'm with you. Finally some reasonable solution. On not one occasion I did exactly the same and it worked!
Glad you mentioned it. Thanks.
Select to expand quotedave...... said..
As a person happy to launch someone-elses kite, Im amazed how many riders dont understand the basic physics of the wind window, or are in such a rush they check once and launch 3-4 times. The most dangerous place IS the beach, not the water.
Must admit it's pretty embarrassing when you ask someone to launch your kite but when they flip it over the lines aren't attached.
Launching from the wall in any easterly direction at pelican point is always a bad idea. Walk up the beach towards the sanctuary, but remember not into it!! Kites kill birds!!
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..
Nah mate, I don't think so. If helping someone you're taking a part of responsibility. Or you can easily say NO. Your choice, same as my choice who I will ask for help.
lol don't go there I'm sure you would remember that douch from City Beach going on about being 50% responsible.
Select to expand quotedave...... said..
As a person happy to launch someone-elses kite, Im amazed how many riders dont understand the basic physics of the wind window, or are in such a rush they check once and launch 3-4 times. The most dangerous place IS the beach, not the water.
I am a paraglider pilot. Go figure about the wind window...And rigging, omg, passed this test a long time ago. Doesn't mean I do not make mistakes, not at all. But hoping I'm trained well to mitigate some risks.
Select to expand quote1QAZ2WSX said..
Launching from the wall in any easterly direction at pelican point is always a bad idea. Walk up the beach towards the sanctuary, but remember not into it!! Kites kill birds!!
Yes indeed. Ppl do not realise this and taking this place for granted. But raise a voice is like doing a seppuku:(
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..dave...... said..dbabicwa said..
Go back to school. You forgot about the wind in your diagram which will cause uplift (or side lift in your piccy). .
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Your diagram shows you have no idea. You might know the "how", but no idea on the "why". Please dont take this as a personal attack, you have missed some of the key fundamentals.
Thanks. The pic demonstrates how it looks like when you hold a kite straight in the air, vertically. Try to narrow the kite holding it on a tip.
If you tension a "longer" line ("longer" side of a "triangle"), the kite will push the helper on a left side because the air pressure will shift down causing uplift on the lower side.
If you tension a "shorter" line, the kite will bend above the holding point coz the pressure shifted on upper side. As seen many times.
Only when the lines are of equal length meaning the kite is slightly put under angle you can launch the kite. Agreed?
This pic has nothing to do with the lines but the distance. It is impossible to launch a kite from this pic...Only if you narrow the bar drastically you might (yes, from experience, read below). Basic geometry, not trigonometry or triple integrals.
I've actually did the above once by a mistake. One steering line was shorter by 30-40cm, yes 30-40! And ridden it for 1 hr. Every single turn was a almost a loop. Try it...
It's interesting how raising this question raised so many red thumbs. When someone can actually die or be badly injured it sounds like the pilot is to blame. For the helper holding a kite tip or tripping over.
Sorry but that pic doesn't demonstrate anything. You need to look at the Windzone.
1. Kite is launched downwind and wants to go to the edge of the window. 2. Kite is held by the bottom. 3. The only place for it to go is forward.
4. Take two steps forward. and you get the bottom image. 1&2. the force is pushing both ways equally and the kite doesn't flip and can be launched any way you like.
Your picture is wrong because no matter what the lines are always the same length and the kite will only ever move when the lines are under tension.
When I land my kites on my own I apply tension only to the middle bottom line and walk myself up to the kite. If you think about this for every step forward your position in the wind zone is moving and the tension you apply makes it physically impossible for the kite to drag you anywhere.
So my point is that the Kiter is entirely in control of the launch.
p.s sorry the image is so big and blurry.
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..1QAZ2WSX said..
Launching from the wall in any easterly direction at pelican point is always a bad idea. Walk up the beach towards the sanctuary, but remember not into it!! Kites kill birds!!
Yes indeed. Ppl do not realise this and taking this place for granted. But raise a voice is like doing a seppuku:(
seppuku japanese suicide by disembowelment. Learn something new every day
Select to expand quoteHaydenDekker said..
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Your picture is wrong because no matter what the lines are always the same length and the kite will only ever move when the lines are under tension.
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You are not taking into account the height distance between the upper tip on a 12m or bigger and the rider as per pic. It has nothing to do with the wind but how helper holds a kite - on a tip in the air. Only when the kite is in a CYAN position the lines are the same length.
But to get the same length:
- look what happens with RED and GREEN. The kite will almost always break on green point if you pull just a lower line or upper will push the helper away in RED direction.
And this my friend is not happening when you self launch of a beach coz no one is holding your kite. There is no break point.
2. Kite is held by the bottom - Yes, if there is a bottom! Again, only if your lines are equally tensioned.
Try to imagine a 3rd option in MAGENTA. This is impossible situation to tackle without pushing the helper to the left. It is his/her choice to hold a kite like that. So no, this is not your call.
I've seen this so many times that it's not funny...So go and red thumb it but at least think how you helping.
I urge you to try launching by holding a kite vertically and on a tip in the air with you at least 2.5m below the lower tip with 30m lines.
Last post, good bye.
I had a guy go to launch me this way a few weeks ago. It certainly does fek things up a bit
I just yelled at him "HOLD IT IN THE MIDDLE!!" and he did.. problem solved.
PS. I was standing downwind enough when he began raising kite so no dramas. Always start from downwind and make your way around to launching posi and keep a good eye on the launcher (especially if dont know them) and shout instructions if necessary.
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..HaydenDekker said..
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Your picture is wrong because no matter what the lines are always the same length and the kite will only ever move when the lines are under tension.
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You are not taking into account the height distance between the upper tip on a 12m or bigger and the rider as per pic. It has nothing to do with the wind but how helper holds a kite - on a tip in the air. Only when the kite is in a CYAN position the lines are the same length.
But to get the same length:
- look what happens with RED and GREEN. The kite will almost always break on green point if you pull just a lower line or upper will push the helper away in RED direction.
And this my friend is not happening when you self launch of a beach coz no one is holding your kite. There is no break point.
2. Kite is held by the bottom - Yes, if there is a bottom! Again, only if your lines are equally tensioned.
Try to imagine a 3rd option in MAGENTA. This is impossible situation to tackle without pushing the helper to the left. It is his/her choice to hold a kite like that. So no, this is not your call.
I've seen this so many times that it's not funny...So go and red thumb it but at least think how you helping.
I urge you to try launching by holding a kite vertically and on a tip in the air with you at least 2.5m below the lower tip with 30m lines.
Last post, good bye.
The line lengths never change. They can't!! Grab one meter of string and screw it up into a ball and it's still one meter in length hehe. You confusing length with tension. And the kite will only move if two lines are under tension.
Again, you are the one making it flip over the top of the launcher.
Select to expand quoteHaydenDekker said..dbabicwa said..HaydenDekker said..
.
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Your picture is wrong because no matter what the lines are always the same length and the kite will only ever move when the lines are under tension.
.
.
You are not taking into account the height distance between the upper tip on a 12m or bigger and the rider as per pic. It has nothing to do with the wind but how helper holds a kite - on a tip in the air. Only when the kite is in a CYAN position the lines are the same length.
But to get the same length:
- look what happens with RED and GREEN. The kite will almost always break on green point if you pull just a lower line or upper will push the helper away in RED direction.
And this my friend is not happening when you self launch of a beach coz no one is holding your kite. There is no break point.
2. Kite is held by the bottom - Yes, if there is a bottom! Again, only if your lines are equally tensioned.
Try to imagine a 3rd option in MAGENTA. This is impossible situation to tackle without pushing the helper to the left. It is his/her choice to hold a kite like that. So no, this is not your call.
I've seen this so many times that it's not funny...So go and red thumb it but at least think how you helping.
I urge you to try launching by holding a kite vertically and on a tip in the air with you at least 2.5m below the lower tip with 30m lines.
Last post, good bye.
The line lengths never change. They can't!! Grab one meter of string and screw it up into a ball and it's still one meter in length hehe. You confusing length with tension. And the kite will only move if two lines are under tension.
Again, you are the one making it flip over the top of the launcher.
Spot On!
Select to expand quoteDANEgerous said..HaydenDekker said..dbabicwa said..HaydenDekker said..
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Your picture is wrong because no matter what the lines are always the same length and the kite will only ever move when the lines are under tension.
.
.
I've seen this so many times that it's not funny...So go and red thumb it but at least think how you helping.
I urge you to try launching by holding a kite vertically and on a tip in the air with you at least 2.5m below the lower tip with 30m lines.
Last post, good bye.
The line lengths never change. They can't!! Grab one meter of string and screw it up into a ball and it's still one meter in length hehe. You confusing length with tension. And the kite will only move if two lines are under tension.
Again, you are the one making it flip over the top of the launcher.
This ^
Spot On!
and that ^
Select to expand quotedefault said..
I had a guy go to launch me this way a few weeks ago. It certainly does fek things up a bit
I just yelled at him "HOLD IT IN THE MIDDLE!!" and he did.. problem solved.
PS. I was standing downwind enough when he began raising kite so no dramas. Always start from downwind and make your way around to launching posi and keep a good eye on the launcher (especially if dont know them) and shout instructions if necessary.
Hold it in the middle, stay upwind of the lines
My wife can do it
And she's a chick
It does not make sense to hold the kite at the tip unless you intend to throw it into the air. As the person holding onto the kite you have no control or balance by holding it in any other position but the middle strut.
the main reason I have done it are to get the kite up above shrubs or fences when the beach is too small but there are others.
It kind of sounds like the bloke launching may have been a photographer and only had one hand free (just a guess)
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..
You are not taking into account the height distance between the upper tip on a 12m or bigger and the rider as per pic. It has nothing to do with the wind but how helper holds a kite - on a tip in the air. Only when the kite is in a CYAN position the lines are the same length.
But to get the same length:
- look what happens with RED and GREEN. The kite will almost always break on green point if you pull just a lower line or upper will push the helper away in RED direction.
And this my friend is not happening when you self launch of a beach coz no one is holding your kite. There is no break point.
2. Kite is held by the bottom - Yes, if there is a bottom! Again, only if your lines are equally tensioned.
Try to imagine a 3rd option in MAGENTA. This is impossible situation to tackle without pushing the helper to the left. It is his/her choice to hold a kite like that. So no, this is not your call.
I've seen this so many times that it's not funny...So go and red thumb it but at least think how you helping.
I urge you to try launching by holding a kite vertically and on a tip in the air with you at least 2.5m below the lower tip with 30m lines.
Last post, good bye.
I see the problem. The guy you asked to help has very short legs and unusually long arms. Are you sure it was infact a human? perhaps it was a well dressed white handed Gibbon? If so this explains alot.
efossils.org/book/arms-legs
I think it is unrealistic to expect a Gibbon to launch your kite.
Whats more it appears that you are missing your legs and your arms are unusually short. Unusually short arms will limit your ability to control the kite. Combine this with your complete lack of lower torso I feel you have placed an unreasonanble amount of pressure on this south american white handed Gibbon which clearly will have a complete lack of lei launching experience.
I think its nice that a stranger will take the time and effort and try to help you launch.If you are not a kiter the size of a kite could be overwhelming to the average joe.
I agree with plummet.
I normally ask the closest monkey to hold it in the middle, I am happy for the kite to touch the sand. In fact I want it to touch the sand, so the monkey can maintain control of the kite.
Nothing worse than standing directly upwind, watching my kite folding over, whilst the monkey gets tangled in my lines, and I try a hot launch my kite the hell out of there.
