Not sure what to make of everything Seems to be a lot of Escalating tensions, Not able to purchase china`s junk using PayPal or credit card anymore. Will only except bitcoin or other e currencies. Maybe its a good thing to use alternative countries for manufacturing We have had it to good for to long? #get the **** out of china stop imports exports I will fight for sovereignty **** China and there biological weapons.; BOYCOT CHINA Anyways pretty good of the topic rant Im going to bed check post in 2 weeks lol
While we are at it should we thank China for funding our better roads via taxes, our economy pumped through 2008 while the US got smashed, the upgrades of our universities, investing billions that provides jobs?
While we are at it we should thank them for destroying our manufacturing base and of course COVID.
How did you work this one out?? "While we are at it should we thank China for funding our better roads via taxes,"
No doubt their infiltration of our governments, primary and secondary industries and educational institutes will be of great benefit to us too. NOT!!!
This above is typical ostrich behaviour and thinking. Hide head deep in the sand and do not accept reality. Reality is such that China is becoming greatest economy on Earth and we are better learn to live with that. We could do them our friends or foes. Choice is entirely on us.
Thanks the unions for destroying car manufacturing. We subsidized the crap out of it and it still didn't survive.
Then China got just better at it. They work harder, they work smarter. Ask how many finish work at 5pm. Ask how many drink a slab a week.
Select to expand quotebjw said..
Thanks the unions for destroying car manufacturing. We subsidized the crap out of it and it still didn't survive.
Then China got just better at it. They work harder, they work smarter. Ask how many finish work at 5pm. Ask how many drink a slab a week.
I agree unions here, like most of the industrialised world, overstepped the mark. However do not forget the role of big business perpetually squeezing & shuffling industry for profits.
I've spent enough time throughout Asia including China to see what's happening at the coalface. It's like travelling back in time to the start of the industrial revolution. Search 996 work culture and consider if its what we want in Australia in the 21st century. Max hours at minimum wage leading to examples like the Foxconn suicides.
China didn't get better, the West demanded cheaper and China gave us cheaper, at any cost...
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
This above is typical ostrich behaviour and thinking. Hide head deep in the sand and do not accept reality. Reality is such that China is becoming greatest economy on Earth and we are better learn to live with that. We could do them our friends or foes. Choice is entirely on us.
So china won't mind if the world sends them a bill for, say 50 trillion dollars to cover the costs of the last year. That's what friends are for.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
This above is typical ostrich behaviour and thinking. Hide head deep in the sand and do not accept reality. Reality is such that China is becoming greatest economy on Earth and we are better learn to live with that. We could do them our friends or foes. Choice is entirely on us.
Sport, you have expressed this sentiment before, feel free to grovel and do as China wishes, perhaps even relocate there, or decide that enough is enough. The world is essentially getting smaller, and sadly we have seen this sort of activity previously and I have no wish for my kids to be faced with the situation my parents generation were faced with, no ostrich here just a practical realist.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
This above is typical ostrich behaviour and thinking. Hide head deep in the sand and do not accept reality. Reality is such that China is becoming greatest economy on Earth and we are better learn to live with that. We could do them our friends or foes. Choice is entirely on us.
Was going to respond to this but decided not to as i might get banned by the moderators.
As you we type into a chinese made appliance, via a Chinese made router. I'd rather it be Australian made for sure.
But you have to respect their performance that is above just labour rate, otherwise it'd be all Indian made.
Their military on the other hand is reason for AU to invest in our military. In saying that for them to take action would cripple their economy. So their actions would be strategic and well placed. Having said that most wars don't follow logic.
They own half of Australia anyway thanks to mis managed government policy. shame the owners could probably recover it by force Just saying.
Select to expand quotebjw said..
But you have to respect their performance that is above just labour rate, otherwise it'd be all Indian made.
Yeah!! No workers comp, no super, no holiday pay, no penalty rates for o/t, no WPHS, just total exploitation of labour.
No civilized country can compete with that on a cost basis.
Then there is the Chinese intellectual theft.
The only things the Chinese are creative with is copying and breaking rules.
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..
In 2021 This looks like racism.
In 2021 this looks like economic bullyism.
If everything was about cheaper labour then there are many countries that have much cheaper labour and compliance costs. China is winning because they did organized everything smartly into industrial hub, transport network and cheap electricity.
Look what we have here. We are just about to build our first rail line connecting Melbourne and Brisbane. Till now everything is going through country on road and trucks. Electricity? After 6 month after installing my solar panel electric company cut now my feed in tariff to 3c per kWh. instead of complaining on Chinese let's look what we could do here better. Even learn from them.
Why can't we melt our iron ore here using our coal and solar and send them steel, pure iron bids? Why couldn't we extract copper and aluminum using our cheapest solar electricity?
Answer?
Maybe because we can decided to invest now 300 billion Into tanks, submarines and missiles instead in on steel mills, rail roads and electricity transmutation lines ,irrigation and hydro storage.
Look at this example.
If your neighbour is doing well, have better car and house then you (Maybe even prettier wife!).
What you are going to do ?
Get a stone smash their windows, burn his car, beat the women and kids?
Or rather get yourself to work harder and smarter?
How has the RMB remained so low during these times of unprecedented prosperity? CCP/Government manipulation? They wouldn't do that would they? Surely we are all playing by the same rules and the game is fair. 
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
Why can't we melt our iron ore here using our coal and solar and send them steel, pure iron bids?
Answer?
The smelter in Mt Isa was fought against by the greens. They won. It is now in the Philippines. If the Greens had supported it, it would've been rebuilt within Austalian EPA modern standards. So yes Australia is cleaner, but the Green made the world a more polluted place.
Select to expand quotebjw said..Macroscien said..
Why can't we melt our iron ore here using our coal and solar and send them steel, pure iron bids?
Answer?
The smelter in Mt Isa was fought against by the greens. They won. It is now in the Philippines. If the Greens had supported it, it would've been rebuilt within Austalian EPA modern standards. So yes Australia is cleaner, but the Green made the world a more polluted place.
Twiggy Forrest is working on that now , using Hydrogen , he knows that as soon as China finds another supplier of Iron Ore its lights out for the Pilbra .
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
If everything was about cheaper labour then there are many countries that have much cheaper labour and compliance costs. China is winning because they did organized everything smartly into industrial hub, transport network and cheap electricity.
Look what we have here. We are just about to build our first rail line connecting Melbourne and Brisbane. Till now everything is going through country on road and trucks. Electricity? After 6 month after installing my solar panel electric company cut now my feed in tariff to 3c per kWh. instead of complaining on Chinese let's look what we could do here better. Even learn from them.
Why can't we melt our iron ore here using our coal and solar and send them steel, pure iron bids? Why couldn't we extract copper andaluminum using our cheapest solar electricity?
Answer?
Maybe because we can decided to invest now 300 billion Into tanks, submarines and missiles instead in on steel mills, rail roads and electricity transmutation lines ,irrigation and hydro storage.
And don't forget all that costly and time consuming R&D can be negated when stolen. But the ability to make anything rust is a great Chinese achievement.
Select to expand quotebobajob said..Macroscien said..
If everything was about cheaper labour then there are many countries that have much cheaper labour and compliance costs. China is winning because they did organized everything smartly into industrial hub, transport network and cheap electricity.
Look what we have here. We are just about to build our first rail line connecting Melbourne and Brisbane. Till now everything is going through country on road and trucks. Electricity? After 6 month after installing my solar panel electric company cut now my feed in tariff to 3c per kWh. instead of complaining on Chinese let's look what we could do here better. Even learn from them.
Why can't we melt our iron ore here using our coal and solar and send them steel, pure iron bids? Why couldn't we extract copper andaluminum using our cheapest solar electricity?
Answer?
Maybe because we can decided to invest now 300 billion Into tanks, submarines and missiles instead in on steel mills, rail roads and electricity transmutation lines ,irrigation and hydro storage.
And don't forget all that costly and time consuming R&D can be negated when stolen. But the ability to make anything rust is a great Chinese achievement.
To some extend you are right that we and the rest of the world should demand from China to stop cheating and delivering fakes.
Fakes like battery that you could not longer trusts.
I bought recently battery for Ryobi 18v 6Ah at $43 each on eBay and tested capacity soon after.
Real capacity is only 2.7Ah , as still brand new, and no guarantee how long even that last.
The problem is that this Australian seller sold already 5123 similar batteries to our people.But this is completely different problem that can not be solved by sending warships.
I am sure that Chinese government will be completely happy to support and participate in crack down on their own crooks if we ask them for help in this matter.\
As they did already with their own Alibaba, biggest merchant punished billions of dollars or law avoiding practices.Chinese are quick to investigate our exported goods for quantity , The same should apply now to their export clearly breaching all consumers laws while delivering less then half of promised, advertised quantity.
on the picture above testing rig provide clear result : 2,737 mAh instead of promised 6,000mAh.
If you are buying similar lithium battery Chinese made- be aware and do your test, ask for refund- as I already did!BTW. this is something that is real and we could prove to Chinese and demand instant action - unlike suspicious accusation re human rights, and other activity where our accusations are imagined and not based on facts that can be proved.
Select to expand quotebjw said..
While we are at it should we thank China for funding our better roads via taxes, our economy pumped through 2008 while the US got smashed, the upgrades of our universities, investing billions that provides jobs?
And just so long as we agree with them, and never criticise them/hurt their feelings, let them take over the South China Sea, and soon the South Pacific, and have them influence our political system, and on and on.
Yeah. Nah.
China got invited into the party, the market, and now they have gotten drunk after one drink, and have started bullying the guests. They've ruined the vibe. They need to leave.
China is socially and politically immature.
You must be on a different planet if you think your under capacity chinese battery (tested with a equally dodgy chinese tester) is more relevant or important than "imagined" human rights violations. Where actual peoples are getting wrecked and thrown in hard labour camps.
If you had been less of a tight arse and bought batteries from your local shop, then you would have been able to just take it straight back, instead of whining on a forum. Yes, they would have still been chinese batteries of coarse, but better traceability back to the brand.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..bobajob said..Macroscien said..
If everything was about cheaper labour then there are many countries that have much cheaper labour and compliance costs. China is winning because they did organized everything smartly into industrial hub, transport network and cheap electricity.
Look what we have here. We are just about to build our first rail line connecting Melbourne and Brisbane. Till now everything is going through country on road and trucks. Electricity? After 6 month after installing my solar panel electric company cut now my feed in tariff to 3c per kWh. instead of complaining on Chinese let's look what we could do here better. Even learn from them.
Why can't we melt our iron ore here using our coal and solar and send them steel, pure iron bids? Why couldn't we extract copper andaluminum using our cheapest solar electricity?
Answer?
Maybe because we can decided to invest now 300 billion Into tanks, submarines and missiles instead in on steel mills, rail roads and electricity transmutation lines ,irrigation and hydro storage.
And don't forget all that costly and time consuming R&D can be negated when stolen. But the ability to make anything rust is a great Chinese achievement.
To some extend you are right that we and the rest of the world should demand from China to stop cheating and delivering fakes.
Fakes like battery that you could not longer trusts.
I bought recently battery for Ryobi 18v 6Ah at $43 each on eBay and tested capacity soon after.
Real capacity is only 2.7Ah , as still brand new, and no guarantee how long even that last.
The problem is that this Australian seller sold already 5123 similar batteries to our people.But this is completely different problem that can not be solved by sending warships.
I am sure that Chinese government will be completely happy to support and participate in crack down on their own crooks if we ask them for help in this matter.\
As they did already with their own Alibaba, biggest merchant punished billions of dollars or law avoiding practices.Chinese are quick to investigate our exported goods for quantity , The same should apply now to their export clearly breaching all consumers laws while delivering less then half of promised, advertised quantity.
on the picture above testing rig provide clear result : 2,737 mAh instead of promised 6,000mAh.
If you are buying similar lithium battery Chinese made- be aware and do your test, ask for refund- as I already did!BTW. this is something that is real and we could prove to Chinese and demand instant action - unlike suspicious accusation re human rights, and other activity where our accusations are imagined and not based on facts that can be proved.
LOL, if we applied a dodgy goods test and ban to Chinese products our shelves would be bare.
Select to expand quotePrfctChaos said..
You must be on a different planet if you think your under capacity chinese battery (tested with a equally dodgy chinese tester) is more relevant or important than "imagined" human rights violations. Where actual peoples are getting wrecked and thrown in hard labour camps.
If you had been less of a tight arse and bought batteries from your local shop, then you would have been able to just take it straight back, instead of whining on a forum. Yes, they would have still been chinese batteries of coarse, but better traceability back to the brand.
One day, one may compare favorably how Chinese treat their minorities to those that treat their indigenous people. You may not really want to go this path ...unless you seat on another planet and not be aware of injustice here and somewhere....
I am warning you. You don't want to go this path because one day Chinse may ask you why the right full owners of the richest in resources land on this planet could not afford their mobile phones and those that try face prison time ( as Telstra case recently illustrate) 
Select to expand quotePrfctChaos said..
You must be on a different planet if you think your under capacity chinese battery (tested with a equally dodgy chinese tester) is more relevant or important than "imagined" human rights violations. Where actual peoples are getting wrecked and thrown in hard labour camps.
If you had been less of a tight arse and bought batteries from your local shop, then you would have been able to just take it straight back, instead of whining on a forum. Yes, they would have still been chinese batteries of coarse, but better traceability back to the brand.
Yep, I think that's why its better to buy the cheap chinese crap from retailers like Bunnings than freelance it direct from random chinese suppliers. At least Bunnings/Ryobi have to stand by their product. If I were the chinese suppliers of substandard stuff, I would also sell the substandard stuff direct... who would claim against you? Even if 1% did, does it really matter?
It's like buying a chinese laptop replacement battery. You will not get the same capacity, but you are not paying the same price either.
Imagine if you bought chinese sourced tractors and then they went bang? Who would you complain to?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Imagine if you bought chinese sourced tractors and then they went bang? Who would you complain to?
actually I bought Chinese made 50HP tractor 4WD that I am very happy with 
cost $5,500
so I can not complain on the price either
Next on my wish list is Chinese bulldozer...at $12,000 must be worth something even as scrap metal, but I hope for long usefull life on my hobby farm....
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..FormulaNova said..
Imagine if you bought chinese sourced tractors and then they went bang? Who would you complain to?
actually I bought Chinese made 50HP tractor 4WD that I am very happy with
cost $5,500
so I can not complain on the price either
Next on my wish list is Chinese bulldozer...at $12,000 must be worth something even as scrap metal, but I hope for long usefull life on my hobby farm....
And just think, if you lived in China you wouldn't have a hobby farm, probably no hobbies at all. 
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..Macroscien said..FormulaNova said..
Imagine if you bought chinese sourced tractors and then they went bang? Who would you complain to?
actually I bought Chinese made 50HP tractor 4WD that I am very happy with
cost $5,500
so I can not complain on the price either
Next on my wish list is Chinese bulldozer...at $12,000 must be worth something even as scrap metal, but I hope for long usefull life on my hobby farm....
And just think, if you lived in China you wouldn't have a hobby farm, probably no hobbies at all.
Chinese tourist are the biggest money spenders around the world. At least have been before pandemic...
Most western businesses profitability depend now on Chinese market with Tesla half of their profit coming too.Without Chinese students our universities are now going to starve to death, hotels buncrupt, farmers and fisheries too, growers and wineries may start looking for another jobs too...coal mines need to be flooded, LPG gas stay where it is - deep underground...Iron ore has only 5 years life left till new mines in Africe release strain on supply.BTW- what we assume as greatest money spinner ever - iron ore prices above $240 per tone make only the best advertising for Chinese trying to shift their business to African land now....
www.afr.com/companies/mining/aussie-companies-stripped-of-iron-ore-projects-in-africa-20201221-p56pck
Lets imagine what this hundreds of billions of dollar now flowing to Australia means for poorest African countries ! While they will capture all our iron ore business !!
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
www.afr.com/companies/mining/aussie-companies-stripped-of-iron-ore-projects-in-africa-20201221-p56pck
Lets imagine what this hundreds of billions of dollar now flowing to Australia means for poorest African countries ! While they will capture all our iron ore business !!
Well, that's not a bad thing. China will get that ore in 10 years, which means that they are not expecting to start a war and will expect that the rest of the world will still want their stuff at the time. Good news! No war! more stuff!
