So I'm on vacation on the BVI and I have an opportunity to take some wing foiling lessons with my 17 year old daughter. A little background. I'm 59, with 40+ years windsurfing experience, 1 year of windfoiling (still just a novice). My daughter is a total novice.
I would appreciate any advice on what to tell my daughter. She's a great athlete, but I don't want to set her up for disappointment and/or failure.
Select to expand quoteFoulweatherjack said..
So I'm on vacation on the BVI and I have an opportunity to take some wing foiling lessons with my 17 year old daughter. A little background. I'm 59, with 40+ years windsurfing experience, 1 year of windfoiling (still just a novice). My daughter is a total novice.
I would appreciate any advice on what to tell my daughter. She's a great athlete, but I don't want to set her up for disappointment and/or failure.
Have her throw a small sail around on land and get comfortable with it. Make sure she understands powering and depowering at various angles and directions. First goal is just to get over any intimidation of the sail, and have her understand that she isn't going to get into trouble. Then add a high volume board without a foil (ideally a SUP with a keel of some sort), and progress to the foil. Ideally she can learn the foil behind a boat or with an efoil prior to incorporating the sail. A total novice will probably wont be on a foil board for 4-5 sessions I would guess and probably another couple sessions before shes up on foil. This timing is a guess though, since most people (including me) that I know have come to winging with some applicable experience that has resulted in faster progression (starting with a foil board and foiling within 2-3 sessions).
As far as disappointment / failure, I don't know what to tell you. She's got to like it and see the light at the end of the tunnel in order to get stoked enough to push through the learning curve. My wife enjoys just riding the sup with the sail (hasn't even attempted the foil and might not ever), so she just needs to find enjoyment in wherever she is on the learning curve -- and find enjoyment in the learning curve itself. Planing a SUP board with some power in the sail is a pretty cool rush for someone who hasn't ever felt it!
Maybe have her listen to the Gwen and Damo podcasts (I think they might be on YouTube too). They are all about making the sport less intimidating and getting people excited about the learning process of winging.
Good advice above to let her get the feel of the wing on dry land. There are tons of YT videos for beginners so she will benefit by watching a few.
Not wild about putting a novice winger on a skateboard. Just too many leg injuries.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Not wild about putting a novice winger on a skateboard. Just too many leg injuries.
Have you actually done it or are you talking from your usual place of complete ignorance?
As usual, your experience is practically ZERO compared to mine.
I started sail skateboarding in 1983. Since I started shortboard windsurfing in Sept that year, I wanted to practice from Nov to windy season in April.
Two fellow windskaters broke their ankles that winter. I can name them if you need.
Following summer, the HMBay crew augmented thir spring surf sailing with windsurfing. 1 sprained ankle and one broken collarbone amidst 3 dudes at perfectly paved Half Moon Bay parking lot. Yes, even the famous surfer there stopped windsurfing.
Summer '84 was also the last year that the windsurf shop existed at Pedro Pt. I finally got a chance to talk to the owner, AW, then. Mainly talking spots he cautioned me off windskate. Talking long boards with huge urethane wheels on wide tracks.
Winter 2019, a very good wing and ex Formula sailor broke her forearm at Black Rock event. Mountain board and 2.5 F1 wing in 3-12 mph breeze.
In between those years, more than 30 people have gotten hurt locally. Can we assume a few more nationally? What about worldwide?
And yes, OF COURSE I know more than you. I worked at the biggest windsurf shop in California for 20 years, and attended more than 30 AWIA product shows.
You think they didn't introduce all manner of sail powered craft?
And it still is not pushed by anyone with any experience. ONLY WIDE EYED NEWBIES would promote windskate to anyone.
Grantmac...I know you are trying to help the wind power community, but don't, for 1 second, think you have real experience.
Even currently, guys..superior athletes like Johnny Heiniken and Sunset Sailboards ONLY wing skate at low tide Ocean Beach SF.
JR, who does wingskate at Crissy, has hurt himself a handful of times. I talked to him last summer.
Oh..the F4 wing team does NOT endorse wing skating on land. Their 17 year old rider twisted his ankle last fall, and his Dad already knew better.
..and...practicing with the wing on land is an excellent idea, as long as she is on her feet. Even up to 25 mph wind, it is relatively safe once you teach her to let go the backhand, and let go both, before she falls.
I would follow all the advice above except the skateboard but emphasise after the wing on land, sup in water with no foil - I'd get her behind a boat to foil. THEN. Back on the water with a board and foil. Not totally necessary but it will Drastically speed up the learning curve on foiling and hence may keep her engaged.
those that learn to foil and use and wing at the same time (seen it done many times) works, but they were all experienced watermen and accepted the punishment, disappointment and walks of shame.
also once on water - if possible - makeher do king downwinders with a support boat, jet ski if possible. That to will drastically increase the leaning time again. Less time paddling in and walking back with a huge. Board.
ps my son was 13 when I taught him although he had kited since 8 and learnt to kite foil at 11. So I just gave him a board / foil and wing and dropped him 10km up the coast and left him to work it out 
he did and now he teaches me. 
Ignorance like usual I see, or possibly dementia?
Windskating is sketchy as hell, good thing this is the WING forum.
Grantmac is just giving bad advice.
Wing...sail..kite...on a skateboard is a bad idea inviting injuries to ankle, knee, shoulder, and collarbone.
The Black Rock injury was to an experienced Formula sailor with one full season of wingsurfing.
OK, not every wind/wind/kite skateboarder gets hurt. Maybe 8 out of 10 survive and learn never to do it again. Species survival teaches something.
I've done dozens of days wind and kite skateboarding, and watched dozens of friends getting hurt, driving more than a handful to e rooms.
I've skateboarded all 7 of the big hills in San Francisco, not with tic tack trick boards, but full on state of the art downhill boards with wide trucks and big urethane wheels.
ONE thing I learned...don't kite or sail skateboard, and that applies to wing.
I also learned, through experience, not conjecture, don't ride motorcycles on the street or race 200+ motocross races and 9 motorcycle road races...if you want to stay healthy.
I got a flat front tire on Ron Grant's Factory Suzuki 500 at Talledega Speedways banking, 6th gear 10,400 rpm......I advise...don't warm up tires for Factory Suzuki!
You might do stupid things a few times, but smart people learn to back off, and advise other's not to follow the same dumb path.
Unless your life is really based on conjecture, hopeful thinking, and dreams with NO real world experience.
I appreciate all the advice. A wing and a foil for a total novice might be a recipe for at best unhappiness and worst injury. Maybe I'll just start her on a windsurfer. There's a Starboard Go and a 4.3 m sail on the beach here. I can do some land training and just follow her on an SUP.
I appreciate all the advice. A wing and a foil for a total novice might be a recipe for at best unhappiness and worst injury. Maybe I'll just start her on a windsurfer. There's a Starboard Go and a 4.3 m sail on the beach here. I can do some land training and just follow her on an SUP.
Select to expand quoteFoulweatherjack said..
I appreciate all the advice. A wing and a foil for a total novice might be a recipe for at best unhappiness and worst injury. Maybe I'll just start her on a windsurfer. There's a Starboard Go and a 4.3 m sail on the beach here. I can do some land training and just follow her on an SUP.
Better yet, use the windsurfer board (if its a big one), with the wing (no windsurf sail).
If she can wing SUP, she can wingfoil.
My then 50 year old g/f wingSUP'ed for 10 days, then jumped onto a wingboard and foiled upwind on 1st, and every run after.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
I would follow all the advice above except the skateboard but emphasise after the wing on land, sup in water with no foil - I'd get her behind a boat to foil. THEN. Back on the water with a board and foil. Not totally necessary but it will Drastically speed up the learning curve on foiling and hence may keep her engaged.
those that learn to foil and use and wing at the same time (seen it done many times) works, but they were all experienced watermen and accepted the punishment, disappointment and walks of shame.
also once on water - if possible - makeher do king downwinders with a support boat, jet ski if possible. That to will drastically increase the leaning time again. Less time paddling in and walking back with a huge. Board.
ps my son was 13 when I taught him although he had kited since 8 and learnt to kite foil at 11. So I just gave him a board / foil and wing and dropped him 10km up the coast and left him to work it out he did and now he teaches me.
I second what Eppo says - Get her behind a boat to learn the foil - Foiling behind a boat with an experienced driver is the fastest way to learn the most difficult part of the sport.
Also agree with learning a bit of wing stuff on land and possibly wing on a SUP or wing on a windsurf board.
My daughter started foiling behind the boat at 11 years old. Nice and gentle speed... on a stable foil... just takes her time and enjoys the learning process
I teach wingfoiling at our local school, its easier than windsurfing to learn for sure, but definately get her out on a big board with a daggerboard first.
Key tip for a beginner is to get the wing over their heads instead of in front of them. And always keep the inflated side pointing up. Never let it go beneath diagonally upwards (like 45? up from straight at least, if that makes sense?) That will save a lot of headache / wingtips catching the water.
