Looks tasty, and a sign of good things to come. Compatible with kraken mast system.
Was chatting with Sabfoil Support yesterday. Asked about the Blackbird as it was related to the tasks at hand.
It was mentioned in the above Hoppline video, that a Blackbird Razor would be very interesting.
For me too (probably more than the current Blackbird Balz Pro), so I asked for some leaking:
"Stay tuned - very soon you'll be able to discover more information about the Razor Pro! ??"
For those of you also doing dockstart pumping on calm days, the Piantone Blackbird masts seems to make a nice all-round mast.
To my question: "The M75 mast performs exceptionally well for pumping given your characteristics [85kg] - you'll be pleasantly surprised.
However, we recommend not exceeding the 1350 size."
That makes sense with the Piantone, as there are no longer alternative fast pumping masts available from Sabfoil.
Red Devil series with the coreless high modulus masts seems to be totally gone from their web, and while many liked them for pumping/multi, they were absolutely breakable. (mostly for light guys and not the big front wings, really dangerous to fall onto after snapping)
The Piuma series were discontinued a year or so back. While promising, even light guys found it a bit soft for dockstart/pumping.
The Sabfoil P-series (dedicated pump masts) are surely still there, but I found those masts to be too slow for other use, except for SUP.
Looks like the Piantone Blackbird will tidy up their line, giving better all-round masts, while making traveling and budget management easier.
While I'm currently having a great time with the SeaDevil 840 and 1040, I'm looking much forward to get the Blackbird for bigger days. Guess I will end up with the (likely) upcoming Razor version, and hope they are right about the Piantone for this and that.
Looks good, but the "fuse" is chunky. Should've probably gone for a saddle joint mast-fuse connection like F-One, Duotone.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..
Looks good, but the "fuse" is chunky. Should've probably gone for a saddle joint mast-fuse connection like F-One, Duotone.
Or not and closer to a Code Foil. Maybe there is a reason. And technically there is no fuse.
The mast fuse join is so you can use Black Bird with current M8 Kraken masts. I am using Balz 905 BB with RED Devil 85 and its amazing
They are using the fuse section for some added lift which could be clever.
Would have been cool if the Sea Devil used the same tails.
Select to expand quoteZeroVix said..Faff said..
Looks good, but the "fuse" is chunky. Should've probably gone for a saddle joint mast-fuse connection like F-One, Duotone.
Or not and closer to a Code Foil. Maybe there is a reason. And technically there is no fuse.
Backwards compatibility would be my guess. There is always carbon wear with this kind of connection. (OTOH, the plane is not hanging on just by the bolts.)
Select to expand quoteFaff said..
Looks good, but the "fuse" is chunky. Should've probably gone for a saddle joint mast-fuse connection like F-One, Duotone.
I'm more interested in its performance than what it looks like.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..ZeroVix said..Faff said..
Looks good, but the "fuse" is chunky. Should've probably gone for a saddle joint mast-fuse connection like F-One, Duotone.
Or not and closer to a Code Foil. Maybe there is a reason. And technically there is no fuse.
Backwards compatibility would be my guess. There is always carbon wear with this kind of connection. (OTOH, the plane is not hanging on just by the bolts.)
I don't understand what you mean? It isn't backward compatible. SAB will make a tail that you can use existing stabilizers, not only the one piece tail that is the BB line.
Select to expand quoteZeroVix said..Faff said..ZeroVix said..Faff said..
Looks good, but the "fuse" is chunky. Should've probably gone for a saddle joint mast-fuse connection like F-One, Duotone.
Or not and closer to a Code Foil. Maybe there is a reason. And technically there is no fuse.
Backwards compatibility would be my guess. There is always carbon wear with this kind of connection. (OTOH, the plane is not hanging on just by the bolts.)
I don't understand what you mean? It isn't backward compatible. SAB will make a tail that you can use existing stabilizers, not only the one piece tail that is the BB line.
I meant the existing masts are compatible with it.
First signs of the further extension of the Blackbird line can be found online. This "Next up" is a Razor style set of front wings (spans 877 / 977 / 1077). Can't tell if they're razor pro's fitted in the BB philosophy or and evolution of those front wings into the BB.
The Blackbird system seems to be designed with backward compatibility in mind. The exisiting Kraken R8 mast/fuselage connection is present. It looks as if the BB-masts can be used with the Kraken-fuselages as well. Due to the BB-design it's not backward compatible with the stabilisers, but that could change if Sabfoil markets a tailsection that allows for stab changes. Or you could have an adapter made by a handyman.
Biggest downside is that the prices for the existing gear have dropped (so the resale value of my quiver has disappeared).
Sabfoil claims improved lift performance thanks to their redesigned fuselage and overall system integration. But how well does a 905 mm span wing (998 cm2) actually perform-say, compared to something like the F-One Seven Seas? Could it match the lift and stability of a 1100 cm2 wing? I'm looking for a foil that offers solid lift and stability, but I'm concerned that going up to something like the 965 mm (1210 cm2) might feel too draggy & slow for my current skill level (85 kg rider). Any theoretical insights or real-world experience comparing these or similar setups?
@filthyscent. There's a lot more to foil design than surface area (that's arguably the worst aspect to compare foils).
I can only tell that I exchanged the Sabfoil WO945 (surface: 1300) for the Sabfoil WRP975 (surface: 942) as daily driver. Would say that these have about the same take-off speed and lift, the WO945 turns more fluid, the WRP975 pumps a lot better and feels more glidey.
Anything new on the horizon. We know the 877/977/1077 are on the way. A universal tail for existing stabs should be coming out too. What mast are you guys using with wide span wings (1360/1350/1550/1750)? Marketing stuff isn't exactly accurate. Test have shown the regular Kraken mast perform best for wide wings. Looks like the Red Devil (discontinued) and BB aren't the best for large wings. Only other alternative is the forged Cedrus aluminum mast with Kraken adapter. Thoughts??? Thoughts meaning real world - not SAB marketing nonsense.
Not data on the new wings but my experience (95kg) with the Balz 909 is that it's incredibly user friendly. I'm guessing these are similar.
Select to expand quoteZeroVix said..
Looks like the Red Devil (discontinued) and BB aren't the best for large wings. Only other alternative is the forged Cedrus aluminum mast with Kraken adapter. Thoughts??? Thoughts meaning real world - not SAB marketing nonsense.
No BB info here, but since you asked about the masts... For dock starting with a 1350 I use either a 74 cm red devil, or a 70 CM carbon glass mast, that is thicker, but super stiff and a good cheap alternative to the MK/73P series masts.
Taavi, you are light weight. How about 90kg plus? I have seen reviews on SAB forums of heavier riders experiencing issues with wide span wings. And just for clarification, with normal size wings (under 1 meter) it doesn't apply. That glass mast is no longer in their lineup.
A good trick with the bigger / more powerful front wings is to stand more over the centerline of the board and not so much near the rails of the board, and with a narrower stance.
Hi guys, I had the opportunity to touch with my hands the new Blackbird system and one the new Razor front wings + a new aluminum tail...if you are curious here you find my video :)
And now we have an actual rider review on the new Blackbird Razor Pro.
Very exciting stuff. There are a few of us queuing up to try out this new Sabfoil system.
Especially interested in the return of the wave-oriented wings in the Onda series.
Sabfoil was very early on the market in that discipline, but somehow didn't evolve that serie. The freestyle-oriented wings and the Razor's that have comes out since are good for riding waves, but are compromised if you get knitty-gritty about the ideal characteristics of wave-oriented foils.
When you consider larger and heavier riders (say above 85kg and 180 cm) pushing larger wingspan foils (>100 cm span) the challenges are the same for any brand of foil kit. Sabfoil was early to introduce large (wingspan) foils in multiple eras of our young sport. Sabfoil already had the Leviathan front wings, Pump specific masts and the sturdy Kraken mast/fuse connection. At the introduction of that Kraken connection there was some critique about it being heavier than neccesary. That critique made some sense for lighter riders and small foils but for heavier riders and larger span it was a very logical way to go. Other brands have sought solutions as well, most recent example being AXIS. They just marketed the Fatty series in respons to the challenges faced with their existing kit for heavier riders and larger foils (and pumpfoiling).
Best thing you can do to improve your foiling is to loose weight :-)
Along with the Blackbird Blade Sabfoil has also added a 110 cm Blackbird mast to their range. Same dimensions as the rest of the Blackbird masts. Especially race-oriented wingers and kitefoilers will be very happy.
