Judging a wave comp/strapps versus none

When we judge a kite surf comp how much value should we put on an unstrapped reo versus an identical strapped reo????
According to the PKRA .An un strapped rider has no advantage but this must be factored into the difficulty of doing critical maneuvers. So if a strapped rider does a good vert reo then its a mid range score. But if it was unstrapped it would be low range excellent??? Ideas please

I agree Jedibrad. Forget strapped/unstrapped just reduce the score depending on how much the kite has an effect on the manoeuvre.
Now that I say that I can see someone entering a comp without a kite and winning

I am totally with sugar cube. I know this subject to be polarised, divisive and controversial but am going to say it anyway. Here's my two bob's worth.

Certainly in a typical WA context [side slightly onshore] with straps on you can, with good timing, wave positioning and kite control launch huge downwind airs landing back on or in front of the wave and then do it again. 360s forward and back, reverse landings into 360, handle passes, these are all possible to those with the talent. The sport has become polarised into those who do these moves on flatwater on twin tips and those riding strapless surfboards that more or less, are stuck on the water. The strapless guys can do big upwind airs because the wind holds the board under your feet, but downwind the opposite effect occurs, and the board wants to blow off your feet. You could grab it, but then you would have to leave the bar unattended and the kite would be out of position for another turn, end of wave ride. To be fair the I see that the best strapless guys [and only the best] can land very small downwind airs by extending their legs to stay in contact with the board.

I have to be honest and says that in my view 95% of riders have taken off the foot straps way too early. It would have been better if they had learned to turn first. The best guys strapless all got into it before strapless was the fashion, and were already hitting it pretty hard. I have been kiting since the start, or at least since kite had two lines and twintips hadn't been invented. Back then 'big air' was not the dirty word it is today. Call it the cultural cringe factor, which is caused by the overarching 'cool' factor that surfing has accumulated [mainly clever orchestrated by large surf wear manufacturers who sell clothes to the non surfing masses in New York, Paris and London with the message "buy this and you will be cool too".] but then some [as exhibited here] on the wave riding side of the sport are saying if you're using the kite to put some more juice into your turns that is a bad technique. Surely the ultimate progression of that would be to just throw the kite away and go back to surfing. Don't het me wrong I love surfing too, but surfing is what it is, it is not kitesurfing.

Well personally if am being uncool, well f--k it, then I love being uncool. I am sure I am too old to make the uncool, cool, but to paraphrase the RRD logo, I hope I was 'uncool, before uncool was cool'. Give me my footstraps, my hat, my seat harness, my non surfclothes, my Target boardies, my boring middle of the road [but cheap and practical] hatchback. Oh and I do actually like to watch windsurfing in waves. There I've said it I'm out, no longer a closet 'windsurfophile'. In fact the only s--t that matters is what happens next when you drop down the face of that wave. Only you can't just go out and buy that of course it takes years of practice.

Call them training wheels if you like but many riders are trying to run before they walk and frankly it looks like s--t, and will continue to look like s--t because such said riders keep reinforcing through repetition the poor basic depowered technique required to keep an average rider on a board strapless in Perth conditions. Those least enamoured of strapless seem to me, to be those whose competence at real surfing [thinking of some of the down south crew here] leaves them with nothing to prove on a surfboard and they actually want something new and different that turns crap surfing conditions into a playground.

Everyone harps on about it been necessary for our sport to be more like 'real' surfing. Why, why, why ?? To my point of view , I, like Sugar Qube, think that denies the greatest potential of our sport, which is in the AIR. We need a new to combine powered wave riding with huge aerial moves or are we to continue to look like a crap second rate version of surfing?

I think and always have that they are different disciplines neither are more right or wrong than the other just different and should be seen as such

There are those that blow up with a huge variety of strapped tricks and they stand out as there are also with the unstrapped crew. Both sides also have masses of the average and predictable level commonly exhibited.

Those who are truly good at either standout keep the styles separate don't bother comparing or damning peoples choice. The competition thing should never be mixed the same stupid argument has being going on for too long,

i do agree with sunny boy. But i think its good to get some feed back so that we can be fair when we judge a comp. If you want a national event we need a out line of the scoring system.
Lets not get confused with free style wave surfing(see leo loro who to me is the best in Aus) I think there is room for both but in a WAVE comp you should get judged on the way you ride the wave/critical maneuvers/flow/degree of difficulty ect.I am not trying to get caught up in bull ****. just trying to get a system that every one is happy with.

Maybe having a set criteria prior to an event and advising the riders of your expectations is the key. Asking these questions post event makes a farce of kite surfing events that are undertaken to promote this sport, it also wastes the time of riders who choose to compete. If judges do not know the criteria regardless of whether people are strapped or unset rapped, what is the point in competing.its a bit bitter / sweet for everyone involved ! I acknowledge the efforts of KBV but judges and judging criteria should be based on critical moves on a wave, rather than time spent on a wave.

Exactly, let the type of wave and wind conditions dictate which style is worthy of a better score

If it was a smooth flowing wave it should be ridden that way and scored high,

And if it's more like victory at sea, then strap in and let loose

For me there is no us and them, just common-sense?. light wind and smooth waves = unstrapped, choppy, windy and big = strapped

Well I would like to see a comp with equal points going out boosting and coming back wave riding.
Why try to be like a surfer? We are kitesurfers.

Slam some moves on the way out over the waves and then shred some waves on the way in. That is what wave riding is all about for me.

Even better boost to land on the face to wave ride to boost off it again.

and what about unhooked or switch? id want far more points for the holy trinity,

Switch, strapless, unhooked

In reality if you ride switch it shouldn't affect judging unless there is some demonstration of riding down the line both front&back hand fluently, I personally ride switch 90%, some people don't ride with straps as they may have exhausted their potential and thus lending towards a more technical area, same goes with unhooking.

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Jedibrad said..

Exactly, let the type of wave and wind conditions dictate which style is worthy of a better score

If it was a smooth flowing wave it should be ridden that way and scored high,

And if it's more like victory at sea, then strap in and let loose

For me there is no us and them, just common-sense?. light wind and smooth waves = unstrapped, choppy, windy and big = strapped

The 2010 PKRA Wave event in Tenerife was probably the best competition example of cross onshore waves with very strong winds.
The riders put their straps on and adapted to the conditions.

What about hooked Vs unhooked???

* Famous Quote: "Lose the straps, kook."

One day,

A marketing guy had a vision,

a light-bulb experience,

an ah-hah moment,

a mental image in his head ...

A thousand core surfers flying kites in waves,

A cunning scheme to turn all surfers into kiters,

A massive cross-over, a sexy change.

The plan was simple enough,

JUST ADD KITE,

(and a harness lol)

Surfer dudes already had boards and stuff,

and the necessary riding skills,

this was pure freakin genius.

Except the pipe dream never became reality ...

cause core surfers generally hate wind,

even offshore wind,

they dig calm,

glass, oil, treacle.

You know, it could have been a nightmare,

Lucky for us core kiters the evil plan failed.

But from that very moment on,

the mishmash of competitive kitesurfing in waves,

was forever doomed. THE END

i

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Plummet said..

surfingboye said..

Plummet said..

Well I would like to see a comp with equal points going out boosting and coming back wave riding.
Why try to be like a surfer? We are kitesurfers.

Slam some moves on the way out over the waves and then shred some waves on the way in. That is what wave riding is all about for me.

Even better boost to land on the face to wave ride to boost off it again.

thats dogstyle isnt it???
YAWNNNNNNNNNNN...
lol.

There will come a time when the "cool" people realise that kite surfing like a kiter is much more fun, enjoyable and dynamic than pretending to be a surfer or a wakeboarder. The cool sheep will follow and the style of the comps will change.

To be honest I don't really give a shiit. I'll never enter a kitingsurfing comp of any fashion. I've done my years of competing racing mountainbikes.
Now I just indulge in what ever makes me grin. Regardless of whether is cool or not.

dont know why you keep trying to push this point of yours...
do what you like and who cares what the rest (the "cool" people as you say) are doing.
what is fun to you, may different to what i call fun.

for someone who doesnt care about what everyone thinks, you are always making a point of how good this 'dogstyling' is...
lol.

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surfingboye said..

i

Plummet said..

surfingboye said..

Plummet said..

Well I would like to see a comp with equal points going out boosting and coming back wave riding.
Why try to be like a surfer? We are kitesurfers.

Slam some moves on the way out over the waves and then shred some waves on the way in. That is what wave riding is all about for me.

Even better boost to land on the face to wave ride to boost off it again.

thats dogstyle isnt it???
YAWNNNNNNNNNNN...
lol.

There will come a time when the "cool" people realise that kite surfing like a kiter is much more fun, enjoyable and dynamic than pretending to be a surfer or a wakeboarder. The cool sheep will follow and the style of the comps will change.

To be honest I don't really give a shiit. I'll never enter a kitingsurfing comp of any fashion. I've done my years of competing racing mountainbikes.
Now I just indulge in what ever makes me grin. Regardless of whether is cool or not.

dont know why you keep trying to push this point of yours...
do what you like and who cares what the rest (the "cool" people as you say) are doing.
what is fun to you, may different to what i call fun.

for someone who doesnt care about what everyone thinks, you are always making a point of how good this 'dogstyling' is...
lol.

Well actually that wasn't my point.

What i was trying to say is score your wave riding on the way out and in. Why only score half your riding? On the way out there's tones of stuff to be done. That could a weirdo like me riding a mutant, or it could be a strapless guy boosting a sweet rotation over a wave lip or a dude on a strapped surfboard punting a massive jump with an extended foot out.

What I am advocating is riding like a kiter. Sure, throw down some wake style, ride a wave down the line smash a massive boost and if your so inclined crank a megaloop.

That is what I want to see... No idea how you would judge such a comp. But it would be wicked.

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SugarQube said..

TurtleHunter said..

I agree Jedibrad. Forget strapped/unstrapped just reduce the score depending on how much the kite has an effect on the manoeuvre.
Now that I say that I can see someone entering a comp without a kite and winning

See thats an interesting coment Turtlehunter, because it seems we are then judjing a kitesurf comp as a surf comp, which is the way things are going. I would like to see more unique kite specific moves score higher and finaly progress to a sport not billed as the poor cousin of surfing. bring on strapped rotations handlepasses mega boosts on a wave face landing back on the wave and continuing to slash, thats my dream, and as long as we have surf culture dominating with the old strapped / unstrapped discussions, there will be no progress for kite surfing.
So its time we get away from the marketing driven image of strapless being the one and all.

maybe more exactly the rider should be scored on how well they use the wave and the power created by it. (we are talking wave comp)
Not saying there isn't room for all that spinny crap but a reo and a drop without too much power from the kite looks a lot more fluid than a slash and yank from the kite.