Foiling progression.

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juandesooka said..
Just do it is good advice ... there really is no shortcut to learning the muscle memory here. It is so weird and different, the only want to learn is by feel, reading about isn't going to do much.

However, I do think back to that first few sessions, endless wipeouts over and over, with out of control lift shooting me in every direction. The scary part was going too slow (trying to be safer) and falling sideways, forcing the wings up, so you land on the wings ... I call it "the switchblade", ouch. Turns out a little speed is your friend, much like trying to ride a bike too slow.

Some learning aids may help. I have friends who used the 18/24/36" mast progression and were up and foiling in the first 30 seconds of trying. They experienced zero of what I did in that first week. Which is a lot less frustrating, but also lessens chance of injury. I'd recommend that to a beginner, at least for initial orientation stage.

The other thing is large wings. I was on an original carafino, about as low aspect as foils got. I can't imagine learning on one of these twitchy set ups even for intermediates. I have a Takuma sup foil, we were learning it behind the boat, and my friend who has never been on a foil was able to make it work on his first try. On a normal kite foil, he for sure would not have got it as quick. So that's another beginner option -- I know some of the kitefoil instructors out there are using these for that reason.

But back to JUST DO IT: even with some learning aids, there's no substitute for building that muscle memory other than practice.

You do have a point about those early days and the use of learning aids to minimise the crashes. It's your choice which track you want to take.

I watched a friend using a North Speedster with the learner wedge in the other day. He was doing long foiling runs in about 30 minutes with not many crashes. So it can work.

I had a shot on it , very easy to use. Very little lift / feedback at the front ... in fact I was looking for more. Be interested to ride it without the wedge.
Cab double agent less so but again still very easy to use plus others ...

On reflection , once I had better learning conditions it did not take me too long to get those longer runs (1-2 hours 500 metres + ) and it was generally on gybing I was crashing and doing that for a long time before the penny dropped.

Breaching became less of a problem as I got better depth control - in effect making my own short mast just by keeping it down. That is after all the first learning issue.

But now I have ridden a few others and can compare with a little knowledge , wrapped with my original choice even though it may have made the learning curve harder.
That's the path I chose based on 35 years of buying gear for windsurfing and kiting.
I have to thank Gorgo and SirV for their advice based on what they had learned and what they understood about my skills and experience. In the end it is my decision and then , just do it.

Just loving my jshapes performance on both freestyle and wave foils. Man , it is so nice to use and I sometimes think I don't deserve it.

Riding carbon gear is quite different to the other materials as well as it seems it's design DNA tends towards higher performance due to its racing background amongst those manufacturers doing it for long time. Eg Levitaz, Moses , Zeeko etc.

The mainstream manufacturers are more focussed on a design for everyone to use .... which can dumb it down a little for those who want that next level.

Just based on what I have used and seen and not bagging other makers at all. ...Happy to be corrected.

Sorry about long posts , becoming little obsessed and cant wait for the next session

Cheers.

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Radicalstate said..
Guys check out my friends at Bonaire, with some crazy foiling footage going FAST!!!!!!!

Thanks for that. I needed reminding of why I gave up windsurfing in the 90s. Just kidding - I didn't need reminding.

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Gorgo said..
This is just an excuse to show off my new board that should arrive in the next week or so.

What are the benefits of going for a smaller board?

^^^ what he said, and it's 2.8kg full carbon wrap and it fits better in the back of the car.

So much harder then I imagined it to be... I guess it's like riding a bike -once you get it, you get it! I went off St.Kilda yesterday my biggest kite is a 10m so I had a few issues with it not wanting to fly in the lulls. That and it's not a very stable kite (the LF NRG) doesn't want to stay at 12. So the lesson I learnt from the one water start I managed after wrestling the board and kite was foot further forward! The board went straight up and almost did a 360. I have since moved my front foot strap as far forward as I can - I might need to move the foil back (I have about 5cm to go but didn't think it would make that big of a difference).

I'm thinking of changing kites to something more foil friendly.

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ice said..

bigtone667 said..

ice said..

Gorgo said..
This is just an excuse to show off my new board that should arrive in the next week or so.

What are the benefits of going for a smaller board?

Less swing weight when turning and carving.

And that board has some nice chined rails, which improve your chances of recovery during unexpected touch downs.

I have heard the term swing weight but not really sure what it means? How does it impact turning and carving?

if I lose 5 kg body weight, does that impact swing weight?

Swing weight is an inertial type thing where the board mass once moving resists changing direction.
to make changing directions easier, either mass needs to reduce or force applied needs to increase.
Also where the mass is has a torque effect so further the mass from the fulcrum point the more force needed to initiate a turn.
your own body mass is in effect at the fulcrum point and can help apply the Yaw needed for turning.

So, reducing weight from board at furtherest point from fulcrum helps.
reducing body weight does not but will help in every other area of Kiting foiling and health.

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high as a kite said..

random101 said..
So much harder then I imagined it to be... I guess it's like riding a bike -once you get it, you get it! I went off St.Kilda yesterday my biggest kite is a 10m so I had a few issues with it not wanting to fly in the lulls. That and it's not a very stable kite (the LF NRG) doesn't want to stay at 12. So the lesson I learnt from the one water start I managed after wrestling the board and kite was foot further forward! The board went straight up and almost did a 360. I have since moved my front foot strap as far forward as I can - I might need to move the foil back (I have about 5cm to go but didn't think it would make that big of a difference).

I'm thinking of changing kites to something more foil friendly.

I had the same board 360 experience .
I wouldn't be changing too much straight away.
Try to start with a lot less pressure on your back foot.

What he says .

Try adopting a forward body position before you sine the kite ... forward pressure after is often too late when learning

Mast back +1

The right wind helps. Steady 15 knots and it doesn't matter what kind of kite you use, so long as you're familiar with it, 10m or maybe 12.

Stand up straight on the board and shift your weight with side lunges, keeping your torso upright and straight. Kinda like this, but not so far to the side:


...and keep your knees firm but reactive.

Aim to get the board out of the water not by an ollie or shifting your weight, but by increasing your speed until it naturally flies by itself.

Then skim the surface of the water with the board...

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Radicalstate said..
Guys check out my friends at Bonaire, with some crazy foiling footage going FAST!!!!!!!

There's a few guys here who are learning to windfoil.

...I thought I saw some big slams with guys learning to kitefoil -- but goddamn, those windsurfers go down HARD

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Gorgo said..
The windsurfing video shows guys just circulating and carving about. Good for them (seriously). It does look a bit unco, but that's ok too.

Here's a video of Antoine from J Shapes doing the same thing. This is just an excuse to show off my new board that should arrive in the next week or so.

Hey Gorgo did you get your new board? What's the verdict?