Just wondering what everyones experience has been with learning to get onto foil in marginal winds. I'm about 30ish sessions into my wing journey and it's been going pretty well. I can gybe comfortably, swap feet and have started to work on tacks.
One area I feel needs heaps of improvement though is pumping the wing and board onto foil in marginal conditions. I'm 84kgs, using a 5m Ozone Wasp and a 110l 5'8" board. Foil is a SAB 950 (1350cm2). I'm finding that under 15kts, I really struggle to get up easily.
Just wondering if learning this skill set is a long learning curve for most of you and one that you keep improving on and evolving, even after a year, or is it a case of one day it clicks and it's all beer and skittles after that?
For me it was progressive,watched vids and studied the technique but i only improved by trying (and failing) a lot.
My friends who only rig when it is windy can only foil...when it is windy.
So forcing yourself to go in when it is marginal and looking like a monkey on meth :) is the way to go IMHO.
I think I had two steps in my learning curve. The first one came shortly after I watched the video by Robby Naish:
Select to expand quoteDukeSilver said..
Just wondering what everyones experience has been with learning to get onto foil in marginal winds. I'm about 30ish sessions into my wing journey and it's been going pretty well. I can gybe comfortably, swap feet and have started to work on tacks.
One area I feel needs heaps of improvement though is pumping the wing and board onto foil in marginal conditions. I'm 84kgs, using a 5m Ozone Wasp and a 110l 5'8" board. Foil is a SAB 950 (1350cm2). I'm finding that under 15kts, I really struggle to get up easily.
Just wondering if learning this skill set is a long learning curve for most of you and one that you keep improving on and evolving, even after a year, or is it a case of one day it clicks and it's all beer and skittles after that?
I pretty much did the opposite to you , learned to pump up in light winds in the first 20-30 sessions partly to do with not wanting to have a really big wing and foil (also had previously done some foiling behind a small rib). Then took me a while to start tacking and gybing consistently.
Any breeze and I was going out on the water (10-12kts) and that really helped my pumping, after a while you work out what gusts are worth pumping for.
I watch so many YouTube clips but for me I found it is something you just develop a feel for and get better in time.
when I put my footstraps on I felt my feet were in the right place once on foil but would like them both slightly forward for pumping up in light winds , i actually think I can get on foil faster without footstraps.
Once you have some momentum try and think more of building pressure in your hand wing with a slightly circular pump and then feathering your board up with lighter pumps rather than pumping like a nutter.
My biggest tip for pumping in lighter wind is to get the board to STOP before pumping. Too many discussions of pumping or lift involve slowing building speed, then starting to pump the legs -- this doesn't work unless Im on a really big foil (in which case I don't really need to pump). If the board is moving (presumably downwind), you cant build efficient pressure in the wing, and you will never accelerate beyond a certain point.
STOP your downwind momentum, turn the board cross wind (not pointing downwind), reach with your arms fully outstretched, and accelerate quickly with a full sail pump and turn the board downwind on the second wing pump, then start working the leg pump. On wings 5m and smaller I often find Im doing two wing pumps for every one leg pump. Once you get a little liftoff, you need to keep pumping the wing. If you drop off foil, try to quickly "bounce" the board off the water again to pop back onto foil.
This needs to be quick. The slow momentum thing doesnt work. You will know if you are going to get onto foil after 6-8 arm pumps. If you aren't getting any lift at that point, then don't chase it. Stop and try again.
A front footstrap also helps.
Some wings pump better in circles, some need some overhead lifting pump, while others pump better with the back hand pulls (generally find this with lower aspect wings), so you need to figure out whatever works for your equipment. Either way, make sure the arms are fully outstretched, and make sure you are starting from a STOP.
My experience is from not been able to gybe, I've only made a couple. I spend a lot of time climbing back on and getting on foil again. Ive two foils, low and HA, both require different techniques. so I think it's just practicing what works for your kit, YouTube and try it out. I look forward to the time I can consistently gybe, tack and can stay upright on the board lol.
I think you develop the wing and foil pumping skills by deliberately going out with a smaller wing (than you'd normally take) It forces to become more efficient, I guess.
Select to expand quoteVelocicraptor said..
My biggest tip for pumping in lighter wind is to get the board to STOP before pumping. Too many discussions of pumping or lift involve slowing building speed, then starting to pump the legs -- this doesn't work unless Im on a really big foil (in which case I don't really need to pump). If the board is moving (presumably downwind), you cant build efficient pressure in the wing, and you will never accelerate beyond a certain point.
STOP your downwind momentum, turn the board cross wind (not pointing downwind), reach with your arms fully outstretched, and accelerate quickly with a full sail pump and turn the board downwind on the second wing pump, then start working the leg pump. On wings 5m and smaller I often find Im doing two wing pumps for every one leg pump. Once you get a little liftoff, you need to keep pumping the wing. If you drop off foil, try to quickly "bounce" the board off the water again to pop back onto foil.
This needs to be quick. The slow momentum thing doesnt work. You will know if you are going to get onto foil after 6-8 arm pumps. If you aren't getting any lift at that point, then don't chase it. Stop and try again.
A front footstrap also helps.
Some wings pump better in circles, some need some overhead lifting pump, while others pump better with the back hand pulls (generally find this with lower aspect wings), so you need to figure out whatever works for your equipment. Either way, make sure the arms are fully outstretched, and make sure you are starting from a STOP.
Hmm never thought about the STOP position. I'll think about this next time on the water
Select to expand quoteVelocicraptor said..
My biggest tip for pumping in lighter wind is to get the board to STOP before pumping. Too many discussions of pumping or lift involve slowing building speed, then starting to pump the legs -- this doesn't work unless Im on a really big foil (in which case I don't really need to pump). If the board is moving (presumably downwind), you cant build efficient pressure in the wing, and you will never accelerate beyond a certain point.
STOP your downwind momentum, turn the board cross wind (not pointing downwind), reach with your arms fully outstretched, and accelerate quickly with a full sail pump and turn the board downwind on the second wing pump, then start working the leg pump. On wings 5m and smaller I often find Im doing two wing pumps for every one leg pump. Once you get a little liftoff, you need to keep pumping the wing. If you drop off foil, try to quickly "bounce" the board off the water again to pop back onto foil.
This needs to be quick. The slow momentum thing doesnt work. You will know if you are going to get onto foil after 6-8 arm pumps. If you aren't getting any lift at that point, then don't chase it. Stop and try again.
A front footstrap also helps.
Some wings pump better in circles, some need some overhead lifting pump, while others pump better with the back hand pulls (generally find this with lower aspect wings), so you need to figure out whatever works for your equipment. Either way, make sure the arms are fully outstretched, and make sure you are starting from a STOP.
That's a really interesting observation and it makes sense. Will give it a go next time I'm out. I would imagine that the lighter the wind, the more mindful you'd have to be of your starting angle in relation to the wind direction. When it's nuking, it doesn't really matter.
point more down wind than you think you need to, pump the wing quickly to get board speed and then start pumping the foil. At this time I start doing bigger pumps of the wing and then your of to the races.
Don't worry about losing ground when you point down wind as you will easily make it back when on foil.
Select to expand quoteDukeSilver said..Velocicraptor said..
My biggest tip for pumping in lighter wind is to get the board to STOP before pumping. Too many discussions of pumping or lift involve slowing building speed, then starting to pump the legs -- this doesn't work unless Im on a really big foil (in which case I don't really need to pump). If the board is moving (presumably downwind), you cant build efficient pressure in the wing, and you will never accelerate beyond a certain point.
STOP your downwind momentum, turn the board cross wind (not pointing downwind), reach with your arms fully outstretched, and accelerate quickly with a full sail pump and turn the board downwind on the second wing pump, then start working the leg pump. On wings 5m and smaller I often find Im doing two wing pumps for every one leg pump. Once you get a little liftoff, you need to keep pumping the wing. If you drop off foil, try to quickly "bounce" the board off the water again to pop back onto foil.
This needs to be quick. The slow momentum thing doesnt work. You will know if you are going to get onto foil after 6-8 arm pumps. If you aren't getting any lift at that point, then don't chase it. Stop and try again.
A front footstrap also helps.
Some wings pump better in circles, some need some overhead lifting pump, while others pump better with the back hand pulls (generally find this with lower aspect wings), so you need to figure out whatever works for your equipment. Either way, make sure the arms are fully outstretched, and make sure you are starting from a STOP.
That's a really interesting observation and it makes sense. Will give it a go next time I'm out. I would imagine that the lighter the wind, the more mindful you'd have to be of your starting angle in relation to the wind direction. When it's nuking, it doesn't really matter.
I am not in agreement with stopping. Board speed is what gets you up. A couple of light pumps will get the board moving, then pump more forcefully when you have a gust and feel the power in the wing. I agree that heading downwind too soon will negate the power of the wind. Go 90* to the wind and turn slightly downwind as you gain speed and lift off.
It also depends on the foil you're on. A very different technique is needed for a small HA foil vs. a bigger mid-aspect. Pumping the legs does not work well for the former while you can Ollie up onto foil easily with the latter.
Select to expand quoteVelocicraptor said..
My biggest tip for pumping in lighter wind is to get the board to STOP before pumping. Too many discussions of pumping or lift involve slowing building speed, then starting to pump the legs -- this doesn't work unless Im on a really big foil (in which case I don't really need to pump). If the board is moving (presumably downwind), you cant build efficient pressure in the wing, and you will never accelerate beyond a certain point.
STOP your downwind momentum, turn the board cross wind (not pointing downwind), reach with your arms fully outstretched, and accelerate quickly with a full sail pump and turn the board downwind on the second wing pump, then start working the leg pump. On wings 5m and smaller I often find Im doing two wing pumps for every one leg pump. Once you get a little liftoff, you need to keep pumping the wing. If you drop off foil, try to quickly "bounce" the board off the water again to pop back onto foil.
This needs to be quick. The slow momentum thing doesnt work. You will know if you are going to get onto foil after 6-8 arm pumps. If you aren't getting any lift at that point, then don't chase it. Stop and try again.
A front footstrap also helps.
Some wings pump better in circles, some need some overhead lifting pump, while others pump better with the back hand pulls (generally find this with lower aspect wings), so you need to figure out whatever works for your equipment. Either way, make sure the arms are fully outstretched, and make sure you are starting from a STOP.
You are obviously not using a small high aspec foil are you?
Different foils need different techniques, the one you describe definitely wouldn't work for something like the 899 which absolutely needs some board speed.
For a big low aspect foils yes your technique may be fine.
Thanks for the replies guys. Very interesting. The SAB Foil 950 is more a med. high aspect rather than full high aspect. It doesn't really like to be rushed up onto foil at too much of an angle and will drop quickly if that happens. I probably just need to bite the bullet and get a big light wind wing like the SAB W1100 at 2100cm2. Or maybe the W1110. The Axis HA wings are tempting me right now too.
I'd recommend GoFoil if you're spending new dollars, amazing foils for carving. I use to be on sabfoil, then Armstrong and finally found GOFoil.
no regrets changing whatsoever.
GT1250 or RS1150 with FTS14.5 tail
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..
I'd recommend GoFoil if you're spending new dollars, amazing foils for carving. I use to be on sabfoil, then Armstrong and finally found GOFoil.
no regrets changing whatsoever.
GT1250 or RS1150 with FTS14.5 tail
Thanks. Will try and demo.
Select to expand quotetightlines said..Velocicraptor said..
My biggest tip for pumping in lighter wind is to get the board to STOP before pumping. Too many discussions of pumping or lift involve slowing building speed, then starting to pump the legs -- this doesn't work unless Im on a really big foil (in which case I don't really need to pump). If the board is moving (presumably downwind), you cant build efficient pressure in the wing, and you will never accelerate beyond a certain point.
STOP your downwind momentum, turn the board cross wind (not pointing downwind), reach with your arms fully outstretched, and accelerate quickly with a full sail pump and turn the board downwind on the second wing pump, then start working the leg pump. On wings 5m and smaller I often find Im doing two wing pumps for every one leg pump. Once you get a little liftoff, you need to keep pumping the wing. If you drop off foil, try to quickly "bounce" the board off the water again to pop back onto foil.
This needs to be quick. The slow momentum thing doesnt work. You will know if you are going to get onto foil after 6-8 arm pumps. If you aren't getting any lift at that point, then don't chase it. Stop and try again.
A front footstrap also helps.
Some wings pump better in circles, some need some overhead lifting pump, while others pump better with the back hand pulls (generally find this with lower aspect wings), so you need to figure out whatever works for your equipment. Either way, make sure the arms are fully outstretched, and make sure you are starting from a STOP.
You are obviously not using a small high aspec foil are you?
Different foils need different techniques, the one you describe definitely wouldn't work for something like the 899 which absolutely needs some board speed.
For a big low aspect foils yes your technique may be fine.
I use a ~7AR, ~1100 sqcm foil (mid aspect and not huge) most of the time, but this works on foils larger and smaller. It's all about getting a full wing of wind and accelerating, versus slowly building speed. You can't effectively pump the wing if you are running downwind (reducing apparent wind).
This was the biggest breakthrough I had in pumping in light wind. Works for me.
