Your advice pls: 1st season wing setup for +30yr high wind/wavesailer/windfoiler

Hey wingers, this forum is RAD! I'm looking for your input on my first wing setup and really appreciate any advice/feedback . I've exhausted online research and am about to pull the trigger!

Me: 45yo 80kg 175cm male, windsurfing since 10yo, former slalom/course racer in gorge, got into wavesailing OR coast, Maui, Barbados, Canaries. strong windsurfer, ok wavesailer. windfoiled 2 season (~25 days). Now weekend warrior dad just trying to max every extra sesh on the water.

Local conditions: 12-20 knts v gusty lake (min/no swell) and sometimes ocean/big lake steadier15-20/25 w 3-5 ft swell. The foil is a game changer on our gusty lake with the efficiency to keep ripping thru the big holes.

Existing windfoil setup: learned on/been riding a Slingshot Wizard 125, i76/i84 on 90cm mast and 80% of the time on Ezzy wave 5.2. While i've been loving the ease and low end grunt of this setup (sneeze = on foil ), the 125 is a barge and these foils have more lift than i need (don't really use i84).

Reason I'm switching to wing: my windfoil setup is 23kg/50lbs (8.0kg wizard w straps, 5.9kg 90cm/i76 (tutle) foil, 8.9kg rig/sail) and i figure i can get almost the same power/lift from a 5.0 wing kit that weights only 25 lbs! I like to get air, do tricks on transitions, slash/carve, and/or be mega efficient linking up gusts on foil.

Wing Setup I'm looking to get:
Wing: 5.0 OR Aluula Glide - given i'm on a 5.2 sail most of the time windfoiling, i'm going to start with one 5.0 wing. i think the higher PSI and more stable OR wing will have better low end/pumpability and be just as "luffable" when it gets 20+. will add a 4.0 if needed. Excited to see all the other aluula protos on insta... and future development to increase the durability and stability of wings (rigid components).

Foils: Lift HA200 and then HA120 (i had to warranty all my SS gear (foil and board) so shop support is important to me and my local shop has had great experience with lift. also considering SAB w950 (worried about durability), Armstrong 1125/925 (mega pricey here in Canada), and MFC (no local supoort). anyone know why lift has no separate fuse? drawbacks/benefits of this? seeing more "monoblock" setups Gong/Axis/North being offered... and would suspect these are stronger and lighter but less adjustable.

Board: initially thinking a Drifter Pro 80/90L then add a smaller prone surf. however, don't like the fact that the v1.1 Drifters, while stronger than first batch, are apparently +7kg. prolly hard to go wrong with this board thou. But i'm blown away at all the options: Appletree Jazz (4'9/10), Wave Chaser 155/165, Go Foil 5' - anyone comment on the ride, durability, and weight of these boards?

I've been told going volume =my weight will be a compromise learning to wing and for low wind. I'm cool with this and am comfortable waterstarting a 5.2 in almost no wind, schloging knee deep, paddling, etc. most of my time windsurfing was on 70-95L wave boards (albeit generally in +20knts) so used sm volume if wind dies.

The main questions i have:
- is it worth going smaller than 80/90L given my local lake has zero swell and can be 5-15 mega gusty? thinking i'll just learn on this setup and get a smaller 50/60L board when i'm better;
- anyone care to comment OR Aluula Glide vs. '22 Duo Aluula Slick?
- good reasons to NOT go with the lift HA200/120?... it's almost the same $ as Armstrong kit so...
- also considering a JP Freak Foil (6'2" 95L, 25") and X-Foil (5'8"/100L.27") which can run a sail or wing but the additional cost and compromises over a dedicated wing board don't seem worth it (i'm ready to ditch my sails in <20kts)

thanks again for any comments/feedback/input/experience.
can't wait to get winging (IMO wingsurf = windsurf 2.0)
S

I've got roughly the same background as you in terms of windsurf, windfoil. I started on the Quatro 105ltr and loved it (I'm around 92Kilos).

Went with a 6.4 Slingwing v2 and Axis 1060BSC (about 1800 sqcm). Really enjoyed the set up and quickly got a smaller wing and foil for when the wind picks up.

I don't quite get the advantage to going with a much smaller board though, the 105 feels good, gives me float for when the wind dies down and doesn't feel like it restricts my movement.

Have fun, you'll find your windsurf/windfoil translates very well into winging, very addictive!

DC

If your balance is good dont worry about the volume too much. Sure you'll need some more time at the beginning, but not much much more. I learned on a 120L sup first time and switched to 85L after 3 sessions, am 95Kgs. I wouldnt recommend going volume beneath your weight from the start though, you need to be able to slog around at the start.

Regarding the boards, I hear the best things about the appletrees. If they ding the foam inside doesnt soak up water, so thats a huge pro, and they're very light.

Dont have an answer to all your other questions. Dont ride Lift, nor any alula wings.

Yeah I have a similar background....I made my own foil and boards and wingfoiled for 2 years, ended up on 5'11 by 30" sup windfoil board and a 1250 ha wing ( cross between an Armstrong and an axis HPS 880). Stoked on it, but where I sail we have pretty much constant swell, and I just couldn't depower the rig. My mate here winged for a year or so and raved about it, and I eventually got a 4m and 2.5 cabrinha mantis. So stoked, I haven't looked back. But I have wondered if I was still on a lake if the windfoiling would still be better....I reckon it is more efficient at getting up and easier to control high speed. The mantis 4m covers me from14kn to 25kn and the 2.5 anything above that. I've tried a duotone wasp 5 and an older naish, the mantis feel way more solid and powerful, but still depowers well and I like the handles.
In regards to boards, I spent one session winging on my sup (120l), then went to a 60l board, which has been good for 2 months, and is still good in really marginal winds, but I really love my OES Australia 4'6" prone board once the wind is up, or more realistically, constant. My point is, I would try and borrow a couple of bigger boards for a quick go, then get something smaller, you'll outgrow them so quickly. The reduced width makes balance a lot easier, and reduced length makes pumping easier. Though I have noticed when trying new manoeuvres the increased swing wieght actually helps to dampen the twitchiness of s small board. I think you will find that your windfoiling experience will mean you will progress super quickly. I'm two months in on a wing, I can gybe, ride swells wing down, downwind in 30 knots etc. Its the depowering that I love, I'm constantly looking to drop the wing and glide.

Don't be shy of trying something "too" small, when you get back on a board that is a bit bigger, everything is so easy. My 60l almost feels like a barge! (I'm 75kg)


I've just busted the budget on an axis set up, I can't keep up with progress making my own foils, and I'm having problems with my carbon fuse. My mast will fit an axis fuse, and my foils are easily modified to fit also. The axis gear looks great to me, and the option to swap mast lengths for $150 is valuable also. They should be here the end of the week. I'll keep you posted.

I see a lot of people trying to learn on gear that is too small and struggle with it. Everybody has their reason for why they are the exceptional... some are, and some aren't. It really comes down to whether you're willing to struggle, how much is your time worth, and what kind of secondary market you have in your area.

For fresh water lake 12-20, I would advise above neutral minimum for your first board. Trying to get going on a board that sinks in deep lulls requires technique, patience, and longer gusts. I'm 85kg, and when I ride my 75l in deep lulls like on my last trip to Southern California, I need like 3-5 seconds of gust just to get the board moving enough to get to the surface so I can start pumping... by that time the gust may have passed. If you have really gusty holey wind, volume can be a huge asset.

If you get a lot of 12mph, I'd also go bigger on the hand wing. It's much easier to get going w/ more horsepower, and you probably are going to be rather inefficient at first.

I'd pass on the SABFOIL W950... i don't think it's up to par with some of the newer wings they offer. I'd rather see you on W945 or W899 or something like that. SABFOIL kind of have more of a Ferrari ride. I like them a ton, but not everybody likes them. I'm a dealer and don't have any durability issues with them. They offer a good selection of front wings and stabilizers. I like they way they go together in that I can have separate complete gliders that just bolt onto the mast which makes assembly/disassembly/swapping easy.

If you have other people looking to get into winging, get a larger + volume board to start with and pass it on to somebody else once you're done with it. The larger boards are much easier to set up on, and you'll expend a lot of extra energy each time you fall off on a smaller board. Flatter water if you have access to that can mitigate this. Ideal is flat water and good wind.

Some people can just hop on a small board and go, but that seems not to be the norm. I tell people, outgrowing the big board is your goal. For this reason, I rent out large boards so people don't have to buy them. there are also plenty of people out there who just wing on plus volume boards and have a lot of fun.

YMMV

I just got myself a 45l board and that was super fun yesterday!

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Oahuwaterwalker said..

windwing4daWIN said..
in terms of really light conditions - below 12kts - i'm gonna speculate that the water/swell condition starts to play almost as big a role as wind strength to get up and stay on foil?

Yep! On the lightest days I head out not worried about getting on foil then turn the direction that the swell is heading and use wind and wave to get on foil. Once up, I jibe with steep swells and try not to fall. It takes a lot less wind to stay on foil than it does to get on foil.

^cool. that's what i was guessing. i was hanging on Oahu - Waialau zone - a few months ago in Oct... so cool and unique from Maui and Kauai... NS>SS... wow the south is a gongshow :o)... tried to setup a wingfoil sesh in Kailau zone but wind didn't cooperate that day... swear i saw Robby at Waimanalo just scoping the wind oneday :oP

Question for you bro - i see you are approx 75kg, quite experienced on the water and riding in HI swell - on HA725/925 i think?... i'm leaning towards an HA925 for real wind (+15knts) as well (i'll need to get up the learning curve vs the i76/1500cms low aspect/high lift windfoil i've got) but also a bigger one for more lift given i'm on a lake/no swell sometimes in 12-15knts. any thoughts here? thinking a 1550v2 or 1125 if Armstrong or the HA200 lift (seems between the 2 Armstrongs with 1290cm/94wide = 6.8aspect) board will be my at or +10 my weight.
thx again

For what its worth, my setup 3 months in (windsurf, kitesurf/foil background)

4'7" 70L starboard takeoff (i am 75kg)
armstrong ha925 and ha1125 and 1500cf
4m and 6m wing

Gets me out in any conditions. I will get a smaller wing for crazy days and an ha725

i ride the 4m and 925 down to 15kt then go to the 1125 or the 6. 1500 and 6 if its super light and i can have fun messing with tacks etc.

HA foil is easy to ride, the advice i got here which was correct was just go for it. It will take you about 3 sessions to get used to. A small board will take you about a week to be comfortable.

you will have to churn through gear early if you want to progress quickly, don't sit on gear you've outgrown or the wrong thing.

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sunsetsailboards said..
I see a lot of people trying to learn on gear that is too small and struggle with it. Everybody has their reason for why they are the exceptional... some are, and some aren't. It really comes down to whether you're willing to struggle, how much is your time worth, and what kind of secondary market you have in your area.

For fresh water lake 12-20, I would advise above neutral minimum for your first board. Trying to get going on a board that sinks in deep lulls requires technique, patience, and longer gusts. I'm 85kg, and when I ride my 75l in deep lulls like on my last trip to Southern California, I need like 3-5 seconds of gust just to get the board moving enough to get to the surface so I can start pumping... by that time the gust may have passed. If you have really gusty holey wind, volume can be a huge asset.

If you get a lot of 12mph, I'd also go bigger on the hand wing. It's much easier to get going w/ more horsepower, and you probably are going to be rather inefficient at first.

I'd pass on the SABFOIL W950... i don't think it's up to par with some of the newer wings they offer. I'd rather see you on W945 or W899 or something like that. SABFOIL kind of have more of a Ferrari ride. I like them a ton, but not everybody likes them. I'm a dealer and don't have any durability issues with them. They offer a good selection of front wings and stabilizers. I like they way they go together in that I can have separate complete gliders that just bolt onto the mast which makes assembly/disassembly/swapping easy.

If you have other people looking to get into winging, get a larger + volume board to start with and pass it on to somebody else once you're done with it. The larger boards are much easier to set up on, and you'll expend a lot of extra energy each time you fall off on a smaller board. Flatter water if you have access to that can mitigate this. Ideal is flat water and good wind.

Some people can just hop on a small board and go, but that seems not to be the norm. I tell people, outgrowing the big board is your goal. For this reason, I rent out large boards so people don't have to buy them. there are also plenty of people out there who just wing on plus volume boards and have a lot of fun.

YMMV

I just got myself a 45l board and that was super fun yesterday!

I'm defending the Sab W950 for its durability and is still very current wing, it's do it all wing. I have the some of the latest Sab wings and the 950 still has its a place in my quiver. It has excellent top speed with S425 and S399 stab plus super loose and can carve real hard too I can fly with good pumping in super light wind also in my apinion still very relevant front wing

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windwing4daWIN said..

Shlogger said..
I would offer that a two board quiver will really help you progress. I use my floater 105 liter for light days w possible Shlog home being a reality. But I also use the board to learn new transitions as I can literally stand straight up and Go. So no big deal to crash 20 times or come off foil. Then of course you'll want the smaller board for jumping and pumping and tighter turns. I would get the larger board first, get those hundreds of falls out of the way learning transitions. Plus you'll have a board to spread the love and teach people on. ;)

thx. i am leaning towards this setup as well. Thinking an Armstrong FG 5'5 88L or FG 5'2" 75L and leaning towards the bigger one to better cover the lower end/wind days and just get a smaller board for steadier/higher wind days.

i've found so many boards now it's overwhelming!!! it seems many of the closed cell foam and "full carbon" builds can be 6.5-7.5kg at 80/90L? which surprised me... i would have thought closer to 5.5... not a big deal i guess... i'm focusing on shape (min/no tail kick... concave... low to foil... NOT TO WIDE) and foil box placement (big and fwd)... not many with all those things + light + available etc... FG at top of my list, Takoon Comet SW also .... any other recommendations appreciated

Hey mate,

Prior to wing foiling, I windsurfed competitively, raced, big jumping (the Gorge for 20 years 30-40knots+) OK in waves... etc etc since I was 12yrs old (49 now) - then kited for 20 years, surf & SUP in reasonably sized surf and get out in all wind conditions - 10knots to 50knots. 85kg.

First thing - about the wing - didn't see too many mention it... but as a former windsurfer, I love the Duotone Slick with the carbon boom... so good to be able to put your hands anywhere at any time, micro-adjustments, I even used it for one handed wave-riding going down the line, or powering up sometimes in a bottom turn, windsurf style... (I do acknowledge you are on a lake however)... also love the boom for transitions and being able to grip anywhere, one handed, etc. I am sure everyone gets used to and loves whatever wing style they get good at (handles, mini booms, hybrid stiff handles, etc)... but the Slick might be one to consider?

Second thing - the board - if it's blowing hard - yeah... you can pretty much get up and going on anything (eventually with skill). When it's marginal - gusty or with big lulls... do you want to be frustrated half the time or just happy with getting up easily and foiling most of the time? Big lulls = much longer time to get going on small (sub body-weight) ltrs boards. Yes with skill you get way more efficient and can get up in lighter and lighter winds, but shifting, light, gusty or marginal conditions (which we can get a fair bit here on southerlies on the Gold Coast) - a bigger board makes for so many more fun days vs frustrating. I have 2 boards... but if I just had to have one, it would be the bigger board, ltrs higher than body weight... but make sure you go the lightest, best carbon construction possible... this makes bigger boards feel like smaller boards.

Third thing - the foils - similar to the wing, you will end up liking whatever you get used to (brand wise), and there are plenty of great companies out there - Armstrong, Axis, Lift, Sabfoil, etc etc. - however, my experience is that for maximum enjoyment, it is good to follow a healthy progression curve with your foil quiver (yes, it will become a quiver ;). My recommendation to friends getting into it is to go with a brand that provides progression in a way that thrills you at every step, doesn't break the bank at every progression, and provides good re-sale. For me that has been Axis, although I am sure other brands have good options as well.

With regard to the Lift 200 - I don't know... I suspect you would outgrow it in 2 minutes with your current abilities (I have tried my buddy's 200)... my experience of it is that it is super easy to get going, super forgiving... probably great for learning... but so slow and feels like a barge to me (NB: I am now riding the AXIS Art series 999, 899, 799... and they are ridiculously fast (I regularly dust my mate who rides lift HA170 and 120 - which are great wings, just not as fast. I did progress from the AXIS PnG 1010 and then the Surf Perf 860 and 760 - although I suspect you will be able to jump some progression because you already windfoil). I was that close to going with Armstrong 4 months ago because I liked the look, the build and everything that was being said about them... but then AXIS came out with the ART series... and I became addicted to these high performance speed machines, which keep going with amazing glide through lulls and gusty conditions, etc.

I did heaps of research online, in forums, like you... I decided initially that, being an expert windsurfer and kiter, I would progress really quickly and would be ready to take on more advanced gear from the start... hmmm... well I got lucky with a shop that supported me with strong advice about getting equipment that would help me enjoy the learning curve! I started by ordering a 5'4" 95ltr Fanatic... but it wasn't in stock, so I had to wait 4 weeks to get it, in the meantime the shop lent me a 6'7" Sky Wing - I think like 125ltr - what a great board to learn on! Although, I would never have bought one for learning because I outgrew it in 4 sessions. Sounds like you already have something to use in a similar size, which is great... and you already know how to foil, so big advantage there too... After the 5'4" 95ltr, I progressed to a 5'0" 72ltr Sunova - which was great little board... loved it... but I just didn't use it that as much as I wanted to because I like to get out all the time and we still can get a lot of marginal days, gusting from 10-18 with lulls. If the wind doesn't drop below 15-16knots in the lulls, the small board is good, and when it's 20+ solid, I love the small board, but I just had too many frustrating days when it was in-between. If I lived in Maui - I might only ride a 30-40ltr prone style sinker... but the wind there is amazing...

For our prevailing conditions here - mix of good 15-18 knot days, some 20-25knot days, but plenty of 10-15knot days... I have found myself going for the enjoyment factor of being able to get out in any condition, rather than waiting for it to be right for my smaller board... so I sold my smallest board and went back to a 5'8" 90ltr, full carbon 5.4kg board (the light weight makes it feel as small as my 5 foot board did)... and because I also SUP foil in waves, I have a 108ltr full carbon 5.8kg 6'1", which I use for the super marginal days. For me the bigger boards make it way easier to get going on the smallest foil possible, which is the piece of equipment that I like to ride most ;)

Anyway... I am sure you will walk your own path and enjoy it, whichever route you go! Happy foiling mate!

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windwing4daWIN said..

Velocicraptor said..
I had a longer response written but deleted it somehow.
I primarily ride a lot of the same gear you are looking at including the Lift HA 200, OR a series 5m, and the Appletree 90 liter (used to have the Wing Drifter too).

happy to address any specific questions on that gear but my advice is not to start with the OR 5m. It's a sick wing when it's powered but it doesn't have a lot of low end power and since you aren't getting a quiver I think you would be better suited with a gruntier wing for your conditions. Maybe the v3 slingwing, or either of the Cabrinha wings, both of which have more power than the OR.

I love the lift 200ha setup and while it's not a beginner wing, you have enough background that you should be fine. It is a very well built wing you can progress with too. I recommend the 38 tail to start but you might go 32 later. I'm reluctantly selling this exact setup (USA) lightly used if you are interested. The reason I'm selling (which could be relevant to your decisions) is that they don't currently have a good offering in the 150 size. My opinion is that the 120 is too big a jump from the 200 and I don't think my conditions would favor the 120 very often.
90 liter board is going to be small for the first several sessions, but again given your windfoil background you should be fine after that. The Wing Drifter might be a little bit wide, but I can't remember whether they are narrowing the new version. I love my appleslice 90 for a big board. Construction is very solid and it's a great design overall. Wish it didn't have the tail kick, but I can get it up in very light wind so it's not holding me back. The jazz got rid of the kick tail but it's a totally different design so I can't really comment on it.

really appreciate your thoughts VR! regarding your comments:

- on a Lift HA150 - a big PNW shop (USA) i spoke with indicated this is likely coming this season!

- do you know the weight of your appleslice 90L?

- on the Glide 5.0 low end - i've read/heard about this as well and others have commented on the higher tension/stability of this wing being a negative for pumping/low end. Really appreciate the honesty here on a potential compromise on this $2k piece of kit. My feeling here is that there are compromises with sail/wing draft stability at both ends (ie. not good running a v flat/stable wing in low wind AND not good running a very drafty/soft wing in high wind). I usually tune my gear for the day (can't get the racer out of me even rigging wave sails)... softer/stiffer mast, +/- downhaul, +/- outhaul = +/- leach twist, +/- draft depth, etc. to dial in the stability and twist of a sail/wing... now a wing seems MUCH less tunable than a sail (please correct me) but in asking OR directly - and this is just what i'm told, no direct experience - changing the PSI in both the strut and leading edge does help with tuning the stability/pumpability (ie. less PSI = less stability and better light wind pumpability) - any direct experience out there would certainly be appreciated!

i've heard the Glide will have great high end and be in the sweet spot over 15kt... i'm hoping i can tune it a bit softer for under that thou? i've thought about a punchier sail (reedin, Strike v2., takuma..) and/or slightly bigger (5.5 slick... 6.0cwc) but at the end of the day, i think that technique, foil, board and fitness will make a bigger difference on the low end (10-15knts) than a 5 vs. 6 (20% more) or draft stability of the wing. appreciate any direct experience.

There were rumors of the 150ha coming (likely stemming from Jack Ho progression project interview) but I have confirmation from Lift directly and a dealer that it is NOT coming. The only new wing they are releasing is the 90ha. They suck at answering customer questions, so I could be surprised here, but i think best case it's a 2023 release. That why I'm getting onto another setup. Someone else in this thread said the 200ha is slow and boring, but I totally disagree. I find it to be very fast and while it is a specific feel (all lift gear is back foot heavy) that setup can rip.

I think you might be overestimating the impact of psi tuning on a wing. Regardless of psi I just haven't found the OR to be very good at getting up in the low end of its range and I have decent technique (can pump my 4m mantis up in 13/14 knots. Its excellent when you are up, but it doesn't pump efficiently. I think it has more to do with the higher aspect shape than anything else and psi doesn't change that. I can get up on a Mantis 4 (not a particularly grunty wing) in the same wind I can get up on my Glide 5. I have a 7m cwc that I use up to 15/16 knots before I switch to the glide. I stand by my recommendation to look into other 5m wings if this will be your only wing.


I can weigh the board another time. It's light but not super light. I find it to be a very good balance of weight, strength and stiffness. Armstrongs are some of the lighter boards I have felt if that's a priority.

also one thing to consider with foils is how much storage you have (home and car) and how modular you want things to be. some foils are easier to take apart and assemble. I personally like designs that allow me to separate the entire glider from the mast easily. this way, in my foil quiver, I can have one mast and multiple gliders that stack in my van. SABFOIL, Axis, Slingshot Phantasm all do this. GoFoil, Armstrong, maybe some others, don't assemble like this. For some people this is not an issue.

I actually have multiple masts and multiple gliders, so I can use a glider and choose the long mast for winging, a shorter one if I'm in less water or going prone or dock starting, etc... Last thing I want to do at the beach is change wings or tails on a a fuselage... really just want to bolt on the glider and go.

The NoLimitz foil mast is not modular. All the parts are bonded, so you just buy the mast you want for your brand of foil. They are ridiculously light... i just weighed a 93cm Takuma mast and it's 2.84lbs. I'm getting my SABFOIL NoLimitz mast this week.

The Duotone Slick is one of the easiest wings to learn on. Compact wing span, easily accessible sheet in and go power, and infinite hand placement on the mini boom really make things easy.

You can contact me through my website if you want to talk about specific gear.

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windwing4daWIN said..

DrSeanR said..

windwing4daWIN said..

Shlogger said..
I would offer that a two board quiver will really help you progress. I use my floater 105 liter for light days w possible Shlog home being a reality. But I also use the board to learn new transitions as I can literally stand straight up and Go. So no big deal to crash 20 times or come off foil. Then of course you'll want the smaller board for jumping and pumping and tighter turns. I would get the larger board first, get those hundreds of falls out of the way learning transitions. Plus you'll have a board to spread the love and teach people on. ;)

thx. i am leaning towards this setup as well. Thinking an Armstrong FG 5'5 88L or FG 5'2" 75L and leaning towards the bigger one to better cover the lower end/wind days and just get a smaller board for steadier/higher wind days.

i've found so many boards now it's overwhelming!!! it seems many of the closed cell foam and "full carbon" builds can be 6.5-7.5kg at 80/90L? which surprised me... i would have thought closer to 5.5... not a big deal i guess... i'm focusing on shape (min/no tail kick... concave... low to foil... NOT TO WIDE) and foil box placement (big and fwd)... not many with all those things + light + available etc... FG at top of my list, Takoon Comet SW also .... any other recommendations appreciated

Hey mate,

Prior to wing foiling, I windsurfed competitively, raced, big jumping (the Gorge for 20 years 30-40knots+) OK in waves... etc etc since I was 12yrs old (49 now) - then kited for 20 years, surf & SUP in reasonably sized surf and get out in all wind conditions - 10knots to 50knots. 85kg.

First thing - about the wing - didn't see too many mention it... but as a former windsurfer, I love the Duotone Slick with the carbon boom... so good to be able to put your hands anywhere at any time, micro-adjustments, I even used it for one handed wave-riding going down the line, or powering up sometimes in a bottom turn, windsurf style... (I do acknowledge you are on a lake however)... also love the boom for transitions and being able to grip anywhere, one handed, etc. I am sure everyone gets used to and loves whatever wing style they get good at (handles, mini booms, hybrid stiff handles, etc)... but the Slick might be one to consider?

Second thing - the board - if it's blowing hard - yeah... you can pretty much get up and going on anything (eventually with skill). When it's marginal - gusty or with big lulls... do you want to be frustrated half the time or just happy with getting up easily and foiling most of the time? Big lulls = much longer time to get going on small (sub body-weight) ltrs boards. Yes with skill you get way more efficient and can get up in lighter and lighter winds, but shifting, light, gusty or marginal conditions (which we can get a fair bit here on southerlies on the Gold Coast) - a bigger board makes for so many more fun days vs frustrating. I have 2 boards... but if I just had to have one, it would be the bigger board, ltrs higher than body weight... but make sure you go the lightest, best carbon construction possible... this makes bigger boards feel like smaller boards.

Third thing - the foils - similar to the wing, you will end up liking whatever you get used to (brand wise), and there are plenty of great companies out there - Armstrong, Axis, Lift, Sabfoil, etc etc. - however, my experience is that for maximum enjoyment, it is good to follow a healthy progression curve with your foil quiver (yes, it will become a quiver ;). My recommendation to friends getting into it is to go with a brand that provides progression in a way that thrills you at every step, doesn't break the bank at every progression, and provides good re-sale. For me that has been Axis, although I am sure other brands have good options as well.

With regard to the Lift 200 - I don't know... I suspect you would outgrow it in 2 minutes with your current abilities (I have tried my buddy's 200)... my experience of it is that it is super easy to get going, super forgiving... probably great for learning... but so slow and feels like a barge to me (NB: I am now riding the AXIS Art series 999, 899, 799... and they are ridiculously fast (I regularly dust my mate who rides lift HA170 and 120 - which are great wings, just not as fast. I did progress from the AXIS PnG 1010 and then the Surf Perf 860 and 760 - although I suspect you will be able to jump some progression because you already windfoil). I was that close to going with Armstrong 4 months ago because I liked the look, the build and everything that was being said about them... but then AXIS came out with the ART series... and I became addicted to these high performance speed machines, which keep going with amazing glide through lulls and gusty conditions, etc.

I did heaps of research online, in forums, like you... I decided initially that, being an expert windsurfer and kiter, I would progress really quickly and would be ready to take on more advanced gear from the start... hmmm... well I got lucky with a shop that supported me with strong advice about getting equipment that would help me enjoy the learning curve! I started by ordering a 5'4" 95ltr Fanatic... but it wasn't in stock, so I had to wait 4 weeks to get it, in the meantime the shop lent me a 6'7" Sky Wing - I think like 125ltr - what a great board to learn on! Although, I would never have bought one for learning because I outgrew it in 4 sessions. Sounds like you already have something to use in a similar size, which is great... and you already know how to foil, so big advantage there too... After the 5'4" 95ltr, I progressed to a 5'0" 72ltr Sunova - which was great little board... loved it... but I just didn't use it that as much as I wanted to because I like to get out all the time and we still can get a lot of marginal days, gusting from 10-18 with lulls. If the wind doesn't drop below 15-16knots in the lulls, the small board is good, and when it's 20+ solid, I love the small board, but I just had too many frustrating days when it was in-between. If I lived in Maui - I might only ride a 30-40ltr prone style sinker... but the wind there is amazing...

For our prevailing conditions here - mix of good 15-18 knot days, some 20-25knot days, but plenty of 10-15knot days... I have found myself going for the enjoyment factor of being able to get out in any condition, rather than waiting for it to be right for my smaller board... so I sold my smallest board and went back to a 5'8" 90ltr, full carbon 5.4kg board (the light weight makes it feel as small as my 5 foot board did)... and because I also SUP foil in waves, I have a 108ltr full carbon 5.8kg 6'1", which I use for the super marginal days. For me the bigger boards make it way easier to get going on the smallest foil possible, which is the piece of equipment that I like to ride most ;)

Anyway... I am sure you will walk your own path and enjoy it, whichever route you go! Happy foiling mate!

Thx so much DrSean... any chance this is the Sean i know of the windsurfing/rowing clan from WVan? (dad: J... sister: S... bro: D?) prolly not but if so it's Simon B from Whistler buddy!

either way... really appreciate your insights on board size (agree 100% - i'm going with +10L to my weight)... what board is your 5'8"/90L?

and i'll check out the Axis foils (also agree about getting into a brand with lotsa options to keep the progression going... heard NoLimitz makes a multi-brand compatible mast that is one of the best as well... ultimately it's all in the foil anyways...) pretty sure i'll go Armstrong due to the options/tuning/flexibility...

and also hear you on the Duo slick... flexibility to grab anywhere with a positive connection to the wing... i'm thinking hard about a slick 5.5 vs. the 5.0 Aluula Glide... i know the OR will have a boom option as well that i'll try out...

cheers bro!

Hey Simon!

Long time! No way - it is the Sean you know! Ha ha!

Shoot me an email or something - drseanr72@gmail.com and we can catch up on FaceTime or zoom or something. I live in Australia now!