Have just seen the Real Watersports review of the Slingshot V3 HH (hard handles) vs the Javelin V1 (Boom). Interesting watch, what does everyone here think?
Real Watersports review here -
Select to expand quoteMiddleAgeGrom said..
Have just seen the Real Watersports review of the Slingshot V3 HH (hard handles) vs the Javelin V1 (Boom). Interesting watch, what does everyone here think?
Real Watersports review here -
Personal taste. Had a Duotone boom hated it. Have hard handles on new V3 Smik now which are very good. But still think I prefer the soft handles on a V2 Smik or PPC they are quite stiff.
Handles as on Dlabs and North Modes.
I kept forgetting the boom and the boom is complicated to post when selling ??.
I have been learning on soft handles and used them for a year, now changed to Duotone hard handles (Unit) and wouldn't go back.
Much more direct control, it takes a couple of sessions to get used to them but to me they are a better choice.
Not all soft handles are the created equal. There are some I love and others I hate. The ones I hate are a long handle that is way too slack and waste a ton of energy when pumping.
In the bigger sizes (+4m) I prefer hard handles for the grunt and direct feel. Soft handles are very well suited in smaller sizes as they are better in absorbing gusts, lighter and a bit more comfortable overall in those conditions. My main size is 5.0.
Recently moved from Ozone WASP (V1 and V2, both have soft handles) to Cabrinha Mantis V2 (hard handles). Now about 10 sessions on the (semi-)hard handles. My 2 cents:
Yes, I can understand what people like about them (direct feel, more powertransfer), but...
I find the hard handles more stressfull on the wrist/underarm, especially when you need to wear gloves or when your at the upper wind limit of the wing. A (semi-)hard handle or boom brings an ergonomics-variable into the equation.
I find doing a stinkbug start in choppy conditions is a lot easier with soft handles because you can get better grip/hold of the board while holding the handle.
With hard handles you need to pump the wing hard for the handles to work and last. In very gusty and/or strong conditions it's sometimes nice to soften the wing (less fatique).
Soft handles are nicer to your board (dings) and pack with more ease and maybe a bit smaller.
Select to expand quoteFlyingPeew said..
I find doing a stinkbug start in choppy conditions is a lot easier with soft handles because you can get better grip/hold of the board while holding the handle.
+1
I rented a Duotone Slick 4m recently and i had aterrible time doing the Stinkbug...no room for me to get between board and wing...
Superb wing otherwise, unreal upwind.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
Not all soft handles are the created equal. There are some I love and others I hate. The ones I hate are a long handle that is way too slack and waste a ton of energy when pumping.
True, I know Slingshot went from many smaller soft handles on the Slingwing V2 to two large/long soft handles on the Slingwing V3, maybe makes sense for a wing like that with lots of low end power and so it can absorb the gusts, but I guess the trade off is a less direct feel.
Select to expand quoteMiddleAgeGrom said..Windbot said..
Not all soft handles are the created equal. There are some I love and others I hate. The ones I hate are a long handle that is way too slack and waste a ton of energy when pumping.
True, I know Slingshot went from many smaller soft handles on the Slingwing V2 to two large/long soft handles on the Slingwing V3, maybe makes sense for a wing like that with lots of low end power and so it can absorb the gusts, but I guess the trade off is a less direct feel.
Yes the v3 handles are exactly what I was referring to. I can't for the life of me understand why they made them so big and loose, especially compared to the Takuma Wingride III's handles, I love those!
There are some good points in this thread about when soft handles are preferable, such as for holding in very cold weather as well as for ding prevention.
Was fine with soft handles but just had to try the boom (Slick SLS). Loved it immediately. So much easier than reaching for the back strap/handle during transitions. Holding onto the boom one handed while riding swell is really helpful as well. It does cause more strain on the forearms initially but you start to adapt and using a harness (especially in the winter with gloves) is helpful as well. The strain is nothing compared to windsurfing!
I also really like the handles on the unit, amazing and direct power. The boom just wins out overall for me given its like a cheat code, taking the guess work out of looking for the back handle.
DC
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..
Handles as on Dlabs and North Modes.
I kept forgetting the boom and the boom is complicated to post when selling ??.
Definitely a good point in regards to shipping the boom, if you preferred the boom though surely worth a bit of extra future shipping cost. Especially if you live in a capital where you likely may not even have to ship it.
It's also easy to perfectly position harness lines on a boom. Now that I use a harness this is a big plus, but only on wings 4mtr and smaller.
I windsurfed for about 35 yrs and it's insane how many don't know how to adjust harness lines on a boom!!!
I have used all 3 (fabric, boom and HH).
I never really had an issue with fabric handles, then the javelin came out and I have the boom with 4.0 and 5.0 sizes.
positives are how rigid it feels, it helps in tacking toe side and heel side as you can always slide your hands into position.
For gybing it makes it sooo much easier it's like cheating and it also helped me boost jumps.
The only real downside is the added weight, and they don't flag as well when surfing a wave.
I have had 5-6 sessions on the hard handles (4.5 and 5.5, have not used the 6.5 yet) they feel absolutely amazing, nice and rigid with
a locked in feel, you can switch to pistol grip for flagging and the boosts are very fun.
I made a video on the Javelin 5.0 and 4.0 and next couple of days I will post the Hard Handle footage.
Tested the 4.5 HH last night in 14-18mph (I am 200 lbs/90kg) I would normally ride a 5.5 in that wind strength...
Besides the handle type there are also differences inbetween the wings that translate into the feel.
My first reaction was typing, had it all and prever the hard handles, but that is too much of a short cut because Iin my opnion the wingprofile has a lot to do with it as well so I can,t blame one single variable in it.I owned a few Duotone Echo,s and Slicks and had no problem with the boom at all, but didnt like that the tail dropped more as with other wings and that it was flying less stable when flagged as I prever. Both issues might be not the "fault" of the boom but the overall wing design that might not suit my needs/style.
I really liked my Airrush V1 and Smik V1+V2, didnt miss the boom, but a big part of what I liked was the neutral feel when flagged.
Then got into Cabrinha Mantis V2 with there semi hard handles and now the V3 that feels a LOT like the V2, but with thinner hard handles with a bit suspenion. Love those wings and the really suit my style. Based on that I could say that I love handles. No! Tried the Dlab and Unit with there really stiff solid handles and completely diff profile but those didnt work for me,. Again: not sure if that is just the handle, or the positioning or the profile.
I,m not gonna buy one, but it would be really really intersting to try an Ocean Rodeo with the system where you can ad on the same wing soft handles, hard handles and a boom. They are really expensive and more as I wanna pay for a wing right now, but love the idea!
Select to expand quoteJeroensurf said..
..intersting to try an Ocean Rodeo with the system where you can ad on the same wing soft handles, hard handles and a boom...
A couple of local OR riders at my beach bought carbon handles and carbon booms. Both riders said they prefer the boom.
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
I have used all 3 (fabric, boom and HH).
I never really had an issue with fabric handles, then the javelin came out and I have the boom with 4.0 and 5.0 sizes.
positives are how rigid it feels, it helps in tacking toe side and heel side as you can always slide your hands into position.
For gybing it makes it sooo much easier it's like cheating and it also helped me boost jumps.
The only real downside is the added weight, and they don't flag as well when surfing a wave.
I have had 5-6 sessions on the hard handles (4.5 and 5.5, have not used the 6.5 yet) they feel absolutely amazing, nice and rigid with
a locked in feel, you can switch to pistol grip for flagging and the boosts are very fun.
I made a video on the Javelin 5.0 and 4.0 and next couple of days I will post the Hard Handle footage.
Interesting, that all makes sense. Some cool footage and good little review there!
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
Tested the 4.5 HH last night in 14-18mph (I am 200 lbs/90kg) I would normally ride a 5.5 in that wind strength...
So plenty of grunt then? Would you say more grunt than the Javelin?
I have been riding Slick's for 2 years and the only one in my group to use lets say fixed grip not handles. I am am the only one suffering tennis elbow as well. My friends in the UK all use Units and slicks and many of them seem to suffer as well.
Looking back at it, it's when there is very slight wind and you actually support the wing, it's the twisting of your wrist which puts, the force on your elbow. Unlike with a loose handle you support with your fingers the strut. Once loaded with wind no issue, it's all that waiting for the wind and twisting it, well thats my view on it.
Select to expand quoteMiddleAgeGrom said..CoreAS said..
Tested the 4.5 HH last night in 14-18mph (I am 200 lbs/90kg) I would normally ride a 5.5 in that wind strength...
So plenty of grunt then? Would you say more grunt than the Javelin?
That's a good question.. The 5.0 javelin I think has a hair more grunt and the 4.5 HH just feels more efficient when pumping.Like smaller/quicker pumps but you can pump the wing much faster if that makes sense?
