I am curious to know what front foil sizes people are riding in high-wind. Specifically, I am interested in surface area, aspect ratio, wingspan and rider weight.
Right now my smallest is only 1150cm2 9.6 AR, 105cm span wing and I weigh about 87kg. It's a Gong Veloce XL-H. I have had it out in comfortable 4.5 conditions, and am convinced it's worthwhile to go a size or two smaller. I am just curious how small people are comfortably going given their weight. I am interested in glide and top speed and still getting my head around small high-aspect front wing sizes as someone who was riding a 1750cm? wing as his small wing until about a year ago lol. Thanks!
Strong wind above 20kt is quite rare at my location.
My smallest wing is North HA850 (AR 10) and Code Foils 850S (AR 9.5). 850S (Code) can be used in 10-12kt and has a very low stall speed but HA850 (North) needs more than 15kt and has a lot higher stall speed (and higher top end). But overall Code 850S is a better foil it has more glide, better low end and efficiency. Maybe because of the thinner mast and integrated front wing and fuselage has lower drag.
So foil size and AR of different foil cannot be directly compared.
The largest front wing I still use regularly is North SF1080 this is my light wind foil at the moment but sometimes North HA1050 works better (despite getting up a bit harder) as it is more efficient through lulls. So I ordered Code 860R (AR 13) hopefully this one will be my ultimate lightwind foil.
My weight is 74-75kg dry. A few years back I learned on 1600-2000cm2 big fat type of foil. So don't be scared by the size of foil. The new foils improve so much and cannot be compared to the size of the old foil.
75kg my every day foil is 850cm2, 93cm span, 10.1AR. I use it with a 10.5" tail most of the time (I think 10.5" is the span).
If the wind is strong and the waves are *big* I switch to a 14.5" tail to slow it down and keep things under control. The 14.5" tail was my every day tail until I got the 10.5". If I had to use one foil/tail then the 850/10.5" pair would be it.
If the wind is strong but the waves are small I have been experimenting with a 650cm2, 69cm span, 7.4AR, so far using the 10.5" tail. It takes a fair amount of wind to get the speed to get going. The one time I used it in proper waves it was way too fast. Crashes were frequent. It is loads of fun ripping around in flat water and small chop.
I have 190 hours on the 850cm wing and it's almost perfect. I would have said it's more set up for long glides on waves up to quite large. Not so good for carving and slashing. Lately I've been turning onto my forehand and cutting back into the waves instead of gliding forward to a new section or winging away. I find that on my forehand I can carve around a bit more aggressively than I thought I could so the learning process continues. The manufacturer recommends a much lower aspect wing for carving.
Code 720s @100kg plus. A bigger tail helps turning in waves 175ar is awesome. For speed and dw I use 150ar.
85-90kg rider with all my gear on.
30-40 knots I can still have fun on:
Cloud IX fs850cm2 foil. 8.7 AR. 86cm span. I use my smallest/fastest tail. Catalyst, 157 size.
2.5m wing at these speeds.
When I hit 35-55 knots though, I really prefer:
Cloud IX fs700cm2 foil. 8.6 AR. 77cm span. Same tail.
2m wing at these speeds.
It's a tough balance, as you get higher wind you need/want smaller wings in your hand, but they are harder to get smaller foils up in the air. At these extreme speeds though, if I ride a bigger foil it's a disaster, the drag that is apparent from the larger foils makes the load transfer through the wing into my body unbearable.
For what it's worth. At the start of the season I was riding a takuma 1500 as my big foil and a takuma 1210 as my small foil. I progressed a lot. My last session a few weeks ago I rode my 700 in 14 knot averages with my 4.2m wing. I'd argue that the bigger foils are still worthy to keep around for lazy lightwind days. You need the smaller foils for extreme winds, but you can also get your skills to the point that they are fun in light winds.
95/97kg +wetsuit etcMy Cabrinha H800 (800cm2x90cm span is my highwind foil. My H1000(x90span) the daily driver.Only in very lightwind days I use a 1200, think gusts of 10x13knots
Any tips on getting up on smaller foils in light winds? Sometimes I feel close but not quite enough pull in wing to build enough speed.
Select to expand quotepatronus said..
Any tips on getting up on smaller foils in light winds? Sometimes I feel close but not quite enough pull in wing to build enough speed.
Long and narrow board help the most.
Since I get the DW board. I can ride some of my foil that usually I won't use in light wind. Now the limit is the foil itself.
Select to expand quotepatronus said..
Any tips on getting up on smaller foils in light winds? Sometimes I feel close but not quite enough pull in wing to build enough speed.Select to expand quoteTaeyeony said..
Long and narrow board help the most.
Since I get the DW board. I can ride some of my foil that usually I won't use in light wind. Now the limit is the foil itself.
+1 to Taeyeony's comment.
Something I learned from doing DW sup was to try and keep the board in the water a bit longer than you might try with a bigger foil. The narrow boards generate a ton of speed and I've been able to tap into foils all the way down to 550 using the new faster board shapes. In light winds, I think the board shape plus really good takeoff skills is critical (correct angle, pumping at the right time, grunty smaller wings).
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..patronus said..
Any tips on getting up on smaller foils in light winds? Sometimes I feel close but not quite enough pull in wing to build enough speed.Taeyeony said..
Long and narrow board help the most.
Since I get the DW board. I can ride some of my foil that usually I won't use in light wind. Now the limit is the foil itself.
+1 to Taeyeony's comment.
Something I learned from doing DW sup was to try and keep the board in the water a bit longer than you might try with a bigger foil. The narrow boards generate a ton of speed and I've been able to tap into foils all the way down to 550 using the new faster board shapes. In light winds, I think the board shape plus really good takeoff skills is critical (correct angle, pumping at the right time, grunty smaller wings).
I agree with both of you. While still riding relatively big foils, with my downwind board I find myself dropping down to my smaller foil, far earlier than with my short board. I have come to prefer the DW board and small foil over the smaller board and big foil with conditions being the same.
Two favorites in good breeze:
Duotone Aero Glide 725cm (AR ~9.5)
AFS Silk 850cm (AR 8)
I also use the Duotone Aero Free 1000 quite a bit even when it's windy (AR ~7) has more low end and pretty good high end as well. I'm about 190lbs.
underpowered with smaller foils you have to be patient... it's much harder to be physical with them to get them to fly, takes more finesse, more speed, and more patience... half of the battle is realizing when it's time to go and when it's time to rest and wait.
Of course with a stretched board (DW or mid-length) you can use the smaller foils in less wind with less effort, but sometimes all the above technique things still apply.
Im recently on the AFS Silk 850 as my high wind foil, but haven't really tested the top end limits of it yet. So far, it seems to have a very good range though and it holds composure very well at speed. Previously my high wind foils were the H800 and the Progression 125. Basically finding that mid/high aspect around 800 works pretty well for the high end conditions I get (into the 30s). I could have used smaller foils in situations, but those situations are rare enough (and the ~800 foils work well enough) that I haven't invested in anything smaller.
armstrong MA1000 front foil
Span: 850cm
Area: 1000cm2
Aspect Ratio: 7.23
my weight 82kg
wind 20-30kns in a confused ocean with wind waves
smik 3.5m2 wing
stabiliser 180 with blue shim
935cm mast
Anything stronger than a constant 28knots I would need to go down a size but I dont have that, and its only a few times a year.
At 70kg, I throw on the Axis ART799 when the breeze starts to consistently go above 18kts.
Span: 799mm
Area: 730cm2
AR: 9.05
While it handles higher speeds better, the smaller foil can outrun small waves and has less glide which is a factor in tacks and jibes.
105-110 kg - Mikes Lab 540 (540 cm2 / 74 cm wing span). Use this foil with a 6.5m and smaller wings.
Code 720s & Cabrinha H700 windy days but the Code 980s just loves being over powered , the thing just rips.
Select to expand quoteCnski said..
105-110 kg - Mikes Lab 540 (540 cm2 / 74 cm wing span). Use this foil with a 6.5m and smaller wings.
Wow Cnski that is bonkers. Are you a Bay Area racer? Are others on like 5.0 wings with medium-sized foils when you are out on this setup? I am just trying.tongwt a sense of what winds you would ride this in, it reminds of what the windfoil racers ride where I live, big sails and relatively tiny foils.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
I am curious to know what front foil sizes people are riding in high-wind. Specifically, I am interested in surface area, aspect ratio, wingspan and rider weight.
Right now my smallest is only 1150cm2 9.6 AR, 105cm span wing and I weigh about 87kg. It's a Gong Veloce XL-H. I have had it out in comfortable 4.5 conditions, and am convinced it's worthwhile to go a size or two smaller. I am just curious how small people are comfortably going given their weight. I am interested in glide and top speed and still getting my head around small high-aspect front wing sizes as someone who was riding a 1750cm? wing as his small wing until about a year ago lol. Thanks!
I wouldn't place too much emphasis on surface area. Front wings like the SABFoil Razor and Gong Curve H have profiles that generate lots of lift and low stall speed in sizes of 600 - 800 cm2 at the expense of top end speed. I'm 82 kg and find the Gong Curve H S (700cm2 AR 8.2) easier to get going than the Gong Ypra S L (1000 cm2 AR 8.2) . So surface area alone is a meaningless comparison any more between foils.
I pick the hand wing based on the wind strength but the foil based on the water state. It it's 15 - 20 knots and flat/clean waves I might go for something fast like the Gong Ypra S. But in high winds the water state can be pretty bad (short period, confused chop) making it difficult to build speed for take off or keep up enough speed through a gybe. In those conditions, I'd go for something more forgiving like the Gong Curve H as reaching higher speeds would be difficult anyway.
Thanks Simon, this is relevant to me as I am in the Gong ecosystem. I have the Veloce XLH @ 1150cm? and think that going to an L (H or not) sized wing from one line or another wouldn't be a significant drop, but see the sizes of some Ms and they seem tiny, but sound like they could be fine given what others here are posting.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
Thanks Simon, this is relevant to me as I am in the Gong ecosystem. I have the Veloce XLH @ 1150cm? and think that going to an L (H or not) sized wing from one line or another wouldn't be a significant, but see the sizes of some Ms and they seem tiny, but sound like they could be fine given what others here are posting.
I'd try contacting Gong support - they are good at providing advice on setups. I wanted a couple of front wings to match what I had been using with SABFoil. The front wings and stabs they recommended were exactly what I needed.
Select to expand quotesimonp65 said..Windbot said..
Thanks Simon, this is relevant to me as I am in the Gong ecosystem. I have the Veloce XLH @ 1150cm? and think that going to an L (H or not) sized wing from one line or another wouldn't be a significant, but see the sizes of some Ms and they seem tiny, but sound like they could be fine given what others here are posting.
I'd try contacting Gong support - they are good at providing advice on setups. I wanted a couple of front wings to match what I had been using with SABFoil. The front wings and stabs they recommended were exactly what I needed.
great advice thanks!
