Select to expand quotePlummet said..
.. say 85% of these people could potentially still be alive....
Or crippled my friend, or crippled.
Marc probably died coz he snapped his neck. On first impact. Just like many and I know at least 3 kiters. Fortunate for them, they survived.
How would he live if 100% paraplegic? How would any?!
Helmet definitely helps in some situations, but snapping your neck.
I will wear a helmet, hoping not to snap my vertebrae again.
I think they need to make helmets more geared for kiting, lighter and would not hurt to add some design flare to it as I too want to look cool....maybe a peak like the whitewater helmets that you can wear backwards when the chicks are at the beach......!!!!
Select to expand quotelostinlondon said..
...
But, as you stated, it's the times when you launch and land that are the greatest risk. And then there are those times when you come in to shore because it's come up too windy and you need to extricate yourself from it.
The worst thing you can do is come in to shore when it's got too windy. The best thing is to ride as far out to sea as you can and get away from hard stuff that will hurt you. Many times I have ridden out squalls 500+m out to sea while watching guys on the beach go through various kinds of trauma trying to get kites down onto the beach in 40 knot winds. In every case the squall has passed in 15-20 minutes and I have been able to come in and land at leisure. Even if it didn't I could land the kite on the water, release to the leash then drift in with a drowned kite. Rule 1 of kiting is to ride away from stuff that can hurt you.
In principle a helmet could protect you from a glancing blow to the head from an incident during launching or landing. That's what all the certified helmets are tested for. A helmet will provide minimal protection from a full power head plant into a rock wall. They're just not designed to protect you from that. (go and read the EN certification documents for water sports, snow sports and climbing helmets).
Certainly wear a helmet if you want, but far more effective is avoidance. Two line lengths is the minimum distance from any hazards downwind, both hazards to you (hard stuff) and hazards from you (bystanders). It's not a hard rule to observe. It does take a little self discipline to not try to squeeze past things sometimes.
The other thing is to practice self launching and landing until you are at least competent.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..lostinlondon said..
...
But, as you stated, it's the times when you launch and land that are the greatest risk. And then there are those times when you come in to shore because it's come up too windy and you need to extricate yourself from it.
The worst thing you can do is come in to shore when it's got too windy. The best thing is to ride as far out to sea as you can and get away from hard stuff that will hurt you. Many times I have ridden out squalls 500+m out to sea while watching guys on the beach go through various kinds of trauma trying to get kites down onto the beach in 40 knot winds. In every case the squall has passed in 15-20 minutes and I have been able to come in and land at leisure. Even if it didn't I could land the kite on the water, release to the leash then drift in with a drowned kite. Rule 1 of kiting is to ride away from stuff that can hurt you.
In principle a helmet could protect you from a glancing blow to the head from an incident during launching or landing. That's what all the certified helmets are tested for. A helmet will provide minimal protection from a full power head plant into a rock wall. They're just not designed to protect you from that. (go and read the EN certification documents for water sports, snow sports and climbing helmets).
Certainly wear a helmet if you want, but far more effective is avoidance. Two line lengths is the minimum distance from any hazards downwind, both hazards to you (hard stuff) and hazards from you (bystanders). It's not a hard rule to observe. It does take a little self discipline to not try to squeeze past things sometimes.
The other thing is to practice self launching and landing until you are at least competent.
Agree with this.
I think these are common mistakes. I've done the same thing myself and been fortunate enough to tell the tale. Out kiting on a 12m bow kite, 45 squall, kite touching the water at the edge of the window and there was still enough power to drag me to shore on my board standing and square to the kite trying to slow myself. Fortunately when I hit shore someone got to the kite.
The second mistake is not holding their QR in preparation for the worst. Having one hand on the QR means reacting faster than trying to find it when you need to.
The final mistake I've seen is delays in pulling on the QR under the mistaken believe they can recover a kite. Even if you recover it, chances are it will go through the powerzone. I'm not sure why people attach more value to their kite than their own lives, but I've seen that happen more times than I can count instead of people just pulling their QR.
Select to expand quoteSaffer said..Gorgo said..Agree with this.lostinlondon said..
...
But, as you stated, it's the times when you launch and land that are the greatest risk. And then there are those times when you come in to shore because it's come up too windy and you need to extricate yourself from it.
The worst thing you can do is come in to shore when it's got too windy. The best thing is to ride as far out to sea as you can and get away from hard stuff that will hurt you. Many times I have ridden out squalls 500+m out to sea while watching guys on the beach go through various kinds of trauma trying to get kites down onto the beach in 40 knot winds. In every case the squall has passed in 15-20 minutes and I have been able to come in and land at leisure. Even if it didn't I could land the kite on the water, release to the leash then drift in with a drowned kite. Rule 1 of kiting is to ride away from stuff that can hurt you.
In principle a helmet could protect you from a glancing blow to the head from an incident during launching or landing. That's what all the certified helmets are tested for. A helmet will provide minimal protection from a full power head plant into a rock wall. They're just not designed to protect you from that. (go and read the EN certification documents for water sports, snow sports and climbing helmets).
Certainly wear a helmet if you want, but far more effective is avoidance. Two line lengths is the minimum distance from any hazards downwind, both hazards to you (hard stuff) and hazards from you (bystanders). It's not a hard rule to observe. It does take a little self discipline to not try to squeeze past things sometimes.
The other thing is to practice self launching and landing until you are at least competent.
I think these are common mistakes. I've done the same thing myself and been fortunate enough to tell the tale. Out kiting on a 12m bow kite, 45 squall, kite touching the water at the edge of the window and there was still enough power to drag me to shore on my board standing and square to the kite trying to slow myself. Fortunately when I hit shore someone got to the kite.
The second mistake is not holding their QR in preparation for the worst. Having one hand on the QR means reacting faster than trying to find it when you need to.
The final mistake I've seen is delays in pulling on the QR under the mistaken believe they can recover a kite. Even if you recover it, chances are it will go through the powerzone. I'm not sure why people attach more value to their kite than their own lives, but I've seen that happen more times than I can count instead of people just pulling their QR.
Agree with both.
Helmet will never stop a brick wall, but it will protect your head if your board gets picked up by a wave and driven towards you, as happened to me several times on Sunday.
Sage advice on staying out the back when it squalls - if you've got balls made of depleted uranium.
Better still, keep your eyes peeled for those big darkies and gusts. If you can't read the weather don't bother goin' and just sit on the beach helping others - your dues will come later.
Getting helmet for waves as in Perth that invariably means storms, fronts or beach dumps.
Select to expand quotealverstone said..
....
Sage advice on staying out the back when it squalls - if you've got balls made of depleted uranium.
....
My balls may be depleted, but there's no uranium involved. 
It's simple self preservation. You get a moment's notice when the wind is picking up. My instant reaction is to f.uk off out of there out to sea.
Hey i have an idea. Wear a helmet if you want to wear a helmet and dont wear one if you choose not to. Seriously you guys sound like old women, and the same stupid ideas and arguments just get repeated in this forum each year. Why stop at helmets, surely life jackets are more pratical in this sport; see where this bull**** goes?? Anyway my yearly post and rant is over.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Actually most deaths follow a common trend. Riding over powered or in gusty conditions becomes overpowered....
After watching a heap of kitemare youtube videos when first getting into kiting, that was my conclusion too. Almost all serious accidents happen in gusty conditions. So when it's gusty, I go play with one of my other toys, not worth the risk.
Select to expand quoteFreddofrog said..Plummet said..
Actually most deaths follow a common trend. Riding over powered or in gusty conditions becomes overpowered....
After watching a heap of kitemare youtube videos when first getting into kiting, that was my conclusion too. Almost all serious accidents happen in gusty conditions. So when it's gusty, I go play with one of my other toys, not worth the risk.
As many people have said in the past, riding gusty isn't bad, but you rig your kite for the gusts and choose your board for the lulls, not the other way around. I think this is the most common mistake I've seen.
Helmet keeps my sunnies on.
Helmet stops my bald cranium from burning.
Helmet says: I am here to kite, not to look cool. Just to re-inforce this notion, I also wear an impact vest.
Select to expand quoteFreddofrog said..towradgi said..
Yes i did just a minor issue to me,still no helmet .What hurt was the $758.40 ambulance ride for 6 kilometres to Wollongong hospital .A cab is only $20.
That's what insurance is for, and a cab doesn't have $1000's worth of life saving gear, or highly trained professions operating it, or access to support systems, or pretty lights and annoying sirens to get you to hospital quicker etc etc etc etc etc etckitebt said..
.... i don't wear a helmet on a flat bike path .....
Problem with this is you set a bad example for kids. We parents then have to explain why the guy (it's always a guy) is an idiot for both disobeying the law and not being safe..........and no you can't take your helmet off too....if he jumped of a bridge would you do that too. I don't actually say that but you get my point.
Actually I don't get your point. If as a parent and I am one myself and always wear a helmet when I am with my kids to set a good example I can't explain to them the difference between adults making decisions for themselves and kids not being able to make those decisions then perhaps you need to look at your parenting style. Harshly judging other people in front of your kids and calling them idiots is going to do a lot more damager long term to your kids development. Bottom line is adults are able to assess risk and make informed decisions based on that risk. Kids can not. Maybe explaining that to your kids will give them a much greater understanding about themselves then judging other adults.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..lostinlondon said..
...
But, as you stated, it's the times when you launch and land that are the greatest risk. And then there are those times when you come in to shore because it's come up too windy and you need to extricate yourself from it.
The worst thing you can do is come in to shore when it's got too windy. The best thing is to ride as far out to sea as you can and get away from hard stuff that will hurt you. Many times I have ridden out squalls 500+m out to sea while watching guys on the beach go through various kinds of trauma trying to get kites down onto the beach in 40 knot winds. In every case the squall has passed in 15-20 minutes and I have been able to come in and land at leisure. Even if it didn't I could land the kite on the water, release to the leash then drift in with a drowned kite. Rule 1 of kiting is to ride away from stuff that can hurt you.
In principle a helmet could protect you from a glancing blow to the head from an incident during launching or landing. That's what all the certified helmets are tested for. A helmet will provide minimal protection from a full power head plant into a rock wall. They're just not designed to protect you from that. (go and read the EN certification documents for water sports, snow sports and climbing helmets).
Certainly wear a helmet if you want, but far more effective is avoidance. Two line lengths is the minimum distance from any hazards downwind, both hazards to you (hard stuff) and hazards from you (bystanders). It's not a hard rule to observe. It does take a little self discipline to not try to squeeze past things sometimes.
The other thing is to practice self launching and landing until you are at least competent.
I agree Gorgo. I also think for some reason we often have an attachment to our kites and are afraid to let them go when it gets little hairy. A kite costs around $2K I cost a hell a lot of more than that to my family and friends. I have no hesitation to get that kite detached from me if something starts to go wrong. In fact it is my first instinct so i am prepared to do so while in parallel assessing the risk. Often in split second thinking situations.
I remember when I was learning I got the kite wrapped around a navigation pole by accident in the water. The kite was pulling me towards the pole at a rapid rate of knots. I did hesitate to release the kite completely. I then got scolded for doing from more experienced kiters on the beach. Why do we feel we must hang onto our kite in all situations rather than let it go to save ourselves.
I know there will always be incidents where you can't or it just happens to quickly but I do think there is a general attitude that letting your kite go should be a last resort rather then your first instinct when things go wrong. Apologies for the diversion this has nothing to do with helmets.
Lets face it. The helmet wearers will continue to wear helmets. The none helmet wearers will not. Every now and then an accident will happen. The helmet wearing guy will stand a better chance of living. Though helmet wearing is not the answer to stopping injuries or death.
The answer to that I believe is better knowledge or weather, ensuring we do ride overpowered and having a various well practiced "oh ****" plans if something goes wrong.
I love my gath...I love the way it feels like I'm climing into my little cocoon...away from all those harsh elements...the wind noise is gone the ear canals are protected I can pull the visor down to block the sun and spray...its warm in winter too...who gives a rats arse if....at the sime time its protecting my noggin
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
I don't think it has anything to do with coolness. The vast majority of kiteboarders are older males. Most of us are beyond caring about cool.
Every other sport that uses helmets has purpose built helmets for that sport, with standards to ensure they are fit for purpose.
The vast majority of helmets used in kiteboarding are adapted from other sports and are not really fit for purpose. They're all too big, too heavy, have too much drag, and too much wind noise. They greatly contribute to the possibility of neck injuries and they're ridiculously uncomfortable.
Think back over the years and think of how many times you've crashed and whiplashed your head vs the number of impacts to your head you've had.
I have owned most of the popular brands and styles (Gath, various Protec) and they are not good for kiting.
The other issue is availability, which I guess really reflects on commitment from the industry. You can go to a board store and try out any number of snowboard helmets. If you're lucky they might have a few sizes of Gath helmets or the odd skateboarding or snowboarding helmet.
Comparing kiteboarding to cycling is not even remotely valid. According to Sandringham Hospital 85% of cycling injuries come from cyclists riding into stationary obstacles such as parked cars, posts and traffic signs. The ,majority of those injuries are to arms but the chances of your head impacting the obstacle are huge, especially if you riding head forward on a road bike. Last time I looked all the posts and signs in the sea and on the beach were easily avoided by just moving somewhere else.Select to expand quoteFreddofrog said..oceanfire said..
How many types of helmets are suitable for kiting?
This could be a useful place to post pics, pros and cons for all available types that you all use.
Protect Ace Wake is what I use. More protection than Gath helmets which are only really designed for deflecting surfboards. Also more comfortable, and ear pieces are removable. Around $80 online if you look hard enough.
I am bald so with those holes in the helmet...... gonna have 1 spotty head tan ...lol
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Lets face it. The helmet wearers will continue to wear helmets. The none helmet wearers will not. Every now and then an accident will happen. The helmet wearing guy will stand a better chance of living. Though helmet wearing is not the answer to stopping injuries or death.
The answer to that I believe is better knowledge or weather, ensuring we do ride overpowered and having a various well practiced "oh ****" plans if something goes wrong.
true quote .. IF IN DOUBT DON'T GO OUT.... and I started with a gath helmet kited for 10mins with it and chucked it away .....horrible, I have landed on my head, boards knocked my brains out, been concussed 2 times from kite looping and landing on my head, sprained my neck... and hell I am still here, was just not my time to go,,, ooh yes and also gave my self a blue eye by pushing the bar into my eye socket and, hell I love kiting LIVE TO FLY and in those days no mega de-power systems or bow kites just a C KITE
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Lets face it. The helmet wearers will continue to wear helmets. The none helmet wearers will not. Every now and then an accident will happen. The helmet wearing guy will stand a better chance of living. Though helmet wearing is not the answer to stopping injuries or death.
The answer to that I believe is better knowledge or weather, ensuring we do ride overpowered and having a various well practiced "oh ****" plans if something goes wrong.
Better knowledge indeed... The hardest thing is making that judgement call on your own abilities. I have seen a lot of news articles talking about 'experienced kite surfers'. 2 years of kiting doesn't make you experienced. After 10 years of kiting, from 2-line days, and 20 years of wind based watersports, I think I know my limitations. But I wouldn't bet my life on that, or cheat my two young girls out of a dad on a borderline call- Mother Nature still surprises the hell out of me with some of the stuff she throws out there, and has killed my friends doing the thing they love, be that surfing or kiting.
You're right plummet, I'm not a helmet wearer, that probably won't change. But between go big or go home, I generally choose go home.
I am guilty of not putting any sort of priority on stocking or recommending helmets since starting up the shop.
This is now about to change. We are investigating all the options to decide what might be best to present & recommend.
I would appreciate as much feedback from kiters as possible.
If you dont want to post your experience with brands or styles please PM me
Or email - info@kitesurfsup.com.au.
All feedback muchly appreciated.
Select to expand quotekitebt said..
Actually I don't get your point. If as a parent and I am one myself and always wear a helmet when I am with my kids to set a good example I can't explain to them the difference between adults making decisions for themselves and kids not being able to make those decisions then perhaps you need to look at your parenting style. Harshly judging other people in front of your kids and calling them idiots is going to do a lot more damager long term to your kids development. Bottom line is adults are able to assess risk and make informed decisions based on that risk. Kids can not. Maybe explaining that to your kids will give them a much greater understanding about themselves then judging other adults.
Sounds hypocritical to me, saying one thing then doing another when the kids aren't around. Another good example for kids. Is that what you want, for your kids to behave "correctly" in front of you then do otherwise when you're not around.
Bottom line is the law is very clear. By not wearing a helmet you are teaching your kids that they can pick and choose which laws apply to them and which don't, as long as they can somehow justify it like you are doing with your adult reasoning risk assessment argument. You are also now teaching them that not to respect those in authority over us who have made those laws in the first place.
I teach my kids some things are negotiable, some are not, breaking the law is not, and if I catch you, I will judge you harshly too.
Select to expand quoteFreddofrog said..kitebt said..
Actually I don't get your point. If as a parent and I am one myself and always wear a helmet when I am with my kids to set a good example I can't explain to them the difference between adults making decisions for themselves and kids not being able to make those decisions then perhaps you need to look at your parenting style. Harshly judging other people in front of your kids and calling them idiots is going to do a lot more damager long term to your kids development. Bottom line is adults are able to assess risk and make informed decisions based on that risk. Kids can not. Maybe explaining that to your kids will give them a much greater understanding about themselves then judging other adults.
Sounds hypocritical to me, saying one thing then doing another when the kids aren't around. Another good example for kids. Is that what you want, for your kids to behave "correctly" in front of you then do otherwise when you're not around.
Bottom line is the law is very clear. By not wearing a helmet you are teaching your kids that they can pick and choose which laws apply to them and which don't, as long as they can somehow justify it like you are doing with your adult reasoning risk assessment argument. You are also now teaching them that not to respect those in authority over us who have made those laws in the first place.
I teach my kids some things are negotiable, some are not, breaking the law is not, and if I catch you, I will judge you harshly too.
Its not law where I live. So unfortunately your judgement of me in this situation is completely incorrect mate. (This tends to be a trend of people who harshly judge others so I am little surprised.) However, when I do visit Australia I absolutely agree one should follow the law regardless of weather one thinks it is a "Nanny State or not."
We could keep going on this thread but it detracts from what it is really about which is both sides of the argument about wearing helmets while kite surfing. So I tell you what. You keep your judgements and I will keep making risk assessments and I am sure at the end of the day our lives and our kids lives will continue to be just awesome. 
Select to expand quotejackforbes said..
Better knowledge indeed... The hardest thing is making that judgement call on your own abilities. I have seen a lot of news articles talking about 'experienced kite surfers'. 2 years of kiting doesn't make you experienced. After 10 years of kiting, from 2-line days, and 20 years of wind based watersports, I think I know my limitations. But I wouldn't bet my life on that, or cheat my two young girls out of a dad on a borderline call- Mother Nature still surprises the hell out of me with some of the stuff she throws out there, and has killed my friends doing the thing they love, be that surfing or kiting.
But between go big or go home, I generally choose go home.
Yeah. Know you limitations. But the problem is the more experienced I get (I started in 05 so 8 years) the higher my limitations. I'm talking wind speeds and conditions. I can, do and will kite again in 30-40 + knots conditions. I Absolutely love it..... But I 2 have kids at home that need a dad. One of the hardest things for me to do is say no! when the conditions are extreme. I've done it 3-4 times this year. Its been absolutely nuking and i've been so close to going out solo and i've pulled pin... man its difficult. The urge to go out and concur the conditions is immense.
I teach and always advocate the importance of wearing a helmet at least for the first season while learning,a year or so ago I saw a guy that was taught by another school and he rocked up without a helmet for his first solo session ,I made a point of telling him to get a helmet while learning he said his instructor had also advised him to but he didn't really want to cos it was uncool, after a bit of a chat letting him know that when I lern't I near knocked myself unconscious twice with a helmet on he decided it was a good idea I lent him one of mine for the day and after that he got one ,I was really glad as I heard the week after he f**ked up his launch was hoisted 30 meters and head butted a post on the side of his helmet ,he brought the helmet to show me and there was a huge graze and a golf ball size dent in the side of it.
Personally though I don't wear a helmet, not because is cool or uncool I just hate the feel of it while I'm riding ,I would hate to see it legislated but will always push my students to wear one.
Select to expand quotejetstream said..
Just wearing a helmet is a false assurance. How many died on the road while doing something wrong (texting). False assurance with buckled up.
You need to ask yourself do you teach SRR (SAFETY RELEASE REFLEX)?
If you answered NO, than preaching a helmet is false assurance.
The REFLEX of breaking is something you learn. Comes at a beginning of your driving. I'll repeat: comes at a beginning.
Citing:
"Your memory should be exercised by feel. Imagine if you played xbox and had to look at each button you pushed."
So, I am asking again, do you train students SRR?
Btw, the coolest boarders have the coolest sponsors. I snowboard, have 6yrs old board, and not cool by any means. But lovin it (read my post from above).
Select to expand quoteRMS said..
Helmet keeps my sunnies on.
Helmet stops my bald cranium from burning.
Helmet says: I am here to kite, not to look cool. Just to re-inforce this notion, I also wear an impact vest.
Me too, on all three counts.
I sometimes kite without my helmet but prefer to use it. I have conked it with my board a couple of times during stacks.
I wear it for comfort and in the event of an unforeseen accident - impact by another vessel (or kiter), getting lofted & dumped etc. Its not too difficult to reach speeds up to 40 km/h which is fast enough for a serious impact.
I use a Protec B2 Wake water helmet (like in the images posted).
I skied for 20+ years without a helmet, but I wear one skiing now too.
Hi all,
I usually wear a hat in summer but I've never worn a helmet while kiting for a number of reasons, main one being that they're generally uncomfortable, don't fit right and offer no protection from the elements (sun etc), however I've just purchased a "Predator LEE Helmet" which is a baseball cap style helmet designed for Kayaking (whitewater) and other water sports. I intend to use it when I think there's a need i.e. strong/stormy conditions etc. Its not going to be my security blanky, just a step up when I think or feel the need for extra precaution, plus it has the bonus of being light, comfortable and a peak at the front to protect my eyes/face from the sun so I'm hoping that I'll just get used to wearing it all the time. As far as helmet laws go I think it would be a shame to have another thing forced upon us, after all we do these activities knowing there's an element of risk and choose to continue with the knowledge that sometimes things don't go to plan. The tragedy that happened the other day could have happened to anyone for a number of different reasons and conditions, its up to the individual to choose whether or not he/she decides to do something to reduce that risk, be it not going out in conditions they don't feel comfortable in or putting on safety equipment, as for me I'm choosing to try the helmet for added protection, I know it's not the answer to all the potentials but to me the melon is the one thing we can't afford to damage. Thats my spin on it.
Cheers
When a spot is crowded i wear a red life jacket and a red helmet with a full face mask and little radio on the side so people think i'm a kook and stay away leave me lots of room to ride. works a treat
Looks like your riding fits your outfit if then.
I am amazed by the "safety gear is for kooks only" attitude. No one skcuf with Murphy's or Newton's law, no matter how advanced.
Blablabla, safety gear is BS, just properly assess the situation. Right, that works if you're a psychic and you already know what is going to happen before it actually does.
Just look at the automotive industry. Why all this seatbelt, airbag, ABS, ESP, etc? Useless crap...just properly assess the situation. Muhahaha. Stupid.
