Hi,
I wanted to start Wingfoiling on my lake in light and gusty winds. So winds in about 5 to max 15kn, if it's more wind I will go windsurfing.
I mainly want to do this in winter, so the water temperature is around 4 ?C (it's a deep cold lake). As in these light winds or because of the shape of the lake it's likely that the wind drops completely.
As a wing, I will choose the Slingwing v2 in 6.4
so now it's the board and foil.
I wanted to use the new Starboard wing board in 6'7 and Lite Tech version (carbon is too much) together with the Starbaord S-Type foil 2400
My local dealer now said, the volume of the board is great and is what you need for my 70kg in such conditions, however, the board is too long. all companies going to create smaller boards. that's why he would recommend me the Fanatic Sky Wing 5'8. same volume but shorter.
Based on reviews I have seen in german said that the starboard has a better lift than other boards of the same size. Also, the Starboard has the foil mount a little more forward. The fanatic one looks more back. I tested a windsurf foil from Slingshot and Starboard last year for around 30 min without any foil experience, and as far as I remember I felt better with the Starboard foil and I think it was also more forward then the slingshot.
The second thing is the foil.
I wanted to select a matching foil, so I choose the new Starboard S-Type foils which they say is made for light wind winging. In size 2400 with 82cm aluminum mast.
Again my dealer said he didn't know the Starbaord foil but he uses the same wing and a 5'8 custom board with a Moses Onal 1100 foil. Not on my lake but on a similar lake close by. He said he doubts the Starboard will be too slow. He said he get foiling with this combo in 10 to 12kn. and as the Moses can, get fast, easy lift up and control he would recommend me that for a carbon one.
What I read in german reviews is that Starboard aluminum foil is nearly as stiff as carbon foil just a little heavier and a little slower top speed.
As I wanted to wing foil (wing foil only, we don't have waves for sup foil on the lake :D ) in hopefully even lighter wind (though about 7 8kn)
I think that speed is not the point. Instead to increase time on the water in winter times, easy lift up, and stay up in light wind is most needed. In case I wanted to do wing foiling in stronger winds starting from 14kn on, I thought I still can buy additional smaller front wings for the foil.
What would you recommend and why?
thanks a lot.
As someone who does both I would suggest windfoiling for the light wind with big gear and winging for higher wind. Wings are super inefficient in lightwind and the big ones are more awkward on the water than big windsurf sails. It's a different story in medium to high winds.
interesting, as all I heard so far is that wings perform very well also in light winds. :/lots of people who Wingfoil say that in the beginning, they need around 12kn, but after they know how to pump they get flying in 8kn or even 6kn wind. :/ The reason why I wanted to Wingfoil in lighter winds is that it should be easier and less exhausting. As I wanted to do it mainly in winter times, when strong winds make it even colder, I wanted to go out in the light wind. So I can sail with gloves (Windsurfing with gloves is a pain for me, so either my fingers get frozen or I'm exhausted after 2 to 4 runs) and can enjoy it for at least an hour or so.
In those conditions I would windfoil. You will need gloves for either and the wing takes a lot of arm strength, especially in the beginning.
I use gloves 4 months of the year here, the only ones that work are curved mitts. Everything else will tire my hands in 30 minutes.
WST,
I have heard that 6-8knot claim too, but have yet to see it in person. I know better than to be fooled by Instagram edits that are staged to look super light. The day I get passed by a full-sized adult male wingfoiler who gets going in 6-8 knots and sails comfortably is the day I pack in my sails for good. I hope it happens, but am not holding my breath. For now all I see and experience is a downwind waste of time in these winds. Maybe it's just that the wingers where I live rig for higher winds and aren't great in light winds yet (like me), but it's always Moth sailors in about 7 knots the ram air foil kiters at 8 or 9 knots, the windfoilers at 12 knots and the wingers at 15 knots before they can get going recently on foil. YMMV.??
+1 for windfoil in lighter conditions.
Slogging home in 2 mph breeze is a reality with windfoils above 100 liters for you.
Paddling home in sub 5 a necessity windfoiling with a 120 wing board.
In cold, slogging home when the breeze drops to near zero is much preferred over paddling home in 2-7 mph breeze.
Steady 8, no problem.
yes I know I need gloves, but as I don't have to make pressure on a boom, I expect it should be easier. Let's say I can hold a bottle of water up in the air with gloves as long as without, but if I need to make pressure on something, with gloves I'm exhausted fast.
I tried already a lot of windsurf gloves. the only ones that at least help very minimal for the windchill are the ones with the open inside hand.
I also use the slimes boom available on the market, custom made as with thicker booms I get exhausted faster. (just freeriding in medium winds doesn't matter, but when going for speed overpowered is where I feel a big difference)
but why would you two go windfoil instead of wingfoil is light wind? I head that pumping to get on the foil is easier with the wing. as such you can wing in even lighter winds.
Means, I heard the following:
1. should be easier to lift up
2. should be easier to control
3. should be easier for jibes
4. you can go in lighter winds.
5. less stuff to carry (in summer doesn't matter, but when it's cold and raining, etc. I think it's worth to have this in mind)
6. bigger wind range
7. easier to handle in strong gusts
sorry for all the questions, but there are not so many reviews and reports out there, and the stuff you need isn't cheap.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
WST,
I have heard that 6-8knot claim too, but have yet to see it in person. I know better than to be fooled by Instagram edits that are staged to look super light. The day I get passed by a full-sized adult male wingfoiler who gets going in 6-8 knots and sails comfortably is the day I pack in my sails for good. I hope it happens, but am not holding my breath. For now all I see and experience is a downwind waste of time in these winds. Maybe it's just that the wingers where I live rig for higher winds and aren't great in light winds yet (like me), but it's always Moth sailors in about 7 knots the ram air foil kiters at 8 or 9 knots, the windfoilers at 12 knots and the wingers at 15 knots before they can get going recently on foil. YMMV.??
Interestingly, here in Germany, people claim that get on the foil starting from 9kn. A friend of mine says he gets on the foil with his 1100 Moses Wing, a 5'8 Board, and a 6.4 wing. But he needs to pump. and he is a little heavier than me.
Also, the reviews from gleiten.tv say in the beginning you need at least 12kn wind, and once you know how to pump it gets down.
But maybe the windspeed is different at your place because of the temperature. Means, once I sailed in Egypt, the windmeter says 30kn. but I just sailed my 7.0 which in Germany I use max until 19kn.
but good to have this discussion, maybe in Europe there is so much hype about the wings that people can't fairly differentiate between Windfoil and Wingfoil
Agree. I don't wing in anything less than 10-11 knots. Unfortunately, most of the days at my local seldom get above 13 knots, which means average wind speeds are a few knots less. So you could say it's not very windy for where I live. For these conditions, kiters and kite foilers pass by like fighter jets. I've seen experienced guys get up on foil when I was not, but they also were not in the water very long. At some point, I too will get into kiting but at the moment will continue to focus on winging a cpl days a week. There is just enough wind to make it interesting and still be fun.
Select to expand quoteWST said..
interesting, as all I heard so far is that wings perform very well also in light winds. :/lots of people who Wingfoil say that in the beginning, they need around 12kn, but after they know how to pump they get flying in 8kn or even 6kn wind. :/ The reason why I wanted to Wingfoil in lighter winds is that it should be easier and less exhausting. As I wanted to do it mainly in winter times, when strong winds make it even colder, I wanted to go out in the light wind. So I can sail with gloves (Windsurfing with gloves is a pain for me, so either my fingers get frozen or I'm exhausted after 2 to 4 runs) and can enjoy it for at least an hour or so.
With normal gloves my forearms feel swollen in no time when winging.
I use ION Palmless Mittens,Mystic also makes them.
If it is not enough you can try wearing thin disposable latex or nitrile gloves underneath and tucked into the wetsuit.They will not last long but they are cheap,boxes of 200 in your hardware store.
I also use an ION neoprene beanie tied to wettie zipper,i do not like hoods that much.
ok on my lake kiting is not possible as you always need to start in the wood.
I asked gleiten.tv and he said. wingfoiling and windfoiling will start at the same speed. It's just the Olympic class windfoil with very wide boards and big sails that get a little earlier to fly.
in case of safety I agree that windfoil will be safer. I think for my lake it doesn't matter that much, as the maximum distance I would need to paddle is 250m in worst case and 500m in a still ok case. and I can be picked up all around the lake. But it's still the point with less gear to carry, and easier to learn. oh man ...
Select to expand quotemcrt said..
With normal gloves my forearms feel swollen in no time when winging.
I use ION Palmless Mittens,Mystic also makes them.
If it is not enough you can try wearing thin disposable latex or nitrile gloves underneath and tucked into the wetsuit.They will not last long but they are cheap,boxes of 200 in your hardware store.
I also use an ION neoprene beanie tied to wettie zipper,i do not like hoods that much.
hm ok :/ yes, I have the same gloved from Ion. they don't really work for me. just a very little.
I remember this Irish guy who made a windsurf race around all of Europe. When I started in the far north of Norway he had some glove construction on his boom. So he had a normal grip and needed to move his hands in and out.
My guess is if you start winging you will not windfoil after a month.To answer your question both setup are great and both foil are great.
Both board are great, yes the 6'7" is a bit long, but I guess if you want to go in ocean and use it as a sup foil it could be a better option.
I would pick the lightest setup of both. If you want to lift off in very light wind, weight is your enemy in my opinion.
If you are not tall a 6'4 wing will be hard at first, wing tips will drag in the water a lot.I'm 75kg, can wing in about 10kts right now with a 5.0 and a 1800cm2 front wing....I sold my windfoil gear. The day I saw dudes riging and riging sails because wind started at 10kts..then incresed to 15, then increased to 22kts...and I was still on the same setup while everyone was swaping sail....I said to myself forget about it! Now when I go to the cottage, I bring one bag(inflatable board) and whatever the wind is...it fits in a bag, no need for 3 sails, 2 mast and 2 booms....I windsurf elsewhere when wind is stronger and condition are fun.
If wind do shut down completely, volume is wise and if there is a lot of chops, longer board is easier to stand up and wait for next gust.
Hang loose and good luck.
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..
My guess is if you start winging you will not windfoil after a month.To answer your question both setup are great and both foil are great.
Both board are great, yes the 6'7" is a bit long, but I guess if you want to go in ocean and use it as a sup foil it could be a better option.
I would pick the lightest setup of both. If you want to lift off in very light wind, weight is your enemy in my opinion.
If you are not tall a 6'4 wing will be hard at first, wing tips will drag in the water a lot.I'm 75kg, can wing in about 10kts right now with a 5.0 and a 1800cm2 front wing....I sold my windfoil gear. The day I saw dudes riging and riging sails because wind started at 10kts..then incresed to 15, then increased to 22kts...and I was still on the same setup while everyone was swaping sail....I said to myself forget about it! Now when I go to the cottage, I bring one bag(inflatable board) and whatever the wind is...it fits in a bag, no need for 3 sails, 2 mast and 2 booms....I windsurf elsewhere when wind is stronger and condition are fun.
If wind do shut down completely, volume is wise and if there is a lot of chops, longer board is easier to stand up and wait for next gust.
Hang loose and good luck.
I don't windfoil, just windsurf. so I would need to buy gear anyway.
yes, what you described is what I heard and fits perfectly for the lake at my home.
did anyone know the weight of the two boards ( Starboard Wingboard 6'7 LTE, and Fanatic Sky Wing 5'8)
And also for the foils? I haven't found any pieces of information about this.
You said 5-15kts and above that you windsurf.
So for windfoiling all you need is a foil, chances are one of your existing boards will work fine.
Winging will require a full setup.
I've been windfoiling a while and even at 90kg I can foil in 10-12kts with a 6.3m.
I can also cruise easily one handed to get circulation back in the other on really cold days.
Most wingers I know, who are lighter than me, don't bother getting on the water unless its +15kts.
They are getting excellent range from their wings but it's all up top, not the bottom end.
Wing gear isn't any more compact if you are also bringing windsurf gear.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
You said 5-15kts and above that you windsurf.
So for windfoiling all you need is a foil, chances are one of your existing boards will work fine.
Winging will require a full setup.
I've been windfoiling a while and even at 90kg I can foil in 10-12kts with a 6.3m.
I can also cruise easily one handed to get circulation back in the other on really cold days.
Most wingers I know, who are lighter than me, don't bother getting on the water unless its +15kts.
They are getting excellent range from their wings but it's all up top, not the bottom end.
Wing gear isn't any more compact if you are also bringing windsurf gear.
none of my windsurf boards is capable of a foil. So I would need a dedicated foil board which is more expensive than a wingboard but at least I can reuse sail and boom etc.
With wingsurf and harness, you can also surf one-handed.
hm ok strange as here all I see is that they getting out in light winds. If the wind is around 10 to 13kn I saw more wingers on my lake then windsurfers and just one windfoil, once it's more then 16 there are only windsurfers :/
I mean maybe its because here we don't have other options, either you go out and try at 10 to 12kn, or you hope you can go out on the 3 to 4 days a year with more wind and from the right angle :/
None of your boards are powerbox, tuttle or deep tuttle?
Good luck on the one handed winging, that's pro level stuff. Pretty easy on windfoil.
Locally we have a lot of kiters, then windfoilers and now slowly wingers. But nobody wings in less than 15kts where we have lots of kites and windfoilers flying around. A few still windsurf if its +25kts but most still windfoil.
I wind foil and wind wing. Most of my conditions are really gusty -- 2 to 10, 5 to 12, 5 to 20 and so on. The more I wing the more I want to and although I really enjoy wind foiling the wing foiling seems to be taking over. If you purchase the right 6 metre wing then getting up in 5 to 10 or 12 knots shouldn't be a problem with something like the Moses 1100 -- just wait for the 10 knot gust and then pump yourself up.
It's the same here, the wind foilers who passed to wing foil sold their wind foil gear or don't use it anymore...and they are on wing in 8-10 knts and more. If you never foiled...it will be a bit harder at first to master the foil. I think you might learn quicker on the 6'7 since you will mainly relies on boat speed...the shorter board might be harder to maintain direction and generate boat speed. When you become better, you generate more power by pumping the foil and need a lot less boat speed. However the fanatic, more compact is a board you will probably keep longer, you might want to reduce length after a while.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
None of your boards are powerbox, tuttle or deep tuttle?
Good luck on the one handed winging, that's pro level stuff. Pretty easy on windfoil.
Locally we have a lot of kiters, then windfoilers and now slowly wingers. But nobody wings in less than 15kts where we have lots of kites and windfoilers flying around. A few still windsurf if its +25kts but most still windfoil.
hm he is explaining how. and when wingsurf in the harness
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..
It's the same here, the wind foilers who passed to wing foil sold their wind foil gear or don't use it anymore...and they are on wing in 8-10 knts and more. If you never foiled...it will be a bit harder at first to master the foil. I think you might learn quicker on the 6'7 since you will mainly relies on boat speed...the shorter board might be harder to maintain direction and generate boat speed. When you become better, you generate more power by pumping the foil and need a lot less boat speed. However the fanatic, more compact is a board you will probably keep longer, you might want to reduce length after a while.
i think with 181cm the 6.4 shouldn't be a problem. also the slingwing v2 have in all sizes the same width
hm, but did anyone know the wights of the boards and the foils?
somehow all the informations are missing.
so you would also say that for my weight of 70kg the 2100sqaure cm will produce the same lift as the 2400, but will be easier to control in little stronger winds ?
Hi WST, I am replying regarding the power in different wind locations. The difference between northern Europe and say Australia is the amount of moisture in the air. In Europe this means that the air is denser and therefore has more power than Australia. Therefore 15 knots in Britain is equivalent to 20 knots in Australia.
I read about his many years ago on Australian sailors racing in Britain and having to spend time adjusting to the increased power in the wind.
I get up here on a Wing Foil in around 12 knots but in Europe I would be able to get on the foil in less wind.
Select to expand quotejohndg said..
Hi WST, I am replying regarding the power in different wind locations. The difference between northern Europe and say Australia is the amount of moisture in the air. In Europe this means that the air is denser and therefore has more power than Australia. Therefore 15 knots in Britain is equivalent to 20 knots in Australia.
I read about his many years ago on Australian sailors racing in Britain and having to spend time adjusting to the increased power in the wind.
I get up here on a Wing Foil in around 12 knots but in Europe I would be able to get on the foil in less wind.
thank you very much, that's what I thought,
I'm 64kg and not super experienced winging. I can get up on foil in 9 or 10 Australian knots with a 5m Airush/Starboard wing, 5'11 x 24 Starboard foil board and 2000cm2 Starboard wing. Takes a bit of patience to wait for a tiny gust and some pumping practice but once up feel really quite powered. I've also got a 1500cm2 foil set and prefer it but need about 12 knots with the 5m wing. Strangely the new for me small board is easier to get on foil than my other board which is a Starboard 6'6 x 30. But you need a bigger board and bigger foil set to learn on in the beginning. It's so easy to sell wing gear at the moment I think it's better to start with larger board and larger foil, get used to it all and then get smaller gear if it feels too big. After 20+ years of windsurfing I love the simplicity and wind range of the wing foiling gear.
Starboard website lists the 6'7 x 28 Litetech as 8.7kg - surprises me because my 6'6 x 30 in Starlite - same volume is 7.8kg and usually the Litetech is lighter than the Starlite. Maybe the footstraps inserts add a bit, they do say estimated though.
I think a 5'8 board is too small to learn on in freezing water, you have to struggle with nosediving if you aren't balanced in the beginning learning stages. I'd get a board you can easily just climb up and stand on rather than having to knee start if it's that cold. If you can stand comfortably you can still point reasonably high in super light wind off the foil.
Good point JonathanC. Both boards are the same width and the fanatic is heavy as well. Definitely more stable the starboard.
For wind density, dryer air is more dense BUT colder air is more as well, so maybe that was the main factor when sailing in UK? When I visited Australia in summer, I was back from a 4months trip on Maui and wind was better than maui in my opinion, less gusty on your east coast. I visited from Cains to Adelaide, what a beautiful country and amazing playground!!! My Icon or picture that you sea in the left corner beside my name was taken in Brunswick Head.
If I'm correct that the Moses 1100 is 2100, there is not much difference in a 2100 vs 2400cm2 foil.
Hi WST,
where about in Germany do you surf? We have a big Wing-Foil community north of the "Ruhrgebiet", at the lake Auesee. Almost everyone is moving to smaller and shorter boards quickly. With a windsurfing-background your balance shouldn't be too bad either. From what I know today, I would not buy the Fanatic Sky SUP again. The board is great for what it was designed for, but not that much for wing-foiling. Everything above 6' is too longing my opinion. You want to keep the swing-weight low. You can drop me a line if you want to chat: david(at)rewe-buesken.de
interesting, where did you found the weight on the starboard page? could you please share the link? maybe ist just Australien page and not the german one :/
yes, it's the same as with windsurfing, big is beautiful :D
Yes, the Moses 1100 is 2100cm2 , Moses and I Think Armstrong using the width of the wings and not cm2.
so 1100 is a huge span. it's 10cm more than the starboard 2400.
I currently more to the Moses foil, as it's cheaper than the starboard carbon version, and only the carbon version is swimming. (heard to much about people losing their foils ... )
and for me, it looks more flexible.
For Starboard I can exchange the front wing and the back wing. but I can't change the fuselage, and also it looks like I can't buy the front wing separately. (maybe because it's new and no one offers it yet :/ ) but one I will add a smaller front wing in the future, the Moses wll be even cheaper compared to Starboard aluminum version.
Select to expand quoteDB2 said..
Hi WST,
where about in Germany do you surf? We have a big Wing-Foil community north of the "Ruhrgebiet", at the lake Auesee. Almost everyone is moving to smaller and shorter boards quickly. With a windsurfing-background your balance shouldn't be too bad either. From what I know today, I would not buy the Fanatic Sky SUP again. The board is great for what it was designed for, but not that much for wing-foiling. Everything above 6' is too longing my opinion. You want to keep the swing-weight low. You can drop me a line if you want to chat: david(at)rewe-buesken.de
thanks, I will surf north of Berlin.
Here is the link, just scroll down to the bottom of this page and there is a chart including estimated weights
sup.star-board.com/wing-board/wingboard-foil/
As far as I know all the 2021 Starboard foils have an extra locking screw to prevent the potential foil loss. The upside of their system is the simplicity of setting up the foils, so much easier and faster. The rear foil / stabilizer can have the angle changed easily without shims. Two different fuselage lengths are offered. Not sure about the option of buying different foils individually, guess that may be market specific and up to the importer in Germany.
Select to expand quoteJonathanC said..
Here is the link, just scroll down to the bottom of this page and there is a chart including estimated weights
sup.star-board.com/wing-board/wingboard-foil/
thank you, looks like I didn't saw it before 
It occurred to me over the past few days there are more nuances to perceived wind speed when wing foiling. At my local spot on Weds I struggled but did much better the following day. After looking at the wind speeds, they were not so different. Weds the peak speed was 10 knots, Thurs 11 knots. Thursday did have much less variability. I also made it a point on Thurs to start in a slightly different spot, upwind from Weds location. The spot is more bowl shaped by the shore and seemed to do a better job at funneling the wind. My point is we get caught up in saying winging can only be performed at X knots, but there may be more to it and be influenced by local factors.
