NNNBrewery is right on the money. It would be interesting to see Mark's sync speed, SNR, Attenuation, etc specs if he logs onto his modem.
As NNNBrewery also said should have been FTTP everywhere, for the indefinite future, but for the short term FTTN still performs well if everything is in order. (Stupid Government!)
My friend is between 400-500m from the Node in way out part of town and still get a max sync rate of 118Mbps, but chooses the 50Mbps plan.
Guess that why it's called the "Node Lottery", but I believe most people are getting great speeds, so they never need to whinge about it online. Pity FTTN will never be able to reach 1Gbps like FTTP.
I think eventually a future government will just run fibre to everyone on a case to case basis (with a subsidised cost to the property owner.)
Even with 100Mbps, the internet doesn't really change vs the 12Mbps I was on before.
Uploads are fantastic now though. If you need to download 50GB (Steam) it's lightning. Torrenting would be awesome, but that is deemed ILLEGAL and you will GO TO JAIL!!!!! Netflix is the same(but can watch in 4k at 10GB an hour now) , Youtube is the same, everything loads a bit quicker. Distance to the server and Ping is really more important for noticeable speed.
Select to expand quoteHarrow said..
LOL, is this what NBN is all about? We've spent in excess of $60bn of public money so that people can individually stream TV shows when a single aerial sends a show to millions of people.
That's a one-way argument.
Relevant. I'm happy with FTTN for now, but f**k having the node on your nice front lawn.
thewest.com.au/news/wa/perth-family-angry-over-ugly-nbn-node-outside-their-home-ng-b88628809z
Select to expand quoteWindpasser said..
Spotty, I have FTTN.
Fibre to the node from the Pinjarrah POI, then 180m copper run from the node to the pit out the front(node is about 180m away), then copper run from the pit to the inside phone socket, then a 25M extension cord to the VDSL2 modem.
Stats
Blue box is what I could theoretically sync at 142.7Mbps
Because I am on a 100/40 plan i sync at 107.7Mbps, real world nearly always 96Mbit, all day every day.
Aah Pinjarra, briefly worked there long ago in a heatwave. That's good to know the speeds you and your friend are getting on FTTN VDSL2 impressive for cooper over those distances.
Here is just one graph below, there are many graphs
but no matter how good the the wholesale bandwidth at the POI the quality of your copper pairs and distance to the FTTN cabinet will be the limiting factor basically. So if a subscribers copper pair had an issue affecting speed previously that was located between the exchange and where the FTTN cabinet they should get a far better experience with that portion no longer involved.
Where as if the issue was in the last leg of the re-used copper portion between the FTTN cabinet and the subscriber premises, it may still affect the maximum possible/expected speed for the given distance to the node.
Edit.. re Wind passer's comment, like I said lots of graphs posted wrong one previously in my haste
Select to expand quoteWindpasser said..
Relevant. I'm happy with FTTN for now, but f**k having the node on your nice front lawn.
thewest.com.au/news/wa/perth-family-angry-over-ugly-nbn-node-outside-their-home-ng-b88628809z
Likewise for power/light pole, bus stop/shelter, speed hump etc, all have a negative affect on your property's overall valuation.
She should try negotiate a deal accommodating the node inside her fenceline and charge an annual rental fee. Good luck with that, though does happen for some mobile and wind gen site's if they really need to acquire space on a private property.
Select to expand quoteSpotty said..Windpasser said..
Spotty, I have FTTN.
Fibre to the node from the Pinjarrah POI, then 180m copper run from the node to the pit out the front(node is about 180m away), then copper run from the pit to the inside phone socket, then a 25M extension cord to the VDSL2 modem.
Stats
Blue box is what I could theoretically sync at 142.7Mbps
Because I am on a 100/40 plan i sync at 107.7Mbps, real world nearly always 96Mbit, all day every day.
Aah Pinjarra, briefly worked there long ago in a heatwave. That's good to know the speeds you and your friend are getting on FTTN VDSL2 impressive for cooper over those distances.
Here is just one graph below, there are many graphs but no matter how good the the wholesale bandwidth at the POI the quality of your copper pairs and distance to the FTTN cabinet will be the limiting factor basically. So if a subscribers copper pair had an issue affecting speed previously that was located between the exchange and where the FTTN cabinet they should get a far better experience with that portion no longer involved.
Where as if the issue was in the last leg of the re-used copper portion between the FTTN cabinet and the subscriber premises, it may still affect the maximum possible/expected speed for the given distance to the node. 
What you on about Spotty. FTTC - Fibre to the Curb, means the fibre will run to the pit out the front of the property.
So the copper distance would be irrelevant. This graph is used all the time. The drop off for VDSL2 is nowhere near that bad in reality.
Our speeds are not impressive over copper after the Node for VDSL2 for those distances. They are expected.
And my copper is not new. No upgrade from the pit to first phone outlet in at least 30-40 years. Don't remember them ever relaying the copper in the street. It's old, Ive seen inside the pit, looks like vomit in glad wrap but it still works.
Also that woman has a right to complain, they just put in on the boundary and no problem, which is what they will probably do.
You graph is wrong. August 2017
www.whistleout.com.au/Broadband/Guides/nbn-fttn-everything-you-need-to-know
NBN says customers connected to the National Broadband Network via FTTN will be able to achieve download speeds of 100Mbps provided they are within 400m of the node, and speeds of up 60Mbps if they're more than 700m from the cabinet.In an address given at the National Press Club this time last year, NBN CEO Bill Morrow said that he expects nine out of ten homes connected to the FTTN network to receive "lightning fast" speeds of between 50Mbps and 100Mbps.
From the gurus at Whirlpool years ago in 2015
"I am by no means an FTTN Fanboi , but I would disagree with this statement . Looking at the VDSL 2 Modem Stats thread , it appears most people are achieving or just below the 50/20 tier . a few examples -:700 Metres from Node - 56/12
650 Metres from Node - 52/13
596 Metres from Node - 50/14
400 Metres from Node - 96/35"
You are right in that the fault lies in the quality of the copper from the node to the property. 400M is fine for full 100Mbps
Awesome Spotty. FTTC is great. Almost as good a FTTP for much less.
For people that don't already have FTTN, be hopeful it goes to FTTC.
But FTTN isn't "THAT" bad now and can easily be upgraded in the future to FTTC or FTTP (with Govt Subsidies hopefully as everyone is becoming forced to be Internet reliant) by a future Government.
The fibre already goes to the node, in the future create a new fibre distribution point for each property/curb pit in the zone. Then knock them ugle nodes down. Everybody will be happy.
It's only your tax $$$ doing it 5 times over. Don't stress.
Copper is fine
FTTN is good
Saving everyone's tax dollars is the best
You're welcome
^^ yes pity FTTC did not evolve sooner.
The problem with a lot of old areas where the copper leed in has a very old narrow diameter conduit and is kinked, full of mud etc. This was found to become far more costly to replace to allow pulling thru a new fibre cable into the home. ...And thus would greatly effect the roll out time frame and overall cost.
Not to mention a lot of people don't wont their front yard, garden bed, driveway etc dug up interfered with etc.... even though there is some great underground boring/conduit pull-thru tech about, the cost and time to carry out would of been huge I imagine.
Agree Spotty.
FTTC is what it really should have been to begin with. Then choice of Fibre to inside or 5-20M+ of lead in copper to the first outlet, appropriate equipment that will be socially outdated in 5 years..
(You only got Internet 8? I've got Internet 9SGXS you loser with an 18w Frampolater). Only robots can tell the difference. Anything else the property owner can deal with at the property owners expense.
What a F**kup. But it's still a 1st world problem. Our country has a small population and is HUGE.
It's not really that bad. Get off the bandwagon and stop bitching everybody. I heard, I heard. Most people are happy, especially not payin line rental to Telstra anymore.
There are children in Bangladesh that have 7G mobile and 100Gbps Fibre to the Cardboard Box, Australia must be ****.. So the media would have you believe.
So with FTTC looks like G.Fast 1Gbps firstly possible and XG.Fast 8Gbps several years away...
www.nbnco.com.au/blog/the-nbn-project/nbn-delivers-8Gbps-over-copper-lines-onxg-fast-trial
The reason that we at nbn and so many of our fellow network operators are so excited about XG.FAST is that it enables us to think about delivering multi-gigabit speeds to end-users on the hundreds of millions of copper lines that are already deployed around the world.We all know that Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) can deliver great speeds, but getting a fibre-optic line into each and every premises is extremely complicated and very expensive - but if we can run XG.FAST over the existing copper lines via an FTTC set-up then we can potentially save on both time and cost, not to mention convenience for the end-user.Running XG.FAST on an FTTC network would have us run new fibre to the telecom pit in the street outside the house and connect it to a Distribution Point Unit where it links with the existing copper line that runs the remaining short distance - typically under 30 metres - to the end-user premises.
FTTC is an excellent compromise of capability vs cost. FTTN is not. All our problems are first world problems, that's where we live. If we do not solve our 1st world problems we will slip into the 2nd world (does that even exist? I only hear about 1st world and 3rd world).
NNNBrewery, Wow, I have actually never heard of the 2nd world either. Mind Blown. You are correct.
FTTC should be and WILL be the future in OZ. It will be up to you if you want to replace that 5 to even 200M copper from your pit-to-socket, for what could be minimal speed gain.
The NTD will be a waterproof soap sized object in your pit. Who know maybe that's where the Wifi will come from?
FTTC includes "active" equipment in the pit, which will be powered from your home. FTTP only includes "passive" equipment between the exchange and the home. I would expect over time NTDs in the pit will begin to fail, and they too will eventually be replaced.
Actually I think the whole thing will be useless. It's almost exponential in it's futility.
The Wright brothers flew the first "successful" plane in 1903 and now we have 787 Dreamliners and A380s, F-35s, we "visited" the moon.
Massive Cruise "casino" ships, Bulk Carriers, Man made canals. Nuclear powered carrier "cities" all within a lifetime.
Sky high buildings reaching towards "God"?\
Records, magnetic tape, Analog, digital, Capacity. B&W, Flat CRT, Plasma, LCD, OLED, INTERNET!!!!
We think we know everything at the time. Let's Build a Network for the next 30 years. No, use it now, give it time and it will be all but useless in probably 10 years.
Wireless will kill it. New tech will kill it. Just need to do enough to keep up.
No, wireless will not kill it. The physics tells us that fibre can deliver many orders of magnitude more bandwidth than wireless (I was at a talk where it was suggested 100000 times more). Wireless is awesome, and for sure some people will "cut the cord" and go all wireless. I would say wireless is complementary.
We already use fibre for Tbps communications - that's 10000 times faster than the 100Mbs services being provided on NBN. Do you really think the fibre is going obsolete any time soon?
I have greater aspirations than "just keeping up". Why not try and lead?
Right again nnnBrewery.
For now Fibre is the king. It will not be obsolete anytime soon. It is the backbone of the networks, and will probably always be. Wireless is complementary. For the user/customer it is the convenience of wireless that will be enough for most people. It's the plans and tower congestion that can suck right now. But still many people choose mobiles or mobile broadband. What about in 10 years? 20?
Article from 2015. 1 Terabit achieved.
qz.com/350887/this-is-the-fastest-wireless-network-in-the-world-but-you-cant-use-it-yet/
"This is the same capacity as fibre optics but we are doing it wirelessly,"
Even with 5G towers they will need fibre to connect between them.
My sister and her 2 children family use Optus 4G Mobile BB between the 2 places they reside due to work. 1 plan 100GB $70 a month with unmetered Netflix (The kids use 150GB unmetered a month just on Netflix). At one location they can't get fixed or or even Fixed wireless NBN (they tried very hard) but always have a 4G signal.
One little pebble 4G modem, High speed broadband everywhere from their car, to the yard, travelling, at a friends house, in a car park.
They have unplugged and will not go back to a fixed line. 4G has many limitations but it's real, now. NBN would not help them even after several property visits.
When the Wright Brothers flew their first successful plane the horse and cart was king, roads were no longer limiting but still necessary for slower, bulkier things.
Who knows where tech like Quantum Entanglement routers and Qubit Networks (as a rabid example) will take us in the upcoming years.
Anyway now I'm drunk and off topic.
NBN good, Alcohol Bad.
It's bizarre that telcos are allowed to advertise speeds "up-to X speed".
Imagine going to the liquor store and coming back with a box containing "up to 24 bottles of beer". 
Well that's the difference between goods and services under the Trade Practices Act isn't it? For goods, quantity must be a threshold level, whereas services can be advertised on more qualitative measures because a threshold cannot always be guaranteed.
Imagine going to your barrister asking to win a court case blisteringly well and only winning adequately.
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..
It's bizarre that telcos are allowed to advertise speeds "up-to X speed".
Imagine going to the liquor store and coming back with a box containing "up to 24 bottles of beer".
The ACCC are onto this already, and have issued an industry code to improve the terms used in advertising (I think they have to provide some descriptions on typical speeds during peak or something).
It's not really fair to compare a telco network to a case of beer. It's fairer to compare it to your roads. Just because the speed limit says 60kmh, doesn't mean you will get that. Most major road suffer peak hour congestion, where you might be lucky to get 30-40kmh during peak, or it could be a carpark. Want to build a road that guarantees 60kmh all day every day? Excellent, let's just whack on another 10 lanes. That won't cost much.
It is not economically viable to "guarantee" you get your plan's speed rate all day. It "should" be possible to give you a good experience even during peak, accepting you won't get your speed plan rate all the time. The main NBN issue is that it costs too much to add on "extra lanes", and this is totally separate to discussions of access technology.
My experience with nbn is really bad.
The house I'm in now can't get any type of internet because telstra hasn't upgraded the exchange because the nbn is coming at the start of 2017. No wait March 2017. No wait Sept 2017. No wait Jan 2018. No wait ?????.
Years of waiting for a service that is not going to be any better than adsl.
The rental property I own when the tenants move out the the new tenants will most likely be forced to use nbn satalite which is worse than the adsl that's originally there.
Could be worse a guy I work with can't get any internet and is not slated to get nbn until late 2018.
Select to expand quotennnbrewery said.....
If you are an ISP, it costs somewhere between $20 and $40 to pay for the "AVC" a month, and then it cots $15 / Mbps per month at the NBN interconnect (CVC). So, if you were to allow for 3Mbps per subscriber (which would pretty much guarantee an excellent service for everyone at the moment), you are talking around $75/month per customer to pay NBN. Then you need to pay for your own costs like network equipment, staff, marketing, support, etc. Then you want some profit. Please look at the typical price of an internet plan on the NBN. This is the real problem. It's not a technical issue (though FTTN is stupid). It's not an issue with the NBN as an piece of infrastructure. It's a commercial issue, driven by the mandate to make a commercial rate of return. This is something PMG/Telecom/Telstra never needed to do as it built out the Copper Access Network across Australia because it was government owned and back then people accepted the government making infrastructure investments I guess.
The problem will be solved when a future government decides they want to make the NBN a good news story, and decide to change the mandate to make a commercial return, either by writing off the investment, or allowing a longer period to make the return, or maybe some combination.
Wow... NBN CEO Bill Morrow and PM Trumbull have been in the media a lot today. Seems like they are shouting as loud as they can the issue making a commercial return and trying to lay the groundwork to write off some of the investment already. If they play this right, it will fix the wholesale bandwidth issues.
wow happy for you
our nbn is completely ****ing useless
telstra crap i can't even be fuct writing about
we love telstra
so helpful
i can nearly understand them
4 corners last night had a story on the NBN and the disaster its turning out to be. It showed how NZ has speeds 10X faster than what we can hope to have and don't suffer the slow speed due to our providers not buying enough band width so they can keep costs down. It was showing how cable was being run in shallow trenches with out conduit and unregulated installers doing poor work.
I cannot get NBN as I'm considered a difficult connection so just have to wait until they turn off my Optus and then wait for a time for them to get around to working out how to change a 2 way box into a 4 way box right in front of my house. Apparently this simple exchange of connection boxes is considered too hard to do even though I have had contractors tell me its a simple job.
What Abbot and Turnbul have done to our NBN is an act of treason as far a I'm concern. Destroying our future just to create a point of difference between them and labor.
Relax, life is worth living again
www.news.com.au/technology/online/nbn/fears-for-nbn-as-mobile-internet-provides-faster-speeds-and-more-reliable-service/news-story/dbe8cb9d842d280cf0cf77a12a851ba0
What NBN connection??
There is a green box around the corner which has the NBN stamp on it. From there to my place it is old, old copper wire.
That is like reducing a 30 inch water pipe down to a 1 inch pipe and expecting the higher delivery rate.
No wonder so many people are dissatisfied.
