Nationals, Foiling Events

Someone said something about Nationals in Melbourne in Feb. Is that on? Also there was talk of Match/Teams racing which would be great.

Also apart from Townsville, are any other Aussie events going to start allowing foiling boards in competitions scored separately. I know the NSW State Titles/Kitepower races will allow foiling. It will boost numbers in the kite racing scene.

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wdric said..

jordangirdis said..
I know the NSW State Titles/Kitepower races will allow foiling. It will boost numbers in the kite racing scene.

You really think so!
Is there anyone wishing to race a foil board that doesnt currently race a formula board?
If we have about 8 regulars turn up for formula kite
Then if three of those 8 decide to go with foils it actually reduces the number in the fleet of the same type.

I know if there was only 5 regulars on a formula board I would be thinking twice about making the 2hr trip to Sydney every second Saturday.


KBR got bigger when they bought in the box rule, most people aren't interested in buying gear that is out of date in six months.
Sure you can make you own, but only a smaller number would wish to do this.

Kite Foil boarding should and will remain a development class for some time and that generally means smaller numbers of people doing it who are dedicated to the class.

A development class yes but Foil Racing will definitely gain momentum as it has serious advantages over formula KBR. Speed, ease of use, portability, kite size, wind range....

I still do agree that Formula kite racing is way more accessible but after spending a lot of time on the foils it is hard to fault.

There is one other guy in sydney foiling who isn't race boarding. More will follow if foils are easier to ride and cheap. Don't see many non-foiling moths these days!

I am saying this all having never foil raced

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MOWIT said..

@ jordangirdis just a couple of thoughts:

1. Wind range for Formula boards is 6 to 35 knots, yes?

Just curious when you say wind range for a Kite Foil for racing is better, haven't seen or heard of many people foil racing in over 20 knots?

2. Cost wise, a set of fins for a formula board is approximately $700 landed, what's the cost of a foil landed? $3,000?

as @ wdric has said, the attraction of the Formula Kite class is variety of manufactured product already proven, established national and international competitions, there already appears to be the widest wind range achievable and the cost is reasonable compared to KIte Foil at this point IMO.

Im not trying to make it a formula vs foiling debate - I like both, and I will still be at all the formula events. You can however go out in lighter winds on a foil. Foiling in above 20 knots no problems. Yes I agree it is still expensive, however a foil would cost about the same as a new raceboard with fins

I think it would be worthwhile just growing the sport a little though parallel scoring at events. It took us Aussies a few years to get into formula so we were already years behind. I just don't want to be so far behind again. Plus it's something new, exciting, and a chance to get the same feeling we all got the first time we jumped on a course board all over again.

@ Patto1987

Wicked someone looking at repurposing a Formula Board. Are you saying the 50 cm for foil mast/strut & wing length or something else like the width of the board?

2014 Formula Kite Rules: http://www.internationalkiteboarding.org/index.php/course-racing/rules/class-rules-rules-regulating-the-equipment/formula-kite-class-rules

2014 KiteFoil Rules: www.internationalkiteboarding.org/index.php/course-racing/rules/class-rules-rules-regulating-the-equipment/foil-class-rules

Are you mod'ing the board to fit the open class KiteFoil class minimum board width, or repairing the board and then replacing the Formula Kite Board fins to a 50cm with a foil combination to fit under the max. fin length?

Love to hear your thoughts

@ Patto1987

Okay, I think from what you're saying is, leave the Board in the "Box Rule" for Formula Kite board only focus on the thruster fin structure and what can be done up to 50 cm max. below the bottom of the board

Last time I tried to float an idea like this I got the "Titanic" response from Kite forum folk, including one would assume the French foil guys When you consider the French guys have been at this for over 4 years, well

My thoughts FWIW were, Think: "self adjusting thruster version of an AC72":

1. If you try to only use a 45 cm mast/strut the chop will cause you to board slap on the top of the chop, whilst your foil is in the trough, last thing you want is the foiling fins to vent, then spin out. Ok, if the chop is less than say 40 cm wave face height, move to next point:

2. If you went with 2 "L shaped" foils on the front of a tri-fin set up with both toe inwards and a T style rear foil/fin in the rear, once heading up wind the leeward fin would vent once the board is healed to windward, this might make it very unstable, don't know

3. Ran this past a naval architect and got a " What The ", if you used:
(a) Front foil/fins, Vertical mast Symmetrical fin profile, then joined via a large L bracket to a horizontal Asymmetrical fin with a self adjusting rear tab.
(b) Rear foil/fin, again a symetrical Mast/strut/vertical fin attached to a moth type base with self adjusting tabs on either side.

4. Now I hit the wall and was left with a massive headache do you use only G10 or G11 glass? G10 or 11 combined with Aluminium NACA section, G10 + repurposed moth foil, or G10 core with carbon outer as a composite or 3 fully custom NACA Alloy section foils/fins

For curiosity, someone out there on SB may have a handle on a solution

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wdric said..

jordangirdis said..
I know the NSW State Titles/Kitepower races will allow foiling. It will boost numbers in the kite racing scene.

You really think so!
Is there anyone wishing to race a foil board that doesnt currently race a formula board?
If we have about 8 regulars turn up for formula kite
Then if three of those 8 decide to go with foils it actually reduces the number in the fleet of the same type.

I know if there was only 5 regulars on a formula board I would be thinking twice about making the 2hr trip to Sydney every second Saturday.


KBR got bigger when they bought in the box rule, most people arent interested in buying gear that is out of date in six months.
Sure you can make you own, but only a smaller number would wish to do this.

Kite Foil boarding should and will remain a development class for some time and that generally means smaller numbers of people doing it who are dedicated to the class.

@ wdric can I ask a simple question that you may know the answer too?

It appears that Melbourne have yacht clubs wishing to host and accept Formula Kite Racing into them as does Perth, Brisbane & Townsville. Other than the guys on Lake Macquarie at the Amateur Windsurfing Club, is there any other AYF / NSWYA clubs supporting Formula Kite Racing?

No matter what you try, Go for it and remember "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained"

if you get a chance to record the "tests" maybe everyone would love to Critique?

So the hull appendages rules out putting some wings on the board and getting rid of the foil all together..

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MOWIT said..

@ wdric can I ask a simple question that you may know the answer too?

It appears that Melbourne have yacht clubs wishing to host and accept Formula Kite Racing into them as does Perth, Brisbane & Townsville. Other than the guys on Lake Macquarie at the Amateur Windsurfing Club, is there any other AYF / NSWYA clubs supporting Formula Kite Racing?

The simple answer is not really.

But contrary to what many may think Kite racing is still very small at a local level anywhere in this country, and probly the world, but it is in it's early stages so it is to be expected and has probly prospered more than any other class in such a short time, largely with some help from a failed olympics bid.

Melbourne, perth and Sydney each probly have about a dozen regular kite racers on a good day.
In Melbourne it is kiters that have gone to clubs and with a lot of effort and perseverance convinced these two club to give it a shot with regular racing, If support dwindles then the clubs will loose interest and regular racing will cease.
One club has also included it into its annual regatta.

Perth clubs are the same, and it is kiters that have instigating the racing.
These guys are also lucky that people in high places over there believe kiting will rise to greater heights in the sailing world and are backing it more than anywhere else in the world ATM, good to see some forward thinking from the old fellas

Brisbane would like to but there are simply not enough numbers to run regular races so they have at least included Kiting into their annual regatta, this will be in the hope it does gain in popularity and they can get some regular members out of it.

Sydney is not a club, but club involvement would be welcomed.
Currently the racing is run by Kitepower, this is not a money making exercise when you consider they give up basically 6 saturdays a summer and offer very good prizes.

Lake macquarie.
We only have 3 or 4 regulars and we tag our racing on the back of what the winsdsurfers already do.
It is more practice actually as we dont keep track of who places were and keep it simple.

Townsville does not have regular racing as the numbers are not big enough.
But do include it in their annual regatta.

The clubs that include us in their annual regattas are lucky there is a couple of dozen super keen for racing and the fact we do support these events as we can take our gear on a plane.

The other thing to consider is there would be lucky to be 5% of sailing and yacht clubs that are in kite friendly locations, so even if a club wants to there are some logistics that most likely make it impossible
As an example there are about 12 yacht and sailing clubs on Lake Macquarie, but when you take into consideration launching your kite in lots of wind directions, trees, jetty's moored boats etc it rules out all but one as favorable 90% of the time and we still cant launch there in all wind directions and need to travel about 8min from the club to the other side of the bay.

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jordangirdis said..

wdric said..

jordangirdis said..
I know the NSW State Titles/Kitepower races will allow foiling. It will boost numbers in the kite racing scene.

You really think so!
Is there anyone wishing to race a foil board that doesnt currently race a formula board?
If we have about 8 regulars turn up for formula kite
Then if three of those 8 decide to go with foils it actually reduces the number in the fleet of the same type.

I know if there was only 5 regulars on a formula board I would be thinking twice about making the 2hr trip to Sydney every second Saturday.


KBR got bigger when they bought in the box rule, most people aren't interested in buying gear that is out of date in six months.
Sure you can make you own, but only a smaller number would wish to do this.

Kite Foil boarding should and will remain a development class for some time and that generally means smaller numbers of people doing it who are dedicated to the class.

A development class yes but Foil Racing will definitely gain momentum as it has serious advantages over formula KBR. Speed, ease of use, portability, kite size, wind range....

I still do agree that Formula kite racing is way more accessible but after spending a lot of time on the foils it is hard to fault.

There is one other guy in sydney foiling who isn't race boarding. More will follow if foils are easier to ride and cheap. Don't see many non-foiling moths these days!

I am saying this all having never foil raced

Select to expand quote

jordangirdis said..

MOWIT said..

@ jordangirdis just a couple of thoughts:

1. Wind range for Formula boards is 6 to 35 knots, yes?

Just curious when you say wind range for a Kite Foil for racing is better, haven't seen or heard of many people foil racing in over 20 knots?

2. Cost wise, a set of fins for a formula board is approximately $700 landed, what's the cost of a foil landed? $3,000?

as @ wdric has said, the attraction of the Formula Kite class is variety of manufactured product already proven, established national and international competitions, there already appears to be the widest wind range achievable and the cost is reasonable compared to KIte Foil at this point IMO.

Im not trying to make it a formula vs foiling debate - I like both, and I will still be at all the formula events. You can however go out in lighter winds on a foil. Foiling in above 20 knots no problems. Yes I agree it is still expensive, however a foil would cost about the same as a new raceboard with fins

I think it would be worthwhile just growing the sport a little though parallel scoring at events. It took us Aussies a few years to get into formula so we were already years behind. I just don't want to be so far behind again. Plus it's something new, exciting, and a chance to get the same feeling we all got the first time we jumped on a course board all over again.

I agree with Jordan. KBR is awesome and quite developed right now. It will remain strong and grow. Foiling is new and exciting. For people like myself and Jordan a new challenge to ride and compete in which doesn't mean we won't KBR anymore.

I am learning to foil and i already got beaten up on there high end race foils a lot worst than on a race board but its part of learning..

Range of use for Raceboards and Foils is similar. The good guys ride the foils in 25knts no worries bottom end is similar with maybe little advantage for foils but not in manoeuvres.

come on lads easy on the red thumbs, Jordan is one of the pioneers or KBR and he is always trying new funs things like his weapon at L2L, now foiling.. so show him some love ;)

twintip racing should be in format of slalom like they do at pkra. no point trying to hike upwind on a twin tip but you can go super fast in 20knts on a reach. some of the okra pros doing pretty well when it blows at the slalom events.

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MOWIT said..

INTHELOOP said..

twintip racing should be in format of slalom like they do at pkra. no point trying to hike upwind on a twin tip but you can go super fast in 20knts on a reach. some of the okra pros doing pretty well when it blows at the slalom events.

Okay Marv so what you're saying is.... for Jordan's benefit in Sydney,

1. Do 4 x formula races in one day, yes?
2. Then Jordan will do 4 x Twin tip / Surfboard figure of 8 course races (he already does this and for the life of me, WTF, well done)? or maybe Slalom?
3. Then he'll race whoever shows up with a foil as well for another 4 races?
4. If he could survive this, it would be really cool, 'cause he could do a whole regatta in 2 days of the same

Okay, I give up. If both of you can do that in one or two days of racing, maybe we should ask that, "Kite Board Racing" be resubmitted to the IOC as some kind of superhuman Heptathalon or whatever..... if it can be done, rather watch it than die trying thanks.

What's Jordan and your thoughts

For the Kitepower races, the foils would race with the raceboards.

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waterlife said...
James here.
Race Nationals and Freestyle Nationals have been sanctioned by KA and to go ahead in (late, i think) February.
We be promoting the event very soon.
And yes jordan, im thinking knock out round robin teams racing on the last day would be sweet.

Sounds great James!

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waterlife said..

James here.
Race Nationals and Freestyle Nationals have been sanctioned by KA and to go ahead in (late, i think) February.
We be promoting the event very soon.
And yes jordan, im thinking knock out round robin teams racing on the last day would be sweet.

Great news, but let us know asap, many will be making plans for other events as we get closer.
James, make sure IKA know asap aswell.

Yes Marv, freestyle and race at the same venue, not sure if they are at the same time or one after another

Select to expand quote

waterlife said..

James here.
Race Nationals and Freestyle Nationals have been sanctioned by KA and to go ahead in (late, i think) February.
We be promoting the event very soon.
And yes jordan, im thinking knock out round robin teams racing on the last day would be sweet.

Hope they announce some dates before the 3rd jan, jetstar still have some cheap flight to Melbourne in Feb

now that didnt

Select to expand quote

wdric said..

waterlife said..

James here.
Race Nationals and Freestyle Nationals have been sanctioned by KA and to go ahead in (late, i think) February.
We be promoting the event very soon.
And yes jordan, im thinking knock out round robin teams racing on the last day would be sweet.

Hope they announce some dates before the 3rd jan, jetstar still have some cheap flight to Melbourne in Feb

now that didn't happen, it will be more like last minute deals lol