Stick with naish or switch brands

Been on naish foils since the start and currently running 1240 ha on the 85cm 100% Carbon mast (old fitting). I am currently deciding if I invest in a couple more nasih foils (looking at the new ma shapes) or switch up brands completely.

Can any body comment who has moved away from Naish what made other brands better or worse. Armstrong and axis being the obvious ones, with a good secondhand market in nz.

I really like my 1240 ha with good glide and half decent speed, but hard to know if I am missing out on something that might be easier to use with equal or better performance.

Thanks in advance.

I switched from Naish 1400HA/carbon mast etc to Armstrong CF1600V2 and i haven't looked back.

Wing and board remain Naish.

The difference in glide/turning/stall speed was very noticeable.

I started on Naish-switched to Armstrong. Huge difference. Naish boards are well-made but the foils and wings are underwhelming. I've had the opportunity to demo a lot of FOne gear as well. Armstrong or FOne.

I have been riding Naish for around 18 months with guys riding F-One and Armstrong. Not too long ago, I rode the F-One and Armstrong back to back and found each brand has its own nuances. ( Armstrong 925 and F-One Eagle 1090 and Sevens Seas 1200.)
It didn't make me an instantly better foiler, but I could draw comparisons between the 3 brands and squashed my FOMO feeling.

The 925 felt very similar to my Naish 914 and the Eagle like my 1040.

I've yet to ride the Mach 1 or the MA's ( but heard good reports ), but I think Naish have the full range covered for the average rider.

I also started out on Naish foils and the 1240 was the foil I used most but have since switched to Sabfoil which I'm very impressed with. Think a lot has to do with the type of conditions you generally ride in as to whether you want to go HA or MA. My go to foil being the Balz799P which is an MA foil and the most versatile shape that I've ridden to date, does just about everything really well. Naish had some issues in the early days which really pissed me off but they seem to be on top of that now with the new S27 masts/fuses. For me it boiled down to price and quality. Where I live Armstrong and Axis are really expensive whereas Sabfoil is a lot cheaper and they have a vast range of wings available. Think whatever you decide to ride you won't go wrong.

If you are now riding an HA the MA will probably be very disappointing.
I tried them and they turn relative tight, but have very little glide, lots of lift, low speed and remind me mostly to the 1st gen Go-foils as the Maliko and IWA.
Compared to other foils I tried ( owned a lot of SAB foils, have a Kujira120 and the Cab Hseries 1200-1000-800 and i,m 95kg).
I think it is a good foil to learn on and the progress quickly to a faster, more performing foil foil..

I've also ridden a lot of brands. I think it s a pretty level playing field. Each brand has their nuances.
The 1240HA is a great light wind do it all foil. You can go through all the top brands and find that platform somewhere in their lineup.
I'd offer that you should try the 1040HA or Mach 1 foils before you switch.
The real question is where you wing mostly and what do you want to do?
Axis and SAB are leading the pump and glide market for now.
Other brands have more dedicated speed and racing wings.
There's some smaller brands that have dedicated surf foils.
For instance, I love the new North Mode in the Bay, but much prefer the Naish Matador LT in the waves. Very different animals.
Love the Axis Art for glide, but turning has resulted in everyone modifying the stabs and fuse to make it happen.
Then there's the plethora of foils that would be better for you if you want to nail moves and tricks.
Good Hunting !!!

I started on Naish 110l and 2000 foil. Deck collapsed and Naish UK took months to agree warranty replacement (shop had 2 other similar fails) so to carry on foiling bought a Fanatic board (that cracked after 2 months and replacement provided within 2 weeks.) Mast corroded, Naish agreed warranty, said carry on using, but again took months to replace and in meantime mast fell apart, luckily on beach. That was second year running Naish at end of season offered to replace all ally masts, don't they learn? There were four Naish users on local beach who had 7 mast breakages. Three have moved away from Naish, except for wings. Would add that I previously mentioned frustration on this forum and Aus distributer intervened. He was helpful and proactive so if in Aus maybe have stayed with Naish.
Frustrated at breaking equipment, slow warranty from Naish UK, second year of failing masts damaging confidence in Naish, moved to Armstrong foils and boards which is good quality so far but pricey, All brands have their problems, including Armstrong and Axis which you mention but they handle problems well.

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Fitzsup said..

patronus said..
I started on Naish 110l and 2000 foil. Deck collapsed and Naish UK took months to agree warranty replacement (shop had 2 other similar fails) so to carry on foiling bought a Fanatic board (that cracked after 2 months and replacement provided within 2 weeks.) Mast corroded, Naish agreed warranty, said carry on using, but again took months to replace and in meantime mast fell apart, luckily on beach. That was second year running Naish at end of season offered to replace all ally masts, don't they learn? There were four Naish users on local beach who had 7 mast breakages. Three have moved away from Naish, except for wings. Would add that I previously mentioned frustration on this forum and Aus distributer intervened. He was helpful and proactive so if in Aus maybe have stayed with Naish.
Frustrated at breaking equipment, slow warranty from Naish UK, second year of failing masts damaging confidence in Naish, moved to Armstrong foils and boards which is good quality so far but pricey, All brands have their problems, including Armstrong and Axis which you mention but they handle problems well.

I had a fuselage break and was replaced by Ocean Addicts under warranty within days,so I-have nothing but good comments for Naish.I ride Naish boards and foils,even hitting the board with a boom, still no damage.

2 years Naish Hover Carbon. No issues! New S27 mast although S26 had no issues. Good warranty and service Naish Germany/ Europe (Naish UK Brexit issues?).
I ride both, Armstrong and Naish, good stuff

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flatchat said..
I learnt and progressed mostly on the Naish HA's; 1400 and 1040. I switched to Axis about 3 mths ago mostly because Axis had a few more options to try. Being able to easily demo foils here in Perth was a real bonus to switch brands. In terms of build quality I didn't really feel any difference between the Naish S26 series and the Axis black range, both of which are similarly priced. In terms of rideability I found the S26 1400 and 1040ha very similarly matched to the HPS980 and 830 (with Advance ultra short fuse). If this is where you are going with the Axis then I would say stick with the Naish as you wont see a big difference. However the Axis Art is a completely different ride and well worth changing over to if this is where you are heading. A lot of riders still prefer the HPS over the ART and it really depends on your preferred style/location. The other bonus with Axis is the great second hand market.

Could you describe the difference with the Axis Art range? I currently ride the Naish HA and MA range (and am happy) but intrigued when you say it is different and that the HPS range is similar to the Naish?

I started with Naish 3 years ago now having the Mach1 1100, 1000MA and the 914 but also got into the Axis ART Hype (799, 899 and 1099). I love all of these foils and all of them having advantages and some disadvantages compared to each other.
Also regarding the system there pros and cons (using Alu with both brands): Naish had some mast/fuselages issues in the past but with the present system a firm connection (better than Axis- i have to use Alu tape because of tolerances). Also i prefer the steel thread inserts in the Naish. Front Wing connection is more firm on Axis, but you need 2 different tools and sometimes different screw lengths to change ...... cumbersome. Naish Alu mast far lighter and still reasonable stiff for my 90 kg.

By the way , I have tested all major brands and you find "hairs in the soup" everywhere

Long story short: In my opinion you will be happy with Naish or Axis

Thanks to all the opinions.
So naish fans. What should my next foil be? I'm 75kg riding from 12 upto 20 knots (then I windsurf) using 4.r and 6m wings. Lake foiling but we get nice wind swell due to the shape of the lake. As above currently on the 1240 ha. Just wondering if anything would extend my range?

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Qtwind said..
Thanks to all the opinions.
So naish fans. What should my next foil be? I'm 75kg riding from 12 upto 20 knots (then I windsurf) using 4.r and 6m wings. Lake foiling but we get nice wind swell due to the shape of the lake. As above currently on the 1240 ha. Just wondering if anything would extend my range?

I (87kg) was riding the 1240HA for one year then switched to the MA1000:
The MA 1000 has the same low end but more control at higher speed and/or turbulent waters. Much better at jibes and throwing turns at any speed with any radius. Less Glide. As i don't care so much about glide the MA1000 is much more fun for me.
Also got the Mach1 1100 now and have already about 10 sessions on it but only in flat water so far. Similar low end, superb for long carves as it has unexpected glide (compareable to my Axis ART 1099 and 899). Not sure about the advertised speed potential yet, as could i not really push it so far. Probably my favourite foil now for lighter winds (and works also fine in 35 knts+......but then i am on other toys) .............but not as playful like the MA1000.

The 914 is a great wing but more flat water oriented. Put it in good size swells with rapid changes of direction and it falls short, likes a more drawn out gliding turn rather than snappy changes of direction. The Mach 1 900 is very similar in shape, but with the very thin tips of the 914 cut off. Both are heavy wings, solid carbon.
I'm sure cutting the tips off the 914 would bring it's liveliness closer to that of the Mach 1 900.

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airsail said..
The 914 is a great wing but more flat water oriented. Put it in good size swells with rapid changes of direction and it falls short, likes a more drawn out gliding turn rather than snappy changes of direction. The Mach 1 900 is very similar in shape, but with the very thin tips of the 914 cut off. Both are heavy wings, solid carbon.
I'm sure cutting the tips off the 914 would bring it's liveliness closer to that of the Mach 1 900.

Interesting. Did you have the stiff C100 mast? I think a flexi mast is a real problem if seeking snappy response to roll changes. Also what length fuselage with the 914?

If you cut the thin tips off the 914, then I guess you'd gain roll agility, but lose low speed lift and ventilate the tips easier and lose pitch stability - because the washed out/up tips help pull the foil out of high speed dives.

I used the 914 mostly with the short fuselage (56cm I think) and the carve turn radius felt pretty tight to me. In my experiments, small change in fuselage length has a big effect on the turn radius. That was keeping the position of mast to main foil the same. Shorter (stab in) is always better in slow surf waves. Even in flat water, I never liked the rear position on the longer 64cm fuse because the turns were too wide, like a long wheelbase bike. With the 914, I mostly used a cut-down 280HA rear foil. I guess it'd be a 250 "MA" and that noticeably helped roll agility and was very pitch stable and relaxing at higher speeds. But clipping the tips of the stab foil lost me a lot of yaw stability which created serious ventilation issues with the C100 mast. I tried a lot of things (various sanding and also adding to the leading edge to sharpen the entry), to solve the C100 ventilation issues, but did not succeed.

I did an interesting experiment with the 914 by adding about 3mm to the leading edge to sharpen the entry. Fairing the section shape what I thought looked nice, and final finish with durapox paint with my usual 1000 grit finish. Hoping for higher top speeds, since it used to hit 27.0 kts so many times like hard barrier. The result surprised me big time. My 914 became much slower. I'd guess 3 or 4 kts slower (heaps). I guess that I positioned my new/shaper LE a little too high and destroyed the original pressure gradient over the whole foil. But I'll never know now, since I sanded that addon off, to restore original shape, and the original speed came straight back. Showed me how subtle the foil section designs are.

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Emmett said..

airsail said..
The 914 is a great wing but more flat water oriented. Put it in good size swells with rapid changes of direction and it falls short, likes a more drawn out gliding turn rather than snappy changes of direction. The Mach 1 900 is very similar in shape, but with the very thin tips of the 914 cut off. Both are heavy wings, solid carbon.
I'm sure cutting the tips off the 914 would bring it's liveliness closer to that of the Mach 1 900.

Interesting. Did you have the stiff C100 mast? I think a flexi mast is a real problem if seeking snappy response to roll changes. Also what length fuselage with the 914?

If you cut the thin tips off the 914, then I guess you'd gain roll agility, but lose low speed lift and ventilate the tips easier and lose pitch stability - because the washed out/up tips help pull the foil out of high speed dives.

I used the 914 mostly with the short fuselage (56cm I think) and the carve turn radius felt pretty tight to me. In my experiments, small change in fuselage length has a big effect on the turn radius. That was keeping the position of mast to main foil the same. Shorter (stab in) is always better in slow surf waves. Even in flat water, I never liked the rear position on the longer 64cm fuse because the turns were too wide, like a long wheelbase bike. With the 914, I mostly used a cut-down 280HA rear foil. I guess it'd be a 250 "MA" and that noticeably helped roll agility and was very pitch stable and relaxing at higher speeds. But clipping the tips of the stab foil lost me a lot of yaw stability which created serious ventilation issues with the C100 mast. I tried a lot of things (various sanding and also adding to the leading edge to sharpen the entry), to solve the C100 ventilation issues, but did not succeed.

I did an interesting experiment with the 914 by adding about 3mm to the leading edge to sharpen the entry. Fairing the section shape what I thought looked nice, and final finish with durapox paint with my usual 1000 grit finish. Hoping for higher top speeds, since it used to hit 27.0 kts so many times like hard barrier. The result surprised me big time. My 914 became much slower. I'd guess 3 or 4 kts slower (heaps). I guess that I positioned my new/shaper LE a little too high and destroyed the original pressure gradient over the whole foil. But I'll never know now, since I sanded that addon off, to restore original shape, and the original speed came straight back. Showed me how subtle the foil section designs are.

Hi Emmett, Have you tried the 220HA Stabiliser? It's effect on glide, pitch and yaw, compared to the 280HA. I think the 220 retains the winglets which I presume reduce yaw, but do decrease mast cavitation.

Thanks.