Greetings Wingers and Happy Holidays!
I have discovered a major problem with my SWX 5.2M. First of all, let me state I'm not here to bash this great wing and the concept behind it. The whole Xply concept had me sold immediately. As soon as I saw the first ad, I hit the buy now button from RealWatersports. I was happy with the wing, it's not perfect but it's very good. Those ups and down issues have been discussed in previous threads.
After my 6th session on the wing, I had it laying on the grass drying out while inflated. My eye caught a dimpled and wavy patch of the canopy close to the leading edge. On closer inspection, I saw the third lap seam in from the wingtip had a seam that was pulling apart exposing the internal black support thread and creating small tears in the xply. Shocking! At first, I thought maybe somehow I damaged that area. But honestly, I didn't have any major wipeouts. Then I saw the exact same damage on the exact same seam on the opposite side of the wing. Damn, talk about being bummed. Now I can't use the wing until I settle with Realwatersports on a warranty claim. I'm afraid that if I use it more the seam will completely tear, right now the tears are really small. I use to be an aircraft inspector in a prior life so my eyes are trained well, I notice everything.
It appears that the lap joints (term used in aviation mx.) or seams are glued and stitched during the manufacturing process. It looks to me that when pulled apart the glue gets exposed and turns more opaque colored. When pulled apart small tears have been created completely through the Xply.
It appears that this area cannot handle the pressure applied when the wing is generating a lot of power.
I will follow up on the outcome of my warranty claim with Real.
Please, guys, this thread is not intended to bash Reedin or Damian so let's not turn this thread into something it wasn't intended to be. I am putting this out there for information to the masses, knowledge is power.
I bought this wing as soon as it came out, I was the only guy out at Kailua with it and it garnered a lot of attention. I don't think there has been a lot of feedback on the wing and this is the 5.2M Obviously the other sizes will have pressure differentials in different areas and may not be affected or maybe my wing was a one-off.
Attached are some pics of the damaged area.
Lol this is a pointless post. Nothing knocking the cloth, ****ty seam and it's just loaded and torn. Going through warranty is pretty overkill. Just go to a sail maker, no doubt they'd charge you <$50. Pretty easy fix to meet a pretty pointless complaint.
Actually as a sailmaker, I'd say its a seam failure. I can't comment on what caused it obviously but we call it seam combing. It's when the double sided tape used to glue the seam fails and the stitching pulls through the film. The double sided tape has a very fine tissue between the glue layers and when the tape is pulled apart it goes opaque like the OP described.
It could happen by the owner over-stressing the seam or it could be a seam that is not strong enough to take the loads.
I would say it's definitely worth taking through the warranty process, even if in the end it's decided the seam was over-stressed at some stage. Then everyone in the process learns and the product gets better...
You would normally stickyback both sides and then sew through the seam. Xply laminate doesn't handle needle holes without reinforcement.
Damn right it's a warranty issue. These seams weren't properly reinforced to begin with. Their seaming may have worked with 3 mil but not 1 mil.
Select to expand quotehilly said..
What is the purpose of the post? Looks like it has been badly folded.
Typical troll post, get a life
Select to expand quoteKing Crash said..
Lol this is a pointless post. Nothing knocking the cloth, ****ty seam and it's just loaded and torn. Going through warranty is pretty overkill. Just go to a sail maker, no doubt they'd charge you <$50. Pretty easy fix to meet a pretty pointless complaint.
Hahaha, says the expert. Aren't you the guy that made that Xply half wing that looked like some third grader taped together
Thats why all xply windsurfing sails have dacron tape on the outsides of every seam aswell.
Appears like a glue/stitch failure and having only +-5x sessions on it and it's on both sides heck yeah I'd try to get them to help you out,that's not normal wear and tear after 5 sessions and would imagine those wings ain't cheap! That's a reason I never jump on a new product material in first year of production got to wait it it see how new materials shake out against wear in tear of wing use as wings take much more abuse than kites or windsurfing sails
When i get a problem with gear i try to solve it via the distributor/manufacturer.If they deliver then that's it.
Posting like this about a new,innovative product is unnecessary and unfair punishment for the maker unless they leave you hanging.
In the other thread, you stated, that you used the wing in winds up to 25kn. I would say that explains a lot. I am roughly 220lbs and I would go with my 3.5m Ensis in those conditions. But yes, I would always check with the shop/distributor/manufacturer before going public... just saying.
I just received a 3.6 superwing and have to say that looks so much better in quality than my Ensis wings.
This is one way to have improvements to the process of making the wing done quicker. We are all hoping this is a game changer in the life of are wings.
As somebody involved in windsurf sail design in my opinion it is actually a design issue. xply needs to be reinforced with insignia tape on the seam edges as the film will fail due to the needle holes without it....just like this wing has.
Select to expand quoteproneorwingit said..Typical troll post, get a life
why don't you finish the warranty process before trashing the brand?
Select to expand quoteproneorwingit said..King Crash said..
Lol this is a pointless post. Nothing knocking the cloth, ****ty seam and it's just loaded and torn. Going through warranty is pretty overkill. Just go to a sail maker, no doubt they'd charge you <$50. Pretty easy fix to meet a pretty pointless complaint.
Hahaha, says the expert. Aren't you the guy that made that Xply half wing that looked like some third grader taped together
Yeah man - replaced half a wing after deeming it was stuffed. Not a bad job mind you, and have been messing around with the shape a few times. Actually looks pretty good when loaded and going upwind now.
Point remains - if you're desperate to get out, go to a sail makers and they'll do a repair on it. I too noticed this issue on mine at the tack. Just had to add reinforcement and good to go, no issues. Given its just a small part of the seam, wouldn't be hard.
Either way. People want light laminate sails, you need more strategic reinforcement, rather than small luff and clew patches. All a learning process for manufacturers and riders alike.
Select to expand quoteDB2 said..
In the other thread, you stated, that you used the wing in winds up to 25kn. I would say that explains a lot. I am roughly 220lbs and I would go with my 3.5m Ensis in those conditions. But yes, I would always check with the shop/distributor/manufacturer before going public... just saying.
I just received a 3.6 superwing and have to say that looks so much better in quality than my Ensis wings.
Hahaha, I forgot how many simple people there are out there. Quite entertaining though.
Select to expand quotehilly said..proneorwingit said..Typical troll post, get a life
why don't you finish the warranty process before trashing the brand?
Don't see anywhere in the original post the brand or the SWX was trashed. Here's an early adopter of something new who paid top dollar and now has a VERY obvious manufacturing defect (as it's symmetrical), in a VERY short period of time. I hope he'll follow up with how the warranty process goes as I'm still interested in the wing.
Select to expand quoteThatspec said..hilly said..proneorwingit said..Typical troll post, get a life
why don't you finish the warranty process before trashing the brand?
Don't see anywhere in the original post the brand or the SWX was trashed. Here's an early adopter of something new who paid top dollar and now has a VERY obvious manufacturing defect (as it's symmetrical), in a VERY short period of time. I hope he'll follow up with how the warranty process goes as I'm still interested in the wing.
Ok so second post on SB starts:
I have discovered a major problem with my SWX 5.2M.
Very positive.
Why not wait for the warranty to be sorted first??
Select to expand quotehilly said..Thatspec said..hilly said..proneorwingit said..Typical troll post, get a life
why don't you finish the warranty process before trashing the brand?
Don't see anywhere in the original post the brand or the SWX was trashed. Here's an early adopter of something new who paid top dollar and now has a VERY obvious manufacturing defect (as it's symmetrical), in a VERY short period of time. I hope he'll follow up with how the warranty process goes as I'm still interested in the wing.
Ok so second post on SB starts:
I have discovered a major problem with my SWX 5.2M.
Very positive.
Why not wait for the warranty to be sorted first??
Why wait for the warranty to be sorted?
If it's a design issue I'd want to know, so I'm happy the OP shared this so we can all know. Im sure he'll also keep us posted about how they deal with warranty.
Also, if this happened to a friend of yours wouldn't you want to know? Or would you also want him to wait for the warranty process to be finished before he told you?
This is a forum, not a publication.
I had a LE seam issue with my BRM 6M that was covered under warranty (may have overinflated). I had a local sailmaker fix it and BRM covered the cost plus some. I didn't post it up, but I guess i just did :)
I truly don't understand this philosophy of some to protect a brand (or a fill in the blank _______) at the cost of honesty. Seems like this upside-down phenomenon is taking over everywhere. It's like they think the public is too stupid to handle the truth.
In the long run these types of open honest discussions help the whole community, including the manufactures'. And really isn't that why we visit public forums? Honest, real, experiences and feedback IMO is what gives this place value.
The concept of using laminate is great, but this execution is lacking. It's not a one-off occurrence but an oversight that they need to correct across their product range. Anyone who's built or repaired a windsurf sail knows that monofilm can't hold stitches without a backer of tape.
Select to expand quoteFishdude said..
I truly don't understand this philosophy of some to protect a brand (or a fill in the blank _______) at the cost of honesty. Seems like this upside-down phenomenon is taking over everywhere. It's like they think the public is too stupid to handle the truth.
In the long run these types of open honest discussions help the whole community, including the manufactures'. And really isn't that why we visit public forum? Honest, real, experiences and feedback IMO is what gives this place value.
That assumes everyone is open and honest without any ulterior motive. They have never over inflated, wiped out in waves, used in over powered conditions, ect. Very admirable view of the world, I have unfortunately seen many examples of people with an agenda posting stuff that has a negative effect. It would be interesting to hear the companies response to the warranty claim to get a balanced view.
Select to expand quotehilly said..Fishdude said..
I truly don't understand this philosophy of some to protect a brand (or a fill in the blank _______) at the cost of honesty. Seems like this upside-down phenomenon is taking over everywhere. It's like they think the public is too stupid to handle the truth.
In the long run these types of open honest discussions help the whole community, including the manufactures'. And really isn't that why we visit public forum? Honest, real, experiences and feedback IMO is what gives this place value.
That assumes everyone is open and honest without any ulterior motive. They have never over inflated, wiped out in waves, used in over powered conditions, ect. Very admirable view of the world, I have unfortunately seen many examples of people with an agenda posting stuff that has a negative effect. It would be interesting to hear the companies response to the warranty claim to get a balanced view.
Hilly now your talking out of both sides of your mouth. You were the first person to respond to my post with your little nugget of wisdom
"What is the purpose of the post? Looks like it has been badly folded" I knew that I'd get really stupid responses from geniuses of your intelligence. Your not posting anything positive here. Isn't there another forum you can troll?
Select to expand quotegreg87foil said..hilly said..Thatspec said..hilly said..proneorwingit said..Typical troll post, get a life
why don't you finish the warranty process before trashing the brand?
Don't see anywhere in the original post the brand or the SWX was trashed. Here's an early adopter of something new who paid top dollar and now has a VERY obvious manufacturing defect (as it's symmetrical), in a VERY short period of time. I hope he'll follow up with how the warranty process goes as I'm still interested in the wing.
Ok so second post on SB starts:
I have discovered a major problem with my SWX 5.2M.
Very positive.
Why not wait for the warranty to be sorted first??
Why wait for the warranty to be sorted?
If it's a design issue I'd want to know, so I'm happy the OP shared this so we can all know. Im sure he'll also keep us posted about how they deal with warranty.
Also, if this happened to a friend of yours wouldn't you want to know? Or would you also want him to wait for the warranty process to be finished before he told you?
This is a forum, not a publication.
Thanks Thatspec and Greg87foil! I put this whole issue out to the public because I thought another SWX 5.2 owner might possibly have the same problem and this would make him aware of the situation before the seam blew. The affected area isn't that obvious until you look very closely. I think the manufacturer would also want to see his product in this state rather than a full blown seam. Plus I think it's easier to warranty the wing in this state before the seam opens up into a full on rip. I will also keep you posted on how the whole warranty process plays out. This is all positive info to be shared amongst fellow wingers in an open public forum.
Blue skies and warm winds,
Proneorwingit
Select to expand quoteproneorwingit said..greg87foil said..hilly said..Thatspec said..hilly said..proneorwingit said..Typical troll post, get a life
why don't you finish the warranty process before trashing the brand?
Don't see anywhere in the original post the brand or the SWX was trashed. Here's an early adopter of something new who paid top dollar and now has a VERY obvious manufacturing defect (as it's symmetrical), in a VERY short period of time. I hope he'll follow up with how the warranty process goes as I'm still interested in the wing.
Ok so second post on SB starts:
I have discovered a major problem with my SWX 5.2M.
Very positive.
Why not wait for the warranty to be sorted first??
Why wait for the warranty to be sorted?
If it's a design issue I'd want to know, so I'm happy the OP shared this so we can all know. Im sure he'll also keep us posted about how they deal with warranty.
Also, if this happened to a friend of yours wouldn't you want to know? Or would you also want him to wait for the warranty process to be finished before he told you?
This is a forum, not a publication.
Thanks Thatspec and Greg87foil! I put this whole issue out to the public because I thought another SWX 5.2 owner might possibly have the same problem and this would make him aware of the situation before the seam blew. The affected area isn't that obvious until you look very closely. I think the manufacturer would also want to see his product in this state rather than a full blown seam. Plus I think it's easier to warranty the wing in this state before the seam opens up into a full on rip. I will also keep you posted on how the whole warranty process plays out. This is all positive info to be shared amongst fellow wingers in an open public forum.
Blue skies and warm winds,
Proneorwingit
Amen don't see any bashing of a brand here just a heads up if you will that's what these forums are about comparison of performance of different foils,wings,boards etc so we wingers/supfoilers can get a idea of how these pricey products are holding up in the real world of ocean waves trashing they take,really don't see anything upsetting with this whatsoever,if I bought one of these wings I'd be glad to hear of a potential issue beforehand to keep an eye on it as opposed to not knowing same thing with any other foil winging product
Select to expand quote
Hilly now your talking out of both sides of your mouth. You were the first person to respond to my post with your little nugget of wisdom
"What is the purpose of the post? Looks like it has been badly folded" I knew that I'd get really stupid responses from geniuses of your intelligence. Your not posting anything positive here. Isn't there another forum you can troll?
Interesting Proneoewright. Member since Oct 2021 Hilly Member since 2004 Telling Hilly to troll another forum.Just because he does not see your point does not give you the wright to have a go at every one that does not agree with you.
I find your post interesting and I also find Hilly comments over the years to be very helpful .
Got to go the wind is up here in Sydney.
Quote
Personal attacks questioning other forum members intelligence..hmm. All credibility goes straight out the window at that point. I love the fact that SeaBreeze has become more international but hate the fact that the Aussie banter seems to have sometimes turned into something more aggressive and personal.
IMO as soon as that personal attack happens the post needs to be stopped and the individual behaving that way blocked. I am here for entertainment, sharing of information, camaraderie and meeting like minded people. Really don't need that ****. Hilly is Hilly, huge long term forum contributor, sometimes a little forthright 
. He won't back down but we do NOT need his or anyone else's intelligence questioned in a mocking patronizing fashion. Take your passive aggressive crap somewhere else.
