Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..boofta said..
There you go Chris, now you have deduced how black plastic tubing can absorb less heat from the sun over time
God help you, and all your crazy believers zealots
Did you also miss the part where FN pointed out that the smoke and haze has reduced the efficiency of solar systems this summer, as noted here;
....
It's not a deduction to say that smoke and haze have reduced the efficiency of solar systems this summer, it's a fact. Therefore if your pool is cooler than usual it is highly likely to be because your solar heating is not working as well. And of course, the idea that people should discard scientific measurements of the entire globe in favour of one person's memories of the temperatures of one swimming pool is bizarre indeed. It seems to show an amazing degree of egocentric thinking.
In my case at least, I saw the effect of this personally, which is why I brought it up. I have a system with 2 flate plate collectors, 2 pumps, and 2 storage tanks. Each has thermistors on the collectors and the tanks and you can see the rise in the temperatures as the collectors come up to temp and then the drop in temp as the pumps circulate the water, as well as the tank temperature levels. My system polls every 2 seconds so you can see exactly what is happening.
It is quite apparent on a nice summer day, when it is clear, that the collector temps go up quickly, and then the pump cycles. In summer it easily gets the tanks up to temp, but when you see clouds come over, the input drops dramatically. You can 'see' the clouds come over the collectors just by looking at the logging data.
On the hazy days from the bushfire smoke, I was a little bit surprised that the solar input was much lower and barely cycled the pumps. I think the vacuum tubes are meant to be better than flat plates in their ability to pick up indirect solar energy, but I just don't think there is much there to be had when there is cloud cover, or in this case smoke haze.
Anyone know about photovoltaics and cloud cover? I think I remember that it wasn't as bad as with solar hot water systems in its ability to get useful energy.
Edit: I just read Chris' links and they are talking about photovoltaics. Based on what I saw, I wouldn't be surprised if the energy lost on smokey days was more than 45% as from what I saw it seemed much less.
I guess with a pool for thermal mass it would take a while to change that temperature above ambient, and I am wondering if the loss of energy on the cool days is just not getting replenished enough to see the pool temp increase.
Either way, I think we have refuted the idea that a solar pool heater is a good indicator of global warming or cooling.
Select to expand quoteDelFuego said..Bara said..mazdon said..DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.
admittedly from Greenpeace, but the links within speak for themselves. undoubtedly both sides of our esteemed system with noses so deep in the troughs that it is hard to see a way out 
you could do a similar piece on the renewables industry and the left.
we get the muppets we deserve.
Barnaby case in point for sure but no worse than that rabid dog christine milne of the greens when she was propping up the gillard minority govt. We would have had an emissions trading scheme for over a decade now were it not for her idealism.
they got nothing on Gina, Barnaby and Liberal Party colleagues and their friends Rupert Murdoch
Not true .
Ive seen the renewables graft play out first hand at state level. Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine where way more opponents crop up and dig for any dirt they can find often funded by green lobby groups. Theres nowhere near the same oversight for your typical green project whether formally or by media 
Try tipping 10s of millions of taxpayer $ s into a clean energy project that you just happen to be associated with vs doing the same with a mine site proposal and see what happens...
all walks of politics are firmly snouts in the trough they are just different troughs but make no mistake theres a staggering amount of easy taxpayer money washing around in green projects globally and alot of corruption along with it.
Select to expand quoteBara said..DelFuego said..Bara said..mazdon said..DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.
admittedly from Greenpeace, but the links within speak for themselves. undoubtedly both sides of our esteemed system with noses so deep in the troughs that it is hard to see a way out
you could do a similar piece on the renewables industry and the left.
we get the muppets we deserve.
Barnaby case in point for sure but no worse than that rabid dog christine milne of the greens when she was propping up the gillard minority govt. We would have had an emissions trading scheme for over a decade now were it not for her idealism.
they got nothing on Gina, Barnaby and Liberal Party colleagues and their friends Rupert Murdoch
Not true .
Ive seen the renewables graft play out first hand at state level. Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine where way more opponents crop up and dig for any dirt they can find often funded by green lobby groups. Theres nowhere near the same oversight for your typical green project whether formally or by media
Try tipping 10s of millions of taxpayer $ s into a clean energy project that you just happen to be associated with vs doing the same with a mine site proposal and see what happens...
all walks of politics are firmly snouts in the trough they are just different troughs but make no mistake theres a staggering amount of easy taxpayer money washing around in green projects globally and alot of corruption along with it.
ok is that like News Corp vs The Big Issue?
"..Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine.." and the problem is?
Select to expand quoteDelFuego said.."..Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine.." and the problem is?Bara said..DelFuego said..Bara said..mazdon said..DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.
admittedly from Greenpeace, but the links within speak for themselves. undoubtedly both sides of our esteemed system with noses so deep in the troughs that it is hard to see a way out
you could do a similar piece on the renewables industry and the left.
we get the muppets we deserve.
Barnaby case in point for sure but no worse than that rabid dog christine milne of the greens when she was propping up the gillard minority govt. We would have had an emissions trading scheme for over a decade now were it not for her idealism.
they got nothing on Gina, Barnaby and Liberal Party colleagues and their friends Rupert Murdoch
Not true .
Ive seen the renewables graft play out first hand at state level. Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine where way more opponents crop up and dig for any dirt they can find often funded by green lobby groups. Theres nowhere near the same oversight for your typical green project whether formally or by media
Try tipping 10s of millions of taxpayer $ s into a clean energy project that you just happen to be associated with vs doing the same with a mine site proposal and see what happens...
all walks of politics are firmly snouts in the trough they are just different troughs but make no mistake theres a staggering amount of easy taxpayer money washing around in green projects globally and alot of corruption along with it.
ok is that like News Corp vs The Big Issue?
The clues are in the words, but the dirty old guard still clings to the 1920's like it's do or die.
Select to expand quoteNotWal said..
Potholer on the fires and climate change - no bull****, just facts - loverly
bob hawkes fault. great video find . somebody else who isn't suprised thank you
Select to expand quoteDelFuego said..
"..Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine.." and the problem is?
Seriously? You reckon corruption is ok as long as its for renewable energy?
fark me the worlds a whacky place for some
^ Correction, claiming alleged corruption in order to present some semblance of moral equivalence.
Select to expand quoteBara said..DelFuego said..
"..Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine.." and the problem is?
Seriously? You reckon corruption is ok as long as its for renewable energy?
fark me the worlds a whacky place for some
yup, they don't even realized that they live a contradicted life or perhaps they do not understand what contradict means 
Malcolm Turnbull on Donald Trump this week:
"He (Trump) uses the politics of fear when it suits him," Turnbull said. "Trump is the leading climate denier in the world. He's leading the most influential nation in the world and he's actively working against global action to reduce emissions."
Yup, I guess Turnbull is just another contradicted soul working for the socialists. 
Can anyone explain why a greenhouse gas will cause more erratic climate?
Greenhouses are to stabilise an environment.
The media tells us that CO2 is a greenhouse gas that is causing global warming, and that this warming creates more erratic weather causing cooler and hotter temps (climate change).
But through which mechanism does it create more freezing?
I understand hotter temps = more humidity + bigger clouds = stronger wind + more rain.
Venus has very stable surface temp (www.universetoday.com/14306/temperature-of-venus/)
I can easily explain lower temps creating more extreme weather both cold and hot, and so can anyone who lives in a desert climate.
Snowing in Egypt for 1st time in 112 years and repeating again.
www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/snow-in-cairo-for-the-first-time-in-112-years/news-story/a8a5a0373abea25687e98b857519d197
www.express.co.uk/news/world/1228356/extreme-weather-forecast-winter-snow-egypt-blizzard-greece-europe-weather-met-office
Snowing in Saudi Arabia, UAE
stepfeed.com/below-zero-the-unprecedented-drop-in-temperatures-across-the-gcc-5266
www.thenational.ae/world/gcc/snow-turns-parts-of-saudi-arabia-into-a-winter-wonderland-1.963796
and they're giving aid to Pakistan bcos it's so cold
www.bolnews.com/pakistan/2020/01/pakistanis-affected-by-extreme-cold-received-ksrelief-aid/
It's also freezing in India
www.nytimes.com/2020/01/01/world/asia/india-cold-pollution.html
and on the other side
egyptindependent.com/at-least-17-killed-as-extreme-cold-sweeps-across-afghanistan/
Canada colder than Mars for consecutive years
www.narcity.com/news/this-canadian-city-is-literally-colder-than-siberia-and-mars-right-nowhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/12/29/its-feels-colder-in-parts-of-canada-than-on-mars/
calgary.ctvnews.ca/warmest-temperature-in-alberta-still-colder-than-the-warmest-temperature-on-mars-1.4768811
Even BC which is bathed in warm Mexican waters is freezing
www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-weather/parts-of-british-columbia-in-grip-of-rare-extreme-cold-weather-idUSKBN1ZE2DQ
Spain freezing, again, where they've had massive crop losses (in greenhouses).
www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/01/18/weather-warning-red-alert-activated-as-snow-freezing-temperatures-rain-and-high-winds-sweep-across-spain/
Japan is having the worst snow season in 20 years apparently. That should be cause enough to stop using fossil fuel... other than the flight to get there and the buses to get around
Select to expand quoteBara said..DelFuego said..
"..Its actually easier to get away with for a nice clean renewable project than a dirty mine.." and the problem is?
Seriously? You reckon corruption is ok as long as its for renewable energy?
fark me the worlds a whacky place for some
Im calling out the corruption between the Liberal party, Barnaby Joyce, the coal corporations and other corporates.
You are alleging corruption on renewable energy projects, can you be more specific and we can bring get the authorities to investigate Maybe Barnaby would like to check into it and get some kickbacks for his political party
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Japan is having the worst snow season in 20 years apparently. That should be cause enough to stop using fossil fuel...
Cooler air = less humidity = less rain and snow.
You're right FN; Less snow = less people flying to japan = less fossil carbon fuel use.
Select to expand quoteholy guacamole said..
Malcolm Turnbull on Donald Trump this week:
"He (Trump) uses the politics of fear when it suits him," Turnbull said. "Trump is the leading climate denier in the world. He's leading the most influential nation in the world and he's actively working against global action to reduce emissions."
Yup, I guess Turnbull is just another contradicted soul working for the socialists.
He is not a socialist, he is a capitalist that has lots of money invested in renewable energy companies.
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..holy guacamole said..
Malcolm Turnbull on Donald Trump this week:
"He (Trump) uses the politics of fear when it suits him," Turnbull said. "Trump is the leading climate denier in the world. He's leading the most influential nation in the world and he's actively working against global action to reduce emissions."
Yup, I guess Turnbull is just another contradicted soul working for the socialists.
He is not a socialist, he is a capitalist that has lots of money invested in renewable energy companies.
I do not think Turnbull understand the meaning of capitalism nor a capitalist himself
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..holy guacamole said..
Malcolm Turnbull on Donald Trump this week:
"He (Trump) uses the politics of fear when it suits him," Turnbull said. "Trump is the leading climate denier in the world. He's leading the most influential nation in the world and he's actively working against global action to reduce emissions."
Yup, I guess Turnbull is just another contradicted soul working for the socialists.
He is not a socialist, he is a puppet that has lots of other peoples/corporation money invested in renewable energy companies.
I corrected a few words for you
Select to expand quoteDelFuego said..TonyAbbott said..holy guacamole said..
Malcolm Turnbull on Donald Trump this week:
"He (Trump) uses the politics of fear when it suits him," Turnbull said. "Trump is the leading climate denier in the world. He's leading the most influential nation in the world and he's actively working against global action to reduce emissions."
Yup, I guess Turnbull is just another contradicted soul working for the socialists.
He is not a socialist, he is a puppet that has lots of other peoples/corporation money invested in renewable energy companies.
I corrected a few words for you
He could be a puppet
But he stands to make lots of capital from the climate change industry
Maybe he will buy a bigger water front house like al gore did
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..DelFuego said..TonyAbbott said..holy guacamole said..
Malcolm Turnbull on Donald Trump this week:
"He (Trump) uses the politics of fear when it suits him," Turnbull said. "Trump is the leading climate denier in the world. He's leading the most influential nation in the world and he's actively working against global action to reduce emissions."
Yup, I guess Turnbull is just another contradicted soul working for the socialists.
He is not a socialist, he is a puppet that has lots of other peoples/corporation money invested in renewable energy companies.
I corrected a few words for you
He could be a puppet
But he stands to make lots of capital from the climate change industry
Maybe he will buy a bigger water front house like al gore did
1 - Where is your evidence that Turnbull has lots of money invested in renewables?
2 - If pollies are biased towards their own investments, it is therefore logical that the Coalition is biased towards investment in property since they are very heavily invested in housing. Are you complaining about that bias? Logically, you must complain about one source of bias if you complain about another source of bias.
OK so to wrap up, Tony Baloney thinks Turnbull has lots of money invested in renewable energy projects and Bara thinks there's lots of corruption in renewable energy projects, any more than the average for any projects.
Neither appear to have provided any evidence.
Yet they openly question the evidence that human activity is creating climate change that must be addressed.
Funny.
Conspiracy theorists! Farq.
Next they'll be claiming arsonists caused most of the horrendous bushfires this summer instead of dry lightning, which is more likely in climate change induced drought.....oh wait....that conspiracy theory has already been spread on the right wing nutters space bubble and thoroughly debunked.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..1 - Where is your evidence that Turnbull has lots of money invested in renewables?
2 - If pollies are biased towards their own investments, it is therefore logical that the Coalition is biased towards investment in property since they are very heavily invested in housing. Are you complaining about that bias? Logically, you must complain about one source of bias if you complain about another source of bias.TonyAbbott said..DelFuego said..TonyAbbott said..holy guacamole said..
Malcolm Turnbull on Donald Trump this week:
"He (Trump) uses the politics of fear when it suits him," Turnbull said. "Trump is the leading climate denier in the world. He's leading the most influential nation in the world and he's actively working against global action to reduce emissions."
Yup, I guess Turnbull is just another contradicted soul working for the socialists.
He is not a socialist, he is a puppet that has lots of other peoples/corporation money invested in renewable energy companies.
I corrected a few words for you
He could be a puppet
But he stands to make lots of capital from the climate change industry
Maybe he will buy a bigger water front house like al gore did
Don't be ridiculous Chris, that would require that Tony Abbott grasps the concepts of integrity and consistency, which have eluded him his entire political life.
Select to expand quoteholy guacamole said..
OK so to wrap up, Tony Baloney thinks Turnbull has lots of money invested in renewable energy projects and Bara thinks there's lots of corruption in renewable energy projects, any more than the average for any projects.
Neither appear to have provided any evidence.
Yet they openly question the evidence that human activity is creating climate change that must be addressed.
Funny.
Conspiracy theorists! Farq.
Next they'll be claiming arsonists caused most of the horrendous bushfires this summer instead of dry lightning, which is more likely in climate change induced drought.....oh wait....that conspiracy theory has already been spread on the right wing nutters space bubble and thoroughly debunked.
You mate are firmly living in bizzaro world along with delfugo.
I have been a believer of climate change science since before the likes of you started getting hysterical about it.
But as per the script if you dare question anything to do with CC you are labelled a denialist conspiracy theorist etc. It really is childish.
I'm simply pointing out that the business people and pollies involved with the renewables industry are as greedy as those that aren't. I don't think that I know that from 15 odd years experience dealing with them.
The crime is that the effort to mitigate climate change is being wasted and hijacked by the renewables industry and various other emissions reductions programs like CERs in Europe.
But you 2 clowns think that's ok. In fact whackos like you 2 are why they get away with it and why we have basically missed the boat on tackling CC effectively. You are as naive as a skandy kid with autism.
Not one I'm involved with but check out Carnegie clean energy for a local example. There are thousands more like this around the globe. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted.
I doubt you will bother though. Stopping the waste of resources earmarked for tackling climate change isn't much of a buzz. Better to hyperventalate about conspiracy theorists and imaginary denialists.
I'll leave ya to it.
Select to expand quoteBara said..holy guacamole said..
OK so to wrap up, Tony Baloney thinks Turnbull has lots of money invested in renewable energy projects and Bara thinks there's lots of corruption in renewable energy projects, any more than the average for any projects.
Neither appear to have provided any evidence.
Yet they openly question the evidence that human activity is creating climate change that must be addressed.
Funny.
Conspiracy theorists! Farq.
Next they'll be claiming arsonists caused most of the horrendous bushfires this summer instead of dry lightning, which is more likely in climate change induced drought.....oh wait....that conspiracy theory has already been spread on the right wing nutters space bubble and thoroughly debunked.
You mate are firmly living in bizzaro world along with delfugo.
I have been a believer of climate change science since before the likes of you started getting hysterical about it.
But as per the script if you dare question anything to do with CC you are labelled a denialist conspiracy theorist etc. It really is childish.
I'm simply pointing out that the business people and pollies involved with the renewables industry are as greedy as those that aren't. I don't think that I know that from 15 odd years experience dealing with them.
The crime is that the effort to mitigate climate change is being wasted and hijacked by the renewables industry and various other emissions reductions programs like CERs in Europe.
But you 2 clowns think that's ok. In fact whackos like you 2 are why they get away with it and why we have basically missed the boat on tackling CC effectively. You are as naive as a skandy kid with autism.
Not one I'm involved with but check out Carnegie clean energy for a local example. There are thousands more like this around the globe. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted.
I doubt you will bother though. Stopping the waste of resources earmarked for tackling climate change isn't much of a buzz. Better to hyperventalate about conspiracy theorists and imaginary denialists.
I'll leave ya to it.
reverse gear engaged
Select to expand quoteBara said..holy guacamole said..
OK so to wrap up, Tony Baloney thinks Turnbull has lots of money invested in renewable energy projects and Bara thinks there's lots of corruption in renewable energy projects, any more than the average for any projects.
Neither appear to have provided any evidence.
Yet they openly question the evidence that human activity is creating climate change that must be addressed.
Funny.
Conspiracy theorists! Farq.
Next they'll be claiming arsonists caused most of the horrendous bushfires this summer instead of dry lightning, which is more likely in climate change induced drought.....oh wait....that conspiracy theory has already been spread on the right wing nutters space bubble and thoroughly debunked.
You mate are firmly living in bizzaro world along with delfugo.
I have been a believer of climate change science since before the likes of you started getting hysterical about it.
But as per the script if you dare question anything to do with CC you are labelled a denialist conspiracy theorist etc. It really is childish.
I'm simply pointing out that the business people and pollies involved with the renewables industry are as greedy as those that aren't. I don't think that I know that from 15 odd years experience dealing with them.
The crime is that the effort to mitigate climate change is being wasted and hijacked by the renewables industry and various other emissions reductions programs like CERs in Europe.
But you 2 clowns think that's ok. In fact whackos like you 2 are why they get away with it and why we have basically missed the boat on tackling CC effectively. You are as naive as a skandy kid with autism.
Not one I'm involved with but check out Carnegie clean energy for a local example. There are thousands more like this around the globe. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted.
I doubt you will bother though. Stopping the waste of resources earmarked for tackling climate change isn't much of a buzz. Better to hyperventalate about conspiracy theorists and imaginary denialists.
I'll leave ya to it.
OK so we agree that Climate Change is real now. This is sounding like a scroto spin campaign.
You are raising issues of wasted money on different renewables projects, which is a completely different topic.
Barnaby being a muppet and Liberal Party corruption is where it seems you are getting your knickers in a twist about and have to try and deflect.
Select to expand quoteBara said..
The crime is that the effort to mitigate climate change is being wasted and hijacked by the renewables industry and various other emissions reductions programs like CERs in Europe.
Not one I'm involved with but check out Carnegie clean energy for a local example. There are thousands more like this around the globe. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted.
Carnegie might have failed with their wave power machine, but it looks to me like their technology would be useful for energy storage. Their generator was intended to force air through on land turbines with the air being pumped by the motion of buoys rising and falling with the waves. I think their demonstration plant got destroyed by a storm.
But that relatively low pressure air driven turbine could just as easily be driven by air coming from a submerged bladder or tank in any calm body of water (so it wouldn't suffer storm damage). You pump it full of air during the daytime and bleed it out in the evening. That would work, but you'd have to ask Macro if it would be economic
Mind you, the CEO was ridiculously overpaid, which does make it look like grants were being rorted
Climate change is real
It has been naturally changing for billions of years and will continue to naturally change for billions more
Wow, there's some illogical stuff going on in that vid. For example, he picks out ONE town in ONE state in ONE country on ONE continent and pretends that it is a proper measurement of temperatures - and then he claims that "warmists" are "cherry picking"!! Why did he choose that one town? How has he checked that the 1800s to 1930s temperatures in that particular town are not affected by instrumentation (ie a lack of Stevenson Screens) or movement of the weather station (which happens often). Why did he pick one little town and not an average of all measurements? What happened to temperatures in all the other little towns in the world?
He also appears to make some bizarre claims about the "American Meteorological Society" study, too. For example, he somehow ignores that the vast majority of members who were in meteorological and climate science who were surveyed who publish in climate science says that GW is occurring and mostly because of humans; 61 of them said it was, versus just 12 who said they did not know GW was happening or was not happening, and 5 who said it was happening but natural. Similarly, among those who work just in climate science, 78 said GW was happening mostly because of humans and just 1 said it was not happening, with only 5 saying it was happening but naturally etc.
So this guy's own figures show that the vast majority of expert respondents believe in human caused climate change, yet somehow he spins that and ignores the fact that a whacking 89% of these experts say that the earth is warming and yet this weirdo makes it appear that they don't believe in global warming. That's just silly and dishonest.
Select to expand quoteBara said..holy guacamole said..
OK so to wrap up, Tony Baloney thinks Turnbull has lots of money invested in renewable energy projects and Bara thinks there's lots of corruption in renewable energy projects, any more than the average for any projects.
Neither appear to have provided any evidence.
Yet they openly question the evidence that human activity is creating climate change that must be addressed.
Funny.
Conspiracy theorists! Farq.
Next they'll be claiming arsonists caused most of the horrendous bushfires this summer instead of dry lightning, which is more likely in climate change induced drought.....oh wait....that conspiracy theory has already been spread on the right wing nutters space bubble and thoroughly debunked.
You mate are firmly living in bizzaro world along with delfugo.
I have been a believer of climate change science since before the likes of you started getting hysterical about it.
But as per the script if you dare question anything to do with CC you are labelled a denialist conspiracy theorist etc. It really is childish.
I'm simply pointing out that the business people and pollies involved with the renewables industry are as greedy as those that aren't. I don't think that I know that from 15 odd years experience dealing with them.
The crime is that the effort to mitigate climate change is being wasted and hijacked by the renewables industry and various other emissions reductions programs like CERs in Europe.
But you 2 clowns think that's ok. In fact whackos like you 2 are why they get away with it and why we have basically missed the boat on tackling CC effectively. You are as naive as a skandy kid with autism.
Not one I'm involved with but check out Carnegie clean energy for a local example. There are thousands more like this around the globe. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted.
I doubt you will bother though. Stopping the waste of resources earmarked for tackling climate change isn't much of a buzz. Better to hyperventalate about conspiracy theorists and imaginary denialists.
I'll leave ya to it.
..LOL and you're claiming I'm hysterical.... Never claimed corruption was OK in any sector.
Anytime you want to give us some examples that corruption is any more prevalent in renewable energy investment than any other sector, I'm all ears.
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..Climate change is real. It has been naturally changing for billions of years and will continue to naturally change for billions more
So basically, you're still deep in denial about our direct influence on climate change at present....check
