RoberNaish,
If you liked the Pivot then a Lithium with fly closer to this than the Cat.
But the big thing here I think is that both the Cat and Lithium have changed very little in 2013, 2014, 2015.
If price is a big thing for you (it is for many including me) then start hunting the buy and sell for ex demo, hardly used 2013/2014 kites.
Select to expand quoteRobertNaish said..
Hi Guys
In the 5 years that i have been kiting i have only ever ridden 2 Brands of Kite. North Rebel and Naish Park.
Although i have been happy with them in general , the time has come to buy new again and i am trying to justify the extra expense that these brands seem to demand .
I pay for my gear and usually get a good discount from my local as i have bought all of my gear there for the last 5 years ( 9 kites ,4 boards , SUP , etc )
i am trying to work out if it is worth paying the $2500 (retail ) for a North or Naish when something like and Airush or even an Ozone can be up to $500.00 cheaper .
I even try to justify to myself that i will keep it for years ......but that never happens and a 12 month old $2500 kite is worth the same as a 12 month old $1900.00 kite......
Please dont tell me that North are the best constructed kites out there as i have had trouble with both the kites and boards failing and will not buy another North Product out of principle.
Do you really get what you pay for ?
I am considering buying either Airush Lithium or Ozone Catalyst this year and am trying to arrange a demo of each. The problem is that i have demoed a Naish Pivot and found it to be excellent........$2500 kite.
Do either of the other kites have similar performance ?
I am an old man who loves old school boosting and freeriding with a bit of wave riding as well and really only want a 12m and 9 m quiver . Ever year the companies tell us that the bottom end is improved ......blah blah blah and the shops will tell you that there brands are the best .
Can anyone please advise on the quality and low end , general free ride fun factor of either the Lithium or the Catalyst.
Sorry for the rant but the Naish Pivot did feel really good .......i just need to know if the others do too as i am without a kite at the moment and want to maximise the dollars.
Cheers
It sounds like you and me think the same and are in the same boat. I initially only used North Evos and Fuses and as you have said felt the asking price to be high but I waswilling to pay for best quality. The North products perform well but I (and others I know ) have had issues with bladders, LE seams bar failings...etc. After paying top dollar and still being presented with fundamental issues I looked at alternatives.
I bought a Nitro from Switch. The build quality is equal to or better than any other kite I have seen (mostly North). The price and policies of Switch products is unmatched to my knowledge.
Like you I do freeriding/boosting and I prefer the performance of my 10m Nitro over my previous 9m Fuse (though the Fuse was good). I love the kite and subsequently bought a 12m Nitro4 and am waiting on delivery of a 8m Nitro4 to complete a quiver. For a new 12m Nitro4 with bag ,pump and control bar I paid less than $1200. Even if I kept it for 1 only season and sold it for $600 I would only lose $600. If I was to buy a new North, Naish or similarly priced kite with control bar it would cost approx $2500 and after one seasons use could sell it for maybe $1200. Thats a $1300 loss. Some knockers may say ' but your never going to resell a Switch'. Even if I just kept the kite and bar the $1200 cost is $100 less than the $1300 loss for the alternative. The downside is that local businesses are cut out of the equation.
I certainly have no intention to brand bash and invariably people will stand strong on their preferences, this is merely an account of my experience.
P.S I have a 7m Evo and a 14m Fuse for sale if your interested
Select to expand quoteRobertNaish said..daggy said..
Without getting bogged down in details, but most kites are around $1800 - $2000. Not sure how you are paying $2500 for kites ESPECIALLY if your shop is "looking after you "
I demoed 10 kites last season, my surprising favorite was Ocean Rodeo (!) and they cost me $1650 and $1850
ps Ozones are built extremely well!
Hi Daggy
The retail price of either a North or Naish Kite over here ( anywhere up the East Coast ) in a 12 meter size is $2499.00 while an Ozone is $2100.00 and the Airush is $2000.00
The problem i have with the Naish is that the hype surrounding it seems to mean that the shops can charge the full retail or offer $100.00 off or maybe 10% if you can get it .
Seems a bit wrong as the kite has already been out for nearly 6 months .
I would happily pay a fair price and understand that the shops need to make their money. I also guess that the aussie dollar is affecting margin etc,.
I need to Demo Airush and Ozone and have heard good things about Turning and Boosting with Lithium but only hear that Ozone has excellent build quality. Can anyone comment on its low end and turning etc.
I know , i know demo demo but sometimes horses mouth help too.
Thanks for the replies.....
Ozone kites are ok - it's lighter than others I've fondled on the beach hence flies/drifts when others don't but not as tough I'd say. Dump valve thread wears - but they give you a spare. Apparently there is new material in the 2015's.. time will tell. Ozone bar is pretty average, just into second season on latest set and the grip is coming off, lines looking worn, especially power lines and the de-power cord and then there is the stupid little magnet thing..
Select to expand quoteAlysum said..kookanaut said..
IMHO Switch has superior build quality than most brands. I have heard lots of complaints about Ozones quality and warranty recently, but there kites sure do fly nice. Other brands like Naish are well built, infact overbuilt and fly accordingly like pigs. North warranty not very good. Cabrinha warranty ok build quality ok.
Plus Switch Warranty = lifetime. Cabrinha = 1 year !
and Greta Menardo is 'THE SEXIEST' kite babe…. hands down!!
Try gastra
I was smiling with the price
Especially when I was getting more air than my slingshot
Select to expand quotemrski said..
Try gastra
I was smiling with the price
Especially when I was getting more air than my slingshot
Purchased a $300 8 meter gastra jekyll complete 2010 for high wind as I would not use it that much.
Got to use it yesterday.
My impressions were, I will never pay more than $600 for a complete setup.
There are great cheap kites out there.
Im not a bad kiter but I drop my kites in the surf heaps,often having to release
I figure ,if your not dropping your kites your not having a proper dig
I fact in I have ripped 4 kites in half with only the leading edge holding them together in 4 years
3 of them in the surf and 1 in flat water
I watched Andy Yates last summer slam his kite in the water a few times in less than an hour
But he was trying some triple backroll flilpy thing
Watching some of the really good riders with Aaron Hadlow the other day in very light wind
Their kites were in the water heaps,sometimes they slammed into the water but mostly just landed fairly softly
My next kite will be a Switch or a Griffin kite I think,can get them for a good price $700 - 850[ kite only] depending on the size ,usual delivery time 4-6 days and use my old
bar,both are high quility build in my opinion and perform well
Going on MY average I will drop it my kite in the surf and rip it in half in the next 12 months,hopefully this stat will improve 
If I bought a Naish Pivot which Im well impressed with and dropped in the surf on a big day in front of a big whitewash and had to release it and watch it get blown thought the surf
across the beach and into the trees,I think I would be devoed ,worst still if I dropped it in front of a big whitewash and could not release in time and had it ripped in half
If I dropped one of the cheaper kites in the surf,well not so bad
Hi Robert,
Very Interesting topic. Brands come with history and experience, research and development and huge network for distribution where in theory helps lowering cost for a good and supported product - anyway, this is how it works in other industries.
In my opinion, one brand can provide the best kiting experience (i.e. quality, performance, service, etc.) to someone, when for others it can be their worst. It really comes down to trying out a few and how much you are willing to spend for that experience.
Like many, I've been riding the big brands and all of them had pros/cons. For example, I remember having issues with a "big brand" about stitching coming undone just after unwrapping it. Went to the local shop where I bought it for a replacement and after long discussions "the local shop" agreed to have it repaired instead of replacing it. Agree the repairs was better than the original stitching, but it sort of took the satisfaction away of having a new kite... no biggy, after couple of days of salty therapy, I got over it ;-) I enjoyed those kites very much.
Nevertheless, this whole experience made me re-think the whole "big brand" thing. I have now been riding kites from a smaller brand for awhile and have several kites all in perfect conditions. No issues I can think of. They are extremely solid and fly very well and also look great (not that looks really matter to me ;-)
As DM suggested, it all comes down to trying out a few and finding your match ;-)
Cheers!
WR
I have worked with 4 kite factories in china and have been designing kites for 8+ years, inflatable kites cost about $400 USD to make at a factory, the larger brands should be paying less for bulk. The designers experience is important to how a kite flys but the marketing is more important to get people to spend the cash on there brand.
What you are paying for is:
Shipping, import duty and GST on kites can be +$300 per kite
Designer needs to make $ to feed there family and live: +40 to $150 per kite
A brand may Buy Team riders ( up to $100,000 per year per rider) and/or Forum Spammers
A brand may have a marketing division advertising and magazine adds ( $500,000 per year )
A brand may have Investors who want 30% return on investment
Shops need to make $400 to $ 1000 on top of all the above costs per kite to have a life and a family + cover rent, wages, insurance, stock, old stock they have to discount at less than cost and deserve local support.
Convert USD into AUD ( add 20% to the USD cost )
Wages and Materials are going up about 8% per year for kites
Just because a Kite costs $2600 or $1200 does not 100% guarantee the quality, design experience, materials or performance is better. Not 100% but still a high %. There are plenty of crappy cheap kites and some good ones, and most of the expensive kites are fantastic but a few may not be as good as a cheaper kite.
I say the above because in the last 2 months I have seen at my local beach 3 people with brand new $2500 kites deflate on first inflation because of a hole in the bladder, kites where not replaced but repaired, I know some one who purchased a $2600 kite and bar for a kite camp trip in North Queensland for a weeks holiday on arrival the kite had a massive hole in the bladder and would not inflate, no replacement, only repair. I know 4 people who purchased an online brand and 3 returned the kites one sold his on ebay.
I understand and respect why a kite costs $2500 to $3000 if you take into all the costs above, the cost is valid. To be a big brand you need to pay the $$$ for riders marketing promotion etc etc, but it would be hard for many people to get a 2 or 3 kite quiver.
I hear sellers say "resale value is crap on a cheaper kite" do the maths, a 2500 kite after 2 years is worth $500-800 or $100 if ripped or damaged, you loose $1800,
a $1200 kite is worth $300 to $600, you lose 600.
Just my 2 cents worth, bring on the fake rage.....
2 grand plus for a new kite makes me ill, f...k me have a decent look at what your buying. someones makin it though.
Solution solved. .. one word. "Cabrinha". all the other kites are made from the off cuts of scrap that falls on the floor at Cabrinha HQ. why settle on second best.
Select to expand quotestormgod said..
Solution solved. .. one word. "Cabrinha". all the other kites are made from the off cuts of scrap that falls on the floor at Cabrinha HQ. why settle on second best.
and yet all the other brands manage to make their kites look better than cabrina
two of the guys i ride with have 2014 cab bars that look like dogs have chewed it - they are not happy
Select to expand quoteiti said..
Why buy the current new model , how much better is it that the last year's model. Can can usually buy last year's model new for a steal shop around.
Try Daniel or reg at kite addiction in Perth and ask for a price _ u can't go wrong
Yep. I agree with this. Last years kites are 99.9% as good as this years. find out what you like and look for a deal of end of year run out sale or something.
PS If you want to boost old school fly the ozone edge!.. Its not so flash down the line though. Think about a split quiver. EG I run 13 edge, 10 edge, 8 cat, 6 reo.
In the lighter winds the waves are smaller and boosting is more fun than wave riding piddlers. As the wind builds the waves get bigger and lower aspect kites start to jump ok. So I slowly step down in jumping ability and step up in wave riding ability as with my kite as it gets windier.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
In the lighter winds the waves are smaller and boosting is more fun than wave riding piddlers. As the wind builds the waves get bigger and lower aspect kites start to jump ok. So I slowly step down in jumping ability and step up in wave riding ability as with my kite as it gets windier.
Maybe true for your area, but current wind on beach normally does not dictate swell size. If light winds, small waves were true, paddle surfers would never catch a decent wave. I agree with building your quiver to suit your style, and it will be different for everyone. The vast majority of kiters just want good value, and don't give a rats about brands. I think the main thing is to find your brand, model, and size that fits your style. I remember a shaper talking about surfboards describing it as your 'magic slipper'. Like music, it may not be someone else's taste. When you do find that kite, you will know. It's the one you have no hesitation, your sure it's the right size to put up, and want to grab. You should also have total confidence in the brand and equipment, against failure and faults. One failure wave riding, can cost you your whole kit! Build your quiver around that kite. For that main kite, I have no hesitation in spending $ on it.
Interesting that there are a lot of comments in this thread from peeps who have only been kiting for a short time, assumed based on seabreeze member info, not sure on what basis these people are basing their opinions on, surely they have not tried all the brands they are commenting on and have not really been kiting long enough to comment on longevity....
I think pearls comments are pretty close to how I see it as well. Before too long search for the kite that "clicks" with you and normally that involves a certain size as well and cost... a factor, becomes only that, a factor to consider among all others. Then build your quiver around that.
Whether that's a so called leading brand or not.
So at this stage, to simply answer the question of the post...
YES 
Select to expand quotepearl said..Plummet said..
In the lighter winds the waves are smaller and boosting is more fun than wave riding piddlers. As the wind builds the waves get bigger and lower aspect kites start to jump ok. So I slowly step down in jumping ability and step up in wave riding ability as with my kite as it gets windier.
Maybe true for your area, but current wind on beach normally does not dictate swell size. If light winds, small waves were true, paddle surfers would never catch a decent wave.
Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread....
Anyway. I will agree with you that convection based seabreezes do not dictate swell size. But front based weather patterns do. In short no wind = no waves.
So you need wind to make waves. Typically the frontal weather pattern that makes wind and creates the waves will hit land in the direction its going. You will get several days or week of wind, rain etc during that time the swell size increases. Then the front moves on but the swell takes a day or so to slowly reduce in size. Surfers get to surf on the back side of the front after the wind had departed.
There also can be weather events that occur out at sea that do not make it to land that can also brings the swell.... Left over reminants from the wind we did not experience.
But as a general rule of thumb. Light winds typically = small swell, high wind particularly sustained high wind over a period of days = big swell.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
But as a general rule of thumb. Light winds typically = small swell, high wind particularly sustained high wind over a period of days = big swell.
I understand what you are trying to say but for anyone who hasn't grown up on the ocean and/or understands swell/storm behaviour, this is terribly misleading.
Select to expand quoteDJMWA said..Plummet said..
But as a general rule of thumb. Light winds typically = small swell, high wind particularly sustained high wind over a period of days = big swell.
I understand what you are trying to say but for anyone who hasn't grown up on the ocean and/or understands swell/storm behaviour, this is terribly misleading.
Why?
^ Plummet what you're saying isn't true for all coastlines. Take Indonesia for example, the swell they receive is generated far south, with no frontal activity anywhere near Indo coastlines.
Select to expand quotebene313 said..
^ Plummet what you're saying isn't true for all coastlines. Take Indonesia for example, the swell they receive is generated far south, with no frontal activity anywhere near Indo coastlines.
Yep I agree with that. Particularly for small islands in large oceans.
Thats why i said this.
"There also can be weather events that occur out at sea that do not make it to land that can also brings the swell.... Left over reminants from the wind we did not experience"
I'd expect that to the exception rather than the rule. Particularly for a country that has a large land mass that has far greater influence on the local weather patterns than an small island.
Perhaps I cam completely wrong.
Dear Plummet,
For the sake of the children please don't comment on anything involving waves.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Select to expand quoteSaveTheChildren said..
Dear Plummet,
For the sake of the children please don't comment on anything involving waves.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Interesting in that Plummet kites in some of the best waves you could imagine for kiting in that isolated part of the world.
I see my vouching for the leading brands has been red thumbed...insecure are we?
Well you guys keep dancing around like seagulls admiring each others Sh1t, slapping each other on the back about ALL the money you saved!
And keep posting your amazing informative analyses of the 'greatest ever free ride kites' performance.
