Not sure what you mean by blowing out the LE, but the bladder/fabric of the LE didn't incur any damage. Just the canopy tearing out of the LE a little.
BigEZ, what you describe is certainly possible, but I didn't notice a high-velocity slam on the water. However I had my head under the water at the time, so nor can I deny it. I didn't get pulled downwind during the crash, which makes me think it didn't power up going across the window. As such, another possibility I considered was that the rip occurred whilst in the air, hence the kite falling, and me not being subjected to it powering up in the zone. I was surprised to see it drop out of the sky, but on the other hand I'm still new to jumps so the result of overflying would probably also have surprised me! It was directly downwind of me, which I guess supports your theory.
Why couldn't the same result occur from a low-impact water crash in the context of a kite with a manufacturing defect from the seam, such as a blunt needle causing a hole larger than the thread? It's certainly plausible that defective quality control could bring about this situation. Of course it's also plausible that I hadn't noticed a pin-hole; I just can't believe it because it was so new and I had looked after it like my newborn child!
I've seen kites do the same thing with low-impact forces... thank goodness they had top-notch and epic service!
Select to expand quotehowesy said..
Not sure what you mean by blowing out the LE, but the bladder/fabric of the LE didn't incur any damage. Just the canopy tearing out of the LE a little.
BigEZ, what you describe is certainly possible, but I didn't notice a high-velocity slam on the water. However I had my head under the water at the time, so nor can I deny it. I didn't get pulled downwind during the crash, which makes me think it didn't power up going across the window. As such, another possibility I considered was that the rip occurred whilst in the air, hence the kite falling, and me not being subjected to it powering up in the zone. I was surprised to see it drop out of the sky, but on the other hand I'm still new to jumps so the result of overflying would probably also have surprised me! It was directly downwind of me, which I guess supports your theory.
Why couldn't the same result occur from a low-impact water crash in the context of a kite with a manufacturing defect from the seam, such as a blunt needle causing a hole larger than the thread? It's certainly plausible that defective quality control could bring about this situation. Of course it's also plausible that I hadn't noticed a pin-hole; I just can't believe it because it was so new and I had looked after it like my newborn child!
I would say it would be very very rare for a kite to rip mid air and I have never heard about or witnessed such an event before. I've had rips in the canopy that have been over 10cm's in length that i haven't noticed while flying and even they haven't ripped in mid air during the session of boosting and crashing the kite. For a tear such as this straight down the middle of the kite and through the trailing edge screams significant force.
Just one of those things
Send it to Kitepower (nsw), moti levi (qld) or horizon sails (vic) for repair and get back on the water. Sucks, but life goes on!
Select to expand quotehowesy said..
Not sure what you mean by blowing out the LE, but the bladder/fabric of the LE didn't incur any damage. Just the canopy tearing out of the LE a little.
BigEZ, what you describe is certainly possible, but I didn't notice a high-velocity slam on the water. However I had my head under the water at the time, so nor can I deny it. I didn't get pulled downwind during the crash, which makes me think it didn't power up going across the window. As such, another possibility I considered was that the rip occurred whilst in the air, hence the kite falling, and me not being subjected to it powering up in the zone. I was surprised to see it drop out of the sky, but on the other hand I'm still new to jumps so the result of overflying would probably also have surprised me! It was directly downwind of me, which I guess supports your theory.
Why couldn't the same result occur from a low-impact water crash in the context of a kite with a manufacturing defect from the seam, such as a blunt needle causing a hole larger than the thread? It's certainly plausible that defective quality control could bring about this situation. Of course it's also plausible that I hadn't noticed a pin-hole; I just can't believe it because it was so new and I had looked after it like my newborn child!
When the LE blows out it makes a helll of a pop and explodes like a gunshot
Mate, if that was my kite I’d be trying to state my case to the manufacturer again. I’m no expert with this kind of thing but I reckon the position of that tear should be in your favour. If it had have ripped on clean material I’d say bad luck but because it ripped on the stitch line I’d say it’s more likely to be a manufacture fault than damage from you. If I’m looking at the picture correctly you can see the jiggered rip on the orange material above the LE matches the stitch pattern on the black patch so it must have started tearing at that point. If you had damaged that area you would have expected to see a mark on the patch, the layer of material under the rip or the bladder itself. I know nothing can be proven but the odds should be on your side with this one...
Select to expand quotetomme said...
When the LE blows out it makes a helll of a pop and explodes like a gunshot
I've actually seen a Best Waroo do that in flight; luckily I was looking right at the kite when it happened : o
windreams, I completely agree about the jagged edge tessellating with the pattern of the seam. This to me looks like a line of weakness. Unfortunately I don't think the manufacturer will have the same viewpoint. Does anyone have any pointers on 'getting them to listen' rather than just repeating the same party line about a pinhole?
Howesy, if you’re ok with word documents I’d add your photos to one, chuck a few text boxes in with arrows and use the evidence in the photo’s to back up your theory on it ripping at that stitch line under the black patch. Email it to the manufacturer and cc your retail shop or vice versa (not sure what correspondence you have had with either). At the end of the day they could revert back to the line of not covering this type of mishap but if their a company that has pride in their name they should do one of 2 things, counter your argument or give you a good will repair/ replacement. Good luck...
This is what airush say
www.airush.com/2014/warranty/
Airush Warrantees any of our products to be free of major manufacturing defects in materials or workmanship to the original purchaser for a period of 1 year for kites, soft goods, and sandwich construction boards (surf directional?s) and 2 years for twin-tip boards, excluding FS TEAM (1 year). This excludes any wear components that have been subjected to normal wear and tear.
THE WARRANTY IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS
Please contact your Airush Retailer or Distributor to process a warranty claim.
You must submit a proof of purchase from an Authorized and Recognized Airush Dealer
The warranty is valid ONLY when the warranty item has been purchased from an authorized dealer or distributor.
Any Airush product purchased on E-Bay or similar auction websites is NOT covered under warranty.
The warranty is valid only when the product is used under normal recreational activities.
The warranty is valid only when the proper Airush warranty procedure has been followed as defined in the Airush Warranty Protocol.
Airush will make the warranty determination only after inspection and/or analysis of photos of the product clearly showing the defect.
If a product is deemed to be defective by Airush, the warranty covers the repair or replacement of the defective product only. Airush is not responsible for any cost, losses, or damages incurred as a result of loss of use of the product.
The warranty does not cover damage caused by misuse, abuse, neglect of normal wear and tear including but not limited to, punctures, rigging with non-Airush components, damage due to excessive sun or wind exposure or seam failure due to over-inflation, damage caused by improper handling and storage, damages caused by crashing in waves or shore break and damage caused by anything other than defects in materials and workmanship.
The warranty is void if any unauthorized repair, change or modification, has been made to any part of the equipment.
The warranty for any repair or replacement equipment is good from only the date of the original purchase.
The original purchase receipt must accompany all warranty claims. The name of the retailer and date of purchase must be clear and legible.
There are no warranties that extend beyond what has been specified here.
AIRUSH WARRANTY PROTOCOL
The distributor must follow the protocol for all warranty claims stated below.
THE DISTRIBUTOR PROVIDES
Completed warranty form that includes a detailed explanation of the damage/fault and a full description of how it happened.
Proof of purchase showing when the customer purchased the product.
Photos showing the detail of the fault.
Photos showing the serial number of the board
In the case of a repair credit note (RCN), the distributor must send a copy of the repair invoice. RCN?s will only be reimbursed at fair market value for the labor and material of the repair. When the claim form and all documentations are submitted the claim will be reviewed and a decision will be made in a timely manner.
If the claim is accepted, the distributor will be offered a replacement or full credit note (FCN), repair credit note (RCN), or discount credit note (DCN).
Any replacement items will be included in the next possible shipment. Airush Kiteboarding is not responsible for freight charges for any replacement items.
KITES ? COVERED
Damage due to poor or faulty stitching
Blemishes in the printing on the kite
KITES- NOT COVERED
Damage due to crashing on land or water
Damage due to over-inflation
Damage due to improper care or storage
BOARDS ? COVERED
Structural cracks on fiberglass top sheet, base, core, edge, sidewall and inserts
Lamination failure of top sheet, base, sidewall, or edge
Stripped or spinning inserts. (Note: Inserts that are stripped due to improper
mounting are repairable, but are not considered a material flaw)
BOARDS ? NOT COVERED
Damage due to jumping (all sandwich technology boards)
Damage due to impact
I'm sure you will find all brands will have similar warranty info on there website
Ps been riding airush for ten years and only had one warranty claim on a board and it was sorted quickly
That is a pretty clear overview from airrush, the board coverage is quite good reading that
Select to expand quotehowesy said..
windreams, I completely agree about the jagged edge tessellating with the pattern of the seam. This to me looks like a line of weakness. Unfortunately I don't think the manufacturer will have the same viewpoint. Does anyone have any pointers on 'getting them to listen' rather than just repeating the same party line about a pinhole?
Unfortunately this is part of kiting, there wouldn't be a brand out there that hasn't had a similar warranty claim made. It is not a warranty, ripstop and heavier(trailing edge) dacron do not just rip, at the leading edge you had created enough force to tear out the ripstop which is sandwiched between 2 other layers, find an old kite and try and do that, it takes a fair amount of strength, this has continued across the kite, with still enough force to tear the heavy trailing edge with enough force to separate even at the leach line. Send it off for repair, get back on the water and enjoy your kiting.
Select to expand quotepumpnjump said...howesy said..
windreams, I completely agree about the jagged edge tessellating with the pattern of the seam. This to me looks like a line of weakness. Unfortunately I don't think the manufacturer will have the same viewpoint. Does anyone have any pointers on 'getting them to listen' rather than just repeating the same party line about a pinhole?
Unfortunately this is part of kiting, there wouldn't be a brand out there that hasn't had a similar warranty claim made. It is not a warranty, ripstop and heavier(trailing edge) dacron do not just rip, at the leading edge you had created enough force to tear out the ripstop which is sandwiched between 2 other layers, find an old kite and try and do that, it takes a fair amount of strength, this has continued across the kite, with still enough force to tear the heavy trailing edge with enough force to separate even at the leach line. Send it off for repair, get back on the water and enjoy your kiting.
This is silly advice... Yes it takes considerable force to tear ripstop like that, But only if it is free of defects. If it had been incorrectly stitched it would rip far more easily.
Also, I have crashed kite LE first into the water lots of times, straight through the wind window, even with unpatched pinholes in the material and have never had this happen to me.
I think from looking at the photos that he at least has a good argument for warranty.
Select to expand quoteBeersy said..pumpnjump said...howesy said..
windreams, I completely agree about the jagged edge tessellating with the pattern of the seam. This to me looks like a line of weakness. Unfortunately I don't think the manufacturer will have the same viewpoint. Does anyone have any pointers on 'getting them to listen' rather than just repeating the same party line about a pinhole?
Unfortunately this is part of kiting, there wouldn't be a brand out there that hasn't had a similar warranty claim made. It is not a warranty, ripstop and heavier(trailing edge) dacron do not just rip, at the leading edge you had created enough force to tear out the ripstop which is sandwiched between 2 other layers, find an old kite and try and do that, it takes a fair amount of strength, this has continued across the kite, with still enough force to tear the heavy trailing edge with enough force to separate even at the leach line. Send it off for repair, get back on the water and enjoy your kiting.
This is silly advice... Yes it takes considerable force to tear ripstop like that, But only if it is free of defects. If it had been incorrectly stitched it would rip far more easily.
Also, I have crashed kite LE first into the water lots of times, straight through the wind window, even with unpatched pinholes in the material and have never had this happen to me.
I think from looking at the photos that he at least has a good argument for warranty.
Look closely at the first photo, the force had torn out the canopy material from the stitching, such great force it has even torn the secondary layer(white ) ripstop underneath, there is nothing faulty with the stitching or cloth, just a lack of acceptance of the risk of damage when you go out, in 15 years of kiting I have ripped 5 kites in half, would hate to think how many i have owned, still its a pretty cheap sport in comparison with many. If you can't accept the risk do something else.
The Best Kite - The tears starting below the reinforcement are a manufacturing fault for sure. That's a return / not fit for purpose (regardless of what their US warranty states).
The Core kites - Look a lot more suss in terms of workmanship failure.
The good news - All 3 look like easy repairs (the tears don't extend in to the leading edge). A decent sewing machine and $10 of sail tape would repair all 3. Sending it away would also be a cheap repair.
Option 1 - Stick to your rights, would take some time and stress, but you would suceed.
Option 2 - Inform Best that you are sending the kite back for repair (consumer law says the manufacturer would pay this cost), send the bill.
Option 3 - Take the $60 - $100 repair on the chin, get your kite back asap, get back on the horse.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Having had my initial warranty request rejected, I then sent Best another photo showing the jagged nature of the tear next to the seam by the LE (as suggested by Windreams) and stated my case again. To their credit, Best have agreed to pay for the repair; I intend to get it repaired to 'as new' standard (have sent to Moti Levy on advice from this forum & others).
Although it took some persistence, I'm satisfied with the outcome which I think is the best I could have expected.
Thanks again for the community's comments and support!
I did that to mine new years eve two years ago after lself anding the kite for a rest it flew up 2 m and slammed the leading edge it ripped edge to tail and along the l/e aswell, got it proffesiinly repaired $110 and it takes me a while to find the repair and it flies like new even after two years. If you have crashed your kite I doubt any warranty will cover it unless it is a fault in the manufacturing process. Get it repaired get back on the water
I got my kite fixed, good as new - I didn't even really look at the warranty because I thought you'd have to send it somewhere and I didn't wanna miss out on good sessions lol.
Select to expand quotehowesy said..
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Having had my initial warranty request rejected, I then sent Best another photo showing the jagged nature of the tear next to the seam by the LE (as suggested by Windreams) and stated my case again. To their credit, Best have agreed to pay for the repair; I intend to get it repaired to 'as new' standard (have sent to Moti Levy on advice from this forum & others).
Although it took some persistence, I'm satisfied with the outcome which I think is the best I could have expected.
Thanks again for the community's comments and support!
That's a great outcome, as I have said there was no way this was a warranty, but fair play to Best for covering the cost of repair, customer service as it should be.
Warranty or not any damage on a new kite is heartbreaking especially for those newer to the sport. But you get over it eventually despite realising that the resale value drops with every repair. As time goes on it gets easier.
Doesn't matter how careful you are, s#*t happens regardless. I rarely crash my kites but recently while on holiday I entered the water just inside the mouth of a tidal creek in calm conditions. Little did I realise that the sand on the bottom was like quick sand. As one of my legs sunk deeply, it forced me into an uncontrollable lopsided twist and my brand new kite hit the sand behind me. The impact was not hard by any means but there was a whole heap of coral spawn & sharp shells all over the sand. Bang LE was ripped. I was so pissed off. I got the kite repaired but it took me about 3 months to forgive myself for something so stupid. But now I've got a whole heap of scratches on the LE.
Hi Howsey and others, i found the photos of the rip on oli's kite very similar to yours and went about half way between LE and tail also a pic of the valve stem that does not hold secure in the LE, any thoughts it's OK once you get a few pumps in could this cause an issue down the track. i have reseated bladder fittings on our LF before, have inspected and compared with the kahoona and can't spot an obvious cause or solution other than a dab of sika.
I did go to best with this and went for the quickest solution. I know the truth will be stretched at times but any premature failures that occur would be good for the forum, consumers and manufacturers.
Select to expand quotenugs said..
But now I've got a whole heap of scratches on the LE.
Do what I did with my kites. Get two rolls of ripstop tape (any color or colour of your LE) and put the kite inflated down on your backyard.
Note the contact points of the kite to the ground. Where they touch with a texta mark a tiny dot next to the contact point and maybe a few dots to know where it starts and ends.
Next take out your ripstop tape and cut sections to cover those contact points.
Next, get some nylon mesh or fishing net with 5mm gaps or less and again cut out sections to match your contact point areas.
Clean the areas with alcohol swaps. A box of 100 for under $15 at most chemists.
Apply AqualSeal or some other appropriate glue to the mesh over those contact points and squeegy it out with a firm piece of plastic card or spatula (but be careful not to damage the kite). Spread the glue all over the mesh and a bit over.
When dry, apply your ripstop tape over the lot. Make sure you've cut out each corner to be rounded!
Do it again (apply two layers of ripstop), but the 2nd layer make it larger than the first. Maybe even apply a 3rd layer.
You now have extra protection on your LE kite where it contacts the ground.
Over time, replace the ripstop tape.
Safe LE!
Enjoy.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..nugs said..
But now I've got a whole heap of scratches on the LE.
Do what I did with my kites. Get two rolls of ripstop tape (any color or colour of your LE) and put the kite inflated down on your backyard.
Note the contact points of the kite to the ground. Where they touch with a texta mark a tiny dot next to the contact point and maybe a few dots to know where it starts and ends.
Next take out your ripstop tape and cut sections to cover those contact points.
Next, get some nylon mesh or fishing net with 5mm gaps or less and again cut out sections to match your contact point areas.
Clean the areas with alcohol swaps. A box of 100 for under $15 at most chemists.
Apply AqualSeal or some other appropriate glue to the mesh over those contact points and squeegy it out with a firm piece of plastic card or spatula (but be careful not to damage the kite). Spread the glue all over the mesh and a bit over.
When dry, apply your ripstop tape over the lot. Make sure you've cut out each corner to be rounded!
Do it again (apply two layers of ripstop), but the 2nd layer make it larger than the first. Maybe even apply a 3rd layer.
You now have extra protection on your LE kite where it contacts the ground.
Over time, replace the ripstop tape.
Safe LE!
Enjoy.
pics?
Select to expand quoterayoli said..
Hi Howsey and others, i found the photos of the rip on oli's kite very similar to yours and went about half way between LE and tail also a pic of the valve stem that does not hold secure in the LE, any thoughts it's OK once you get a few pumps in could this cause an issue down the track. i have reseated bladder fittings on our LF before, have inspected and compared with the kahoona and can't spot an obvious cause or solution other than a dab of sika.
I did go to best with this and went for the quickest solution. I know the truth will be stretched at times but any premature failures that occur would be good for the forum, consumers and manufacturers.
This to me looks like a design failure.. based on the fact that the rip originates at the intersection of 3 sewing lines and then follows one of the sewing lines intersecting with the apexes of the zigzag toward the trailing edge. Was a warranty claim lodged and what did they say?
Yes i had direct contact with best after some local contact with the seller and another best dealer, with the photos above. No help from the manufacturer
on either issue. So went to my local sailmaker rather than waste more time and freight, rip repaired in a couple of days, far from as new repair not real pretty as long as it holds. The valve stem we'll go on living with.
Wish i had the name of the best rep i dealt with but was changing PC's and from XP to W8 at the time.
P.s last w-end at our local a learner fling a 13 kahoona 10M in an honest 20 was crashing LE big time and doing everything you can to kill a kite and it survived. After that i am sure our TS should have survived longer than the first crash in it's intended use canopy or not.
That is def the shabbiest repair I have ever seen.
Amateur hour at its finest and all for saving a few bucks on postage!
Next time send it to Hold the line and you will reap the rewards and be very happy..
