Select to expand quoteGasHazard said..eppo said..
Not exactly related but to support what I said above. A prac student (teaching today) told me all assignments etc they write and marking feedback etc they must the "they"
pronoun. Cannot use he or she - period. nor with any conversation with students now that's free
speech oppression at its finest. Not sure why they cannot see the hypocrisy
These pricks are poisoning the next gen man with their tribal diatribe. This cascade of bollocks is and will slowly seep into everyone's life and workplace. I say defund all these academic university whackers and nip it in the bud. Then again that sounds slightly Stalinist lol. Less BS lazy cats sitting at university providing no present nor future gdp Potential
it's a worry man, sorry it's a worry - they.
wtf
It seems utterly trivial to me, probably not so trivial to minority genders. Even if you don't accept gender proliferation I don't see why you wouldn't just regard it as inconsequential silliness. Why get your knickers in a knot about that?
its not the correct use of english
Jordan Peterson Refused to use gender pronouns at his university.
Hehe
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
Just normal here.
Born in a generation before everyone had to take a side (which was really just one generation ago), when everyone was allowed to have an opinion on different issues without being labelled one way or the other, but take every opinion with a grain of salt.
Back (about ten yrs ago) when there were only two equally important genders, everyones lives mattered and the word "they" referred to a group of associated people. not someone confused about whether they wanted to have a penis or a vagina from day to day.
As i said, just normal here. But i guess the less corrupt among us would say i'm on the right of centre since we all need to be labelled now. not sure where. I'll leave it to their better judgement.
Just normal here.
What a slept cop out
Born before everyone had to take a side. Have you ever heard of World War 2, a time in the century that you were born in, that all humanity choose to pick a side.
Fascism (Far Right) or Centrism (Democracy)
I'm sure Hitler, Stalin and many other despots all thought their views where just Normal
When has Humanity not been obsessed with Labels. English, German, French, Ranga, Wog, Black, Coloured, White.
We have all been labelled in some way since the moment we have been born, since the beginning of time
I suppose you hit it on the head with your earlier post Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
Normal is the new far right.
It seems as though you are confused about your own sexuality
If you are confident in your own sexuality it really doesn't bother you how others choose to define theirs.
I suppose it's also a bit like knowing your own political alignment. If your are embarrassed about it and try to conceal it, you get upset when others express theirs.
Select to expand quoteIanR said..Subsonic said..
Just normal here.
Born in a generation before everyone had to take a side (which was really just one generation ago), when everyone was allowed to have an opinion on different issues without being labelled one way or the other, but take every opinion with a grain of salt.
Back (about ten yrs ago) when there were only two equally important genders, everyones lives mattered and the word "they" referred to a group of associated people. not someone confused about whether they wanted to have a penis or a vagina from day to day.
As i said, just normal here. But i guess the less corrupt among us would say i'm on the right of centre since we all need to be labelled now. not sure where. I'll leave it to their better judgement.
Just normal here.
What a slept cop out
Born before everyone had to take a side. Have you ever heard of World War 2, a time in the century that you were born in, that all humanity choose to pick a side.
Fascism (Far Right) or Centrism (Democracy)
I'm sure Hitler, Stalin and many other despots all thought their views where just Normal
When has Humanity not been obsessed with Labels. English, German, French, Ranga, Wog, Black, Coloured, White.
We have all been labelled in some way since the moment we have been born, since the beginning of time
I suppose you hit it on the head with your earlier post Subsonic said..
Normal is the new far right.
It seems as though you are confused about your own sexuality
If you are confident in your own sexuality it really doesn't bother you how others choose to define theirs.
I suppose it's also a bit like knowing your own political alignment. If your are embarrassed about it and try to conceal it, you get upset when others express theirs.
It appears you've lost track of the context of the discussion.
others are free to be whatever they want to be, don't worry about biology, or that thing hanging between your legs. if you want to declare yourself a "lattesexual" and pour a cup of coffee over yourself each night before bed, then go for it. But don't expect other people to want to sleep with you on your wet patch, or accept your new gender as anything other than another persons flight of fantasy. Nor should you expect them to remember to refer to you by your preferred pronoun "cafe" at every meeting. Using words out of context and then expecting everyone else to as well because "feelings" is just plain selfish.
"Just normal here" means i don't believe in being put into a box and labelled because i believe one thing and not another, it's divisive and dismissive of the idea that people can hold one view about one subject and another view on another subject. But hey, if we all need to be in boxes then lets stick wheels on them and have a race to the bottom.
society is always changing, but when theres a dramatic shift over a short space of time, quick enough that people are saying, "wait, what?" Then theres something wrong with the way it's happening.
Even if you call your dog a cat, it's still a dog.
Or as the late, great, pale, male and stale William Shakespera put it rather more poetically "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".
Lately I have been having to use google to get the full story - 99% of news comes from ABC for me. Seems to me ABC tells the story, but misses the bits that aren't completely aligned with the narrative.
Example: how many other countries have banned travel from India (not that I support a travel ban, quite the opposite) at the time when ABC reported 'Australia makes international headlines with travel ban'. Didn't see which international news outlets reported on it and couldn't be bothered doing more of my own fact checking. As a minimum, ABC should include the context and a list of other countries that banned travel. Yes! There are others...
And... good ol' auntie's language has been very emotive.
Example: "Australian man dies after contracting COVID-19 in India..." this is sad news and the conversation here had all been about one type of class of citizen. This man was a permanent resident - and doesn't have the same immediate right of entry as a citizen. Again - gotta tell the story the "right" way.
This is a good article on current media that I quite like
theescapeartist.me/2021/05/04/we-dont-just-consume-the-news-eventually-the-news-consumes-us/
Select to expand quotePugwash said..
Lately I have been having to use google to get the full story - 99% of news comes from ABC for me. Seems to me ABC tells the story, but misses the bits that aren't completely aligned with the narrative.
Example: how many other countries have banned travel from India (not that I support a travel ban, quite the opposite) at the time when ABC reported 'Australia makes international headlines with travel ban'. Didn't see which international news outlets reported on it and couldn't be bothered doing more of my own fact checking. As a minimum, ABC should include the context and a list of other countries that banned travel. Yes! There are others...
And... good ol' auntie's language has been very emotive.
Example: "Australian man dies after contracting COVID-19 in India..." this is sad news and the conversation here had all been about one type of class of citizen. This man was a permanent resident - and doesn't have the same immediate right of entry as a citizen. Again - gotta tell the story the "right" way.
Auntie is so friggin bigoted, would love to see their budget get shafted, they are so against the government (of any persuasion)
If anyone knows a story where they actually agree or support our government please advise.
Trouble is all other media seem to be F**k headed as well.
Select to expand quoteTonz said..
Auntie is so friggin bigoted, would love to see their budget get shafted, they are so against the government (of any persuasion)
If anyone knows a story where they actually agree or support our government please advise.
Trouble is all other media seem to be F**k headed as well.
You might as well say that the government shouldn't have auditors looking at how they're spending money.
What you are attacking is the national conscience. Maybe you don't have one, but that is a fair bit of what makes the difference between man and monkey. The ABC and its like in other developed nations are that little voice in our collective heads that remind us that we know that what we are doing is not necessarily good.
They're not meant to be cheerleaders.
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..
Even if you call your dog a cat, it's still a dog.
Or as the late, great, pale, male and stale William Shakespera put it rather more poetically "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".
Quite, while peeps should be, and are, free to determine their own gender, their chromosome combination is either one of two things.
one should not confuse the naming of a thing with the thing itself, ding an sich. I. Kant
the neoliberal personality will of course deride everything and everyone that fails to agree with their narrative
www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/aug/15/us-professor-who-says-being-transgender-is-a-delusion-to-speak-at-wa-university
decent article here www.firstthings.com/article/2015/10/transgender-delusion
As science advances we discover what we did not know in the past.
Yes, we know there are men and women within homo sapiens. It has also been revealed this is not always cut & dry for all members of the species. To expand on the Shakespeare quote, roses may smell nice but beyond this emotional observation we know there are over 300 naturally occurring variations of roses. All of which are still roses and still smell nice. In other words, all individuals are part of greater collectives and not all individuals are the same.
Having said this, why or what we call each other is semantics and ultimately politically driven, hence the misguided ideological BS currently floating around on both sides of the public conversation.
Uncertainty, in the presence of vivid hopes and fears, is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without comforting fairytales. Bertrand Russell
Sure if someone wants to be referred to as a pink elephant that should be socially acceptable. If it improves the quality of their life.
But I think a lot of people see the ABC defending the minority at the cost of the majority at times.
At it again. www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-09/china-urges-un-states-to-avoid-xinjiang-event/100126490
"China has urged United Nations member states not to attend an event planned next week by Germany, the United States and Britain on the repression of Uyghur Muslims and other minorities in Xinjiang."
And just 1 paragraph later... it's your turn to feel bad about your behaviour, Australia!
China says the organisers of the event, which also include Australia, Canada and several other European states, use "human rights issues as a political tool to interfere in China's internal affairs like Xinjiang, to create division and turbulence and disrupt China's development".
I could've sworn they told me the event was planned by Germany, US and Britain... but then all of a sudden it's Australia, Canada and some unnamed European nations... still trying to figure out if the US is in Europe or Canada!
Sloppy ABC, sloppy...
Not sloppy at all. A good story proceeds slowly, not revealing everything in the first sentence. It's like a striptease. Not very interesting if everything goes at once.
But in the actual story there is a little confusion. I read it as China describing all nations attending the meeting as "organisers", not that the original listing was short.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
Not sloppy at all. A good story proceeds slowly, not revealing everything in the first sentence. It's like a striptease. Not very interesting if everything goes at once.
But in the actual story there is a little confusion. I read it as China describing all nations attending the meeting as "organisers", not that the original listing was short.
You read it as... and that's the point...
These aren't fictional stories. News should be written in the upside-down triangle structure. News should be internally consistent. Who, what, where, when, why...
ABC wants Australia to feel shame. Just stick to the facts. Tell us about the event, where it is, who's involved, why... then, if needs be, tell us about China's reaction. Instead, this article has been framed to suit a narrative right from the beginning.
Just reread the article, but I can't see how you come to the idea that the ABC wants Australia to feel shame. If you said that China wants Australia to feel chastened I'd understand, but not ABC wants Australia to feel shame.
It would be nice if the ABC went to as much effort to understand and communicate the Australian perspective as it spends telling us about the Chinese perspective.
It's loaded from the beginning...
I take it most of you haven't spent time in a tertiary institution lately. If you had you would completely understand these journalistic (so called) intentions. These muppets are the by product of this environment. That's the source - no point in arguing over the result. It's worse than you could ever imagine.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
I take it most of you haven't spent time in a tertiary institution lately. If you had you would completely understand these journalistic (so called) intentions. These muppets are the by product of this environment. That's the source - no point in arguing over the result. It's worse than you could ever imagine.
This reads like a conversation the church probably had a few centuries ago when discussing Copernicus, Keppler & Galileo.
Tertiary Institutions are supposed to create challenging thought, by presenting 2 or several sides of a concept and allowing the student to challenge and make an opinion. They are created to do this. They aren't.
They are pushing a political agenda and presenting it as the only option.
Land Inundation
News: On 15 October, the ABC 7pm News aired a report on the different climate change policies of the US Presidential candidates. The report described rising water levels inundating residential land in Maryland's Dorchester County as 'one of the more stark examples of the way climate change is impacting on the world we live in'. The report as filed by the US Correspondent made clear that the land had been 'slowly sinking since the end of the last ice age'...... Regrettably, this relevant context was edited from the 7pm News story due to time constraints
Select to expand quotebjw said..
Tertiary Institutions are supposed to create challenging thought, by presenting 2 or several sides of a concept and allowing the student to challenge and make an opinion. They are created to do this. They aren't.
They are pushing a political agenda and presenting it as the only option.
You are right, the universities are a political force. A foreseeable outcome of an educated society capable of thinking for itself outside mainstream dogma. If you consider Uni's haven't been at the forefront of social/political debate, you are ignoring the very public history of the topic. Either way, what would be your recommended actions to counter this threat to Australian culture. Remove the social sciences or at least tell them what they can or cant research, discuss and teach? That's how it has worked in Russia & China, should work here too?
If you wish to believe universities don't encourage critical thinking, rigorous debate or even go through a process of due diligence before enacting wider policy, so be it. It is not my experience.
Select to expand quoteBrent in Qld said..A foreseeable outcome of an educated society capable of thinking for itself outside mainstream dogma.
Whereas the mainstream works in society, relying on satisfying customer demands.
The goal of a university is to satisfy the need for future government funding. They aren't always rewarded on the successful education of young minds.
Select to expand quotebjw said..Brent in Qld said..A foreseeable outcome of an educated society capable of thinking for itself outside mainstream dogma.
Whereas the mainstream works in society, relying on satisfying customer demands.
The goal of a university is to satisfy the need for future government funding. They aren't always rewarded on the successful education of young minds.
Cherry picking one statement, ignoring the questions raised... Fair enough, replies in kind below
1: You are attempting to align mainstream society with the squeakiest conservative wheels as represented by the media and call this customer demand. The bulk of media are after your attention, clicks & shares in return for advertising dollars and will aim to appeal to those easily outraged with emotionally charged topics. Because the media creates outrage with sensational headlines does not mean the topics represent wider society.
2: I agree a goal of uni's is future government funding, this is no secret. It is not the only task nor is it alone with this endeavor. Any major industry that is tasked with maintaining &/or improving the lot for Australians is similar. Education in this regard is in a cycle of funding much like the public spend for military, infrastructure, health care, take your pick...
3: Please define what you mean by 'the successful education of young minds?'
Select to expand quoteBrent in Qld said..
... If you consider Uni's haven't been at the forefront of social/political debate, you are ignoring the very public history of the topic...
I am not sure it is the Universities themselves that have been at the forefront of social/political debate in the past.
I think you could certainly argue that university students and even academics have been a political and social force of change, but is that not likely to be due to the fact that Universities are, by default, places where lots of people of such persuasions gather and can also easily form into powerful group voices ? Lots of quiet voices together make a loud noise. Universities are places where lots of people come together.
But I am not sure the actual Universities, being the institutes themselves, have really spoken up and shouted about social and political change in the past. They might campaign on higher education funding issues and the such like that is directly related to their operation, but they haven't historically campaigned on broader political issues.
Maybe the issue is that they are starting to do so, or they appear to be doing so ?
The University itself should be a place of teaching and research, not a place of social or political advocacy. If those being taught want to speak out on some topic, individually or en masse, then fair enough but if they are being taught to speak out about a particular topic in a particular way then that is a totally different issue.
Some years ago my brother came home from school with a list of religions... Buddhism, Catholism, Communism. Seriously. My mother lost her sh about it.
Select to expand quotebjw said..
Some years ago my brother came home from school with a list of religions... Buddhism, Catholism, Communism. Seriously. My mother lost her sh about it.
Why?
Select to expand quoteBuster fin said..bjw said..
Some years ago my brother came home from school with a list of religions... Buddhism, Catholism, Communism. Seriously. My mother lost her sh about it.
Why?
Communism isn't a religion, it is an ideology I.e something you can believe in that doesn't require faith
mum must've been pedantic
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..
Even if you call your dog a cat, it's still a dog.
Or as the late, great, pale, male and stale William Shakespera put it rather more poetically "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".
No.
journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/jn.00896.2007
