Looking to grab my first Parawing and deciding between a 4m Pocket Rocket or BRM Kanaha. What are people's thoughts between the two?
The BRM will get going easier in lighter wind due to its lower aspect ratio and lighter cloth. The Ozone will probably work better in higher wind ranges when you will change to a smaller size on the BRM.
The BRM will be easier to stow when downwinding due to lighter canopy cloth thus a smaller package.
The below is what I posted on another thread on the same topic.
I want to clarify something. in light wind, 10 to 15 knots, your low aspect downwind approach won't give you bottom end as you quickly release pressure from the lines with each little bump. In this light scenario apparent wind is required for best low end success and line length and aspect is king as long as you have the technique to make the most of the potential power.
In stronger winds, over 15 knots at least, the low aspect will help to go direct downwind no doubt as yes it naturally sits deeper in the window as you point out. In this scenario if you passively let your ozone fly at the edge of the window you will be disadvantaged. If you fly it deep in the window with those longer lines you will get a serious power spike as it travels through the window.
On toe side the ozone pulls me straight down wind in over 15 knots.
My point is bottom end in good wind is very different to bottom end in light wind and bottom end once foiling is also different to bottom end to get up. The higher aspect is better in all circumstances except good wind straight downwind. The funny thing was the original brm could not be pumped compared to the flow and ozone and therefore the flow very quickly got market traction over the brm.
in all flying circumstances higher aspect is king where power is minimal at the bottom end and efficiency is important.
This really summed it up well. I haven't ridden the Ozone yet but everything he said about the BRM (I was on Ka'a) was accurate for me.
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..
This really summed it up well. I haven't ridden the Ozone yet but everything he said about the BRM (I was on Ka'a) was accurate for me.
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Honestly, I'm sorry to anyone who considers this valuable in their purchases. There is not much objective information; mainly personal opinions, which are valid but not conclusive.
I hope somebody will finally come up with a more precise review, weights, upwind angles, line lengths, package volume, wind range, etc.
In the end, all paragliders work, and all will fold at a certain upwind angle.
Super reasonable request and. it's extremely rare that we ever even get to see a simple A vs B review in the wind industry. I'd love to get all the info you listed but am unsure I've ever even seen a valid upwind angle report on any piece of foiling gear?
So yes, it's tough to get everything we'd want from every review but I thought this did a good job of being fair and covering the basics that are likely most important for early adopter buyers.
I agree I think that gav@hydrofoiling has done a great job with his videos they have helped me.
I recently bought the Ozone Pocket Rocket 3.6 after thinking long and hard about BRM Kanaha. In the end it came down to availability and price. I would assume the majority of people are in the same boat with their first parawing. Both are top line products.
Ozone Pocket Rocket 3.6 from my local shop in Sydney $1429.00 AUD
BRM Kanaha 4.0 $1788.00 AUD shipped from Maui and I'm not even sure if that includes our 10%GST which is usually payable on landing.
For something I expect to be worth nothing after a year this makes a difference.
Select to expand quoteKB7 said..
I agree I think that gav@hydrofoiling has done a great job with his videos they have helped me.
I recently bought the Ozone Pocket Rocket 3.6 after thinking long and hard about BRM Kanaha. In the end it came down to availability and price. I would assume the majority of people are in the same boat with their first parawing. Both are top line products.
Ozone Pocket Rocket 3.6 from my local shop in Sydney $1429.00 AUD
BRM Kanaha 4.0 $1788.00 AUD shipped from Maui and I'm not even sure if that includes our 10%GST which is usually payable on landing.
For something I expect to be worth nothing after a year this makes a difference.
I've bought five wings from BRM and can say with confidence that you don't pay anything additional in the BRM price. It includes all shipping and duties. You can also get 5% discount using a referral code (feel free to hit me up for one!} and there is a generous rewards program too which has meant you will rarely find yourself paying more than the Ozone. Basically you get US$100 or US$200 your second purchase. Delivery is super fast too. So I wouldn't let price or convenience be a major factor in deciding. Support from BRM is great too. Had two V1 handles replaced with new version for free for example. Arrived in five days to Perth WA.
I wish I could have caught the sizes but there were a couple guys out on BRM and Ozone parawings today. About 30 knots of wind. I followed the Ozone guy on an upwind for a while and will say that his upwind progress seemed solid while being unhooked which I compared to me being unhooked and fully lit on my Ocean Rodeo 3mAA wing. Definitely didn't look fun though. I never saw the BRM in flight and cruised by the rider as he prone paddled back to shore, asked if he needed help, and he said in a jolly tone "all good just crazy overpowered!" The last I saw of the Ozone rider looked like he unfortunately was all knotted up. One or two people stopped to help him but I never saw if he got back on foil or not.
Everyone sure seems to be having fun going through the learning pains which is a good sign! Looking forward to getting my Ozones and giving them a shot in comparison to the BRMs
I had a run out on an ozone 4.3, I was using a3m wing but wind dropped. got on foil then massive overpowered.
my takeaway is, not the same range, tricky in gusty winds, can still get to shore when needed.
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..
I wish I could have caught the sizes but there were a couple guys out on BRM and Ozone parawings today. About 30 knots of wind. I followed the Ozone guy on an upwind for a while and will say that his upwind progress seemed solid while being unhooked which I compared to me being unhooked and fully lit on my Ocean Rodeo 3mAA wing. Definitely didn't look fun though. I never saw the BRM in flight and cruised by the rider as he prone paddled back to shore, asked if he needed help, and he said in a jolly tone "all good just crazy overpowered!" The last I saw of the Ozone rider looked like he unfortunately was all knotted up. One or two people stopped to help him but I never saw if he got back on foil or not.
Everyone sure seems to be having fun going through the learning pains which is a good sign! Looking forward to getting my Ozones and giving them a shot in comparison to the BRMs
Did some reaches on my 3M Ensis Pwing yesterday at the hatchery but ultimately was uncomfortably overpowered. Went to my 2.5M Strike and had a nice long session. There were several other Pwings out though, at least two Ozone, one 1.9 and a 2.4M doing well w/ upwind / DW. It was particularly gusty with sustained low 30's, despite only showing an average of 22ish much of the day.
Select to expand quoteThatspec said..BWalnut said..
I wish I could have caught the sizes but there were a couple guys out on BRM and Ozone parawings today. About 30 knots of wind. I followed the Ozone guy on an upwind for a while and will say that his upwind progress seemed solid while being unhooked which I compared to me being unhooked and fully lit on my Ocean Rodeo 3mAA wing. Definitely didn't look fun though. I never saw the BRM in flight and cruised by the rider as he prone paddled back to shore, asked if he needed help, and he said in a jolly tone "all good just crazy overpowered!" The last I saw of the Ozone rider looked like he unfortunately was all knotted up. One or two people stopped to help him but I never saw if he got back on foil or not.
Everyone sure seems to be having fun going through the learning pains which is a good sign! Looking forward to getting my Ozones and giving them a shot in comparison to the BRMs
Did some reaches on my 3M Ensis Pwing yesterday at the hatchery but ultimately was uncomfortably overpowered. Went to my 2.5M Strike and had a nice long session. There were several other Pwings out though, at least two Ozone, one 1.9 and a 2.4M doing well w/ upwind / DW. It was particularly gusty with sustained low 30's, despite only showing an average of 22ish much of the day.
I wonder what the foil, board, rider size, and skill differences were with folks choosing the 1.9m vs 2.4m in those conditions. Those are the two sizes I ordered. I figure if the Ozone 2.4m has anywhere near the low end the 2.3m Ka'a had then I should have zero issues using the 1.9m in sustained low 30s. I'd agree, gauges have felt particularly underreported throughout the whole river recently. Not sure what's up with that this spring, I've been relying on my eyes to pick wing sizes over the gauges recently.
As a 3m flow dwing rider looking for a bigger parawing I'm put off by the bulkiness (and QC/comms) of another larger Flow, and was hoping the Ozone PR 4.3m would be the fit. However Ive seen it is fairly massive in line length and Im starting to turn my eye to the v2 Kahana as that appears to hit the brief.
Select to expand quotePowis said..
As a 3m flow dwing rider looking for a bigger parawing I'm put off by the bulkiness (and QC/comms) of another larger Flow, and was hoping the Ozone PR 4.3m would be the fit. However Ive seen it is fairly massive in line length and Im starting to turn my eye to the v2 Kahana as that appears to hit the brief.
Welcome to try my 4.2 Ka'a but yeh I think you might really like the Kanaha even more perhaps. Either way I'm so enjoying them. Going the Ozone I'm sure would be great but I can see you wanting to shorten the lines on the larger one.
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..Thatspec said..BWalnut said..
I wish I could have caught the sizes but there were a couple guys out on BRM and Ozone parawings today. About 30 knots of wind. I followed the Ozone guy on an upwind for a while and will say that his upwind progress seemed solid while being unhooked which I compared to me being unhooked and fully lit on my Ocean Rodeo 3mAA wing. Definitely didn't look fun though. I never saw the BRM in flight and cruised by the rider as he prone paddled back to shore, asked if he needed help, and he said in a jolly tone "all good just crazy overpowered!" The last I saw of the Ozone rider looked like he unfortunately was all knotted up. One or two people stopped to help him but I never saw if he got back on foil or not.
Everyone sure seems to be having fun going through the learning pains which is a good sign! Looking forward to getting my Ozones and giving them a shot in comparison to the BRMs
Did some reaches on my 3M Ensis Pwing yesterday at the hatchery but ultimately was uncomfortably overpowered. Went to my 2.5M Strike and had a nice long session. There were several other Pwings out though, at least two Ozone, one 1.9 and a 2.4M doing well w/ upwind / DW. It was particularly gusty with sustained low 30's, despite only showing an average of 22ish much of the day.
I wonder what the foil, board, rider size, and skill differences were with folks choosing the 1.9m vs 2.4m in those conditions. Those are the two sizes I ordered. I figure if the Ozone 2.4m has anywhere near the low end the 2.3m Ka'a had then I should have zero issues using the 1.9m in sustained low 30s. I'd agree, gauges have felt particularly underreported throughout the whole river recently. Not sure what's up with that this spring, I've been relying on my eyes to pick wing sizes over the gauges recently.
Yeah, the 1.9 rider was a woman (I'm guessing) was probably 150# or less and a solid rider, can't speak to the board and foil though. I watched a guy on the 1.9 Ozone the next day struggling a bit while another guy was doing well on the 1.7 POW. I finally got tired of getting my ass wooped on the 3M yesterday (6/12) and went to Pure Stoke (Ozone dealer in HR) to buy the 1.9 Ozone but when I got there they had received new stock with some custom colored 2.4's.
Long story short, glad I bought the 2.4M. Drove strait out to Rufus where it was averaging 35 mph gusting to 46 (Maryhill meter) and the 2.4 was just solid and very well behaved. The gusts were a handful but I still had to bear off at times to get through the lulls so I feel like the 1.9 would have been more of a struggle than I'd like. Of course we do get stronger days with gusts into the 50's but they are more rare and for those I'll just wing or downwind. For reference I'm probably close to 200# in a wet 4/3 on a 10.5# custom 5'10 84L and a Code 980S.
Looks like the 2.4 and 4.3 Ozone should cover the whole range for me in the Gorge on the 84L board.If I still had a DW board could probably just use the 3.6 as my light wind solution.
Select to expand quoteThatspec said..BWalnut said..Thatspec said..BWalnut said..
I wish I could have caught the sizes but there were a couple guys out on BRM and Ozone parawings today. About 30 knots of wind. I followed the Ozone guy on an upwind for a while and will say that his upwind progress seemed solid while being unhooked which I compared to me being unhooked and fully lit on my Ocean Rodeo 3mAA wing. Definitely didn't look fun though. I never saw the BRM in flight and cruised by the rider as he prone paddled back to shore, asked if he needed help, and he said in a jolly tone "all good just crazy overpowered!" The last I saw of the Ozone rider looked like he unfortunately was all knotted up. One or two people stopped to help him but I never saw if he got back on foil or not.
Everyone sure seems to be having fun going through the learning pains which is a good sign! Looking forward to getting my Ozones and giving them a shot in comparison to the BRMs
Did some reaches on my 3M Ensis Pwing yesterday at the hatchery but ultimately was uncomfortably overpowered. Went to my 2.5M Strike and had a nice long session. There were several other Pwings out though, at least two Ozone, one 1.9 and a 2.4M doing well w/ upwind / DW. It was particularly gusty with sustained low 30's, despite only showing an average of 22ish much of the day.
I wonder what the foil, board, rider size, and skill differences were with folks choosing the 1.9m vs 2.4m in those conditions. Those are the two sizes I ordered. I figure if the Ozone 2.4m has anywhere near the low end the 2.3m Ka'a had then I should have zero issues using the 1.9m in sustained low 30s. I'd agree, gauges have felt particularly underreported throughout the whole river recently. Not sure what's up with that this spring, I've been relying on my eyes to pick wing sizes over the gauges recently.
Yeah, the 1.9 rider was a woman (I'm guessing) was probably 150# or less and a solid rider, can't speak to the board and foil though. I watched a guy on the 1.9 Ozone the next day struggling a bit while another guy was doing well on the 1.7 POW. I finally got tired of getting my ass wooped on the 3M yesterday (6/12) and went to Pure Stoke (Ozone dealer in HR) to buy the 1.9 Ozone but when I got there they had received new stock with some custom colored 2.4's.
Long story short, glad I bought the 2.4M. Drove strait out to Rufus where it was averaging 35 mph gusting to 46 (Maryhill meter) and the 2.4 was just solid and very well behaved. The gusts were a handful but I still had to bear off at times to get through the lulls so I feel like the 1.9 would have been more of a struggle than I'd like. Of course we do get stronger days with gusts into the 50's but they are more rare and for those I'll just wing or downwind. For reference I'm probably close to 200# in a wet 4/3 on a 10.5# custom 5'10 84L and a Code 980S.
Looks like the 2.4 and 4.3 Ozone should cover the whole range for me in the Gorge on the 84L board.If I still had a DW board could probably just use the 3.6 as my light wind solution.
1.9 rider may have been Wren who is pretty full time pro/competitor and uses the 1.9m
Did you finish your session at Maryhill yesterday? Someone was getting out on a 2.4m Ozone with cool coloring when I was getting in. I had a blast out there yesterday, 193lbs dry, 2.5m OR Glide A, 77l 5'11"x20" Custom Carver, and Silk 650 which I'm using to train for the parawing while I wait for my Pocket Rockets to show up.
A buddy struggled with the 2.4m Pocket Rocket while riding with me the other day and as best I could tell it just looked like that wing doesn't pull downwind as much as the BRM does on your water starts. I'll be intrigued to see how it works out for me with the 1.9m and 2.4m vs the 2.3m Ka'a I had.
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..Thatspec said..BWalnut said..Thatspec said..BWalnut said..
I wish I could have caught the sizes but there were a couple guys out on BRM and Ozone parawings today. About 30 knots of wind. I followed the Ozone guy on an upwind for a while and will say that his upwind progress seemed solid while being unhooked which I compared to me being unhooked and fully lit on my Ocean Rodeo 3mAA wing. Definitely didn't look fun though. I never saw the BRM in flight and cruised by the rider as he prone paddled back to shore, asked if he needed help, and he said in a jolly tone "all good just crazy overpowered!" The last I saw of the Ozone rider looked like he unfortunately was all knotted up. One or two people stopped to help him but I never saw if he got back on foil or not.
Everyone sure seems to be having fun going through the learning pains which is a good sign! Looking forward to getting my Ozones and giving them a shot in comparison to the BRMs
Did some reaches on my 3M Ensis Pwing yesterday at the hatchery but ultimately was uncomfortably overpowered. Went to my 2.5M Strike and had a nice long session. There were several other Pwings out though, at least two Ozone, one 1.9 and a 2.4M doing well w/ upwind / DW. It was particularly gusty with sustained low 30's, despite only showing an average of 22ish much of the day.
I wonder what the foil, board, rider size, and skill differences were with folks choosing the 1.9m vs 2.4m in those conditions. Those are the two sizes I ordered. I figure if the Ozone 2.4m has anywhere near the low end the 2.3m Ka'a had then I should have zero issues using the 1.9m in sustained low 30s. I'd agree, gauges have felt particularly underreported throughout the whole river recently. Not sure what's up with that this spring, I've been relying on my eyes to pick wing sizes over the gauges recently.
Yeah, the 1.9 rider was a woman (I'm guessing) was probably 150# or less and a solid rider, can't speak to the board and foil though. I watched a guy on the 1.9 Ozone the next day struggling a bit while another guy was doing well on the 1.7 POW. I finally got tired of getting my ass wooped on the 3M yesterday (6/12) and went to Pure Stoke (Ozone dealer in HR) to buy the 1.9 Ozone but when I got there they had received new stock with some custom colored 2.4's.
Long story short, glad I bought the 2.4M. Drove strait out to Rufus where it was averaging 35 mph gusting to 46 (Maryhill meter) and the 2.4 was just solid and very well behaved. The gusts were a handful but I still had to bear off at times to get through the lulls so I feel like the 1.9 would have been more of a struggle than I'd like. Of course we do get stronger days with gusts into the 50's but they are more rare and for those I'll just wing or downwind. For reference I'm probably close to 200# in a wet 4/3 on a 10.5# custom 5'10 84L and a Code 980S.
Looks like the 2.4 and 4.3 Ozone should cover the whole range for me in the Gorge on the 84L board.If I still had a DW board could probably just use the 3.6 as my light wind solution.
1.9 rider may have been Wren who is pretty full time pro/competitor and uses the 1.9m
Did you finish your session at Maryhill yesterday? Someone was getting out on a 2.4m Ozone with cool coloring when I was getting in. I had a blast out there yesterday, 193lbs dry, 2.5m OR Glide A, 77l 5'11"x20" Custom Carver, and Silk 650 which I'm using to train for the parawing while I wait for my Pocket Rockets to show up.
A buddy struggled with the 2.4m Pocket Rocket while riding with me the other day and as best I could tell it just looked like that wing doesn't pull downwind as much as the BRM does on your water starts. I'll be intrigued to see how it works out for me with the 1.9m and 2.4m vs the 2.3m Ka'a I had.
Out of interest, what happened to your Ka'a.
i have a PR 4.3 and Ka'a 5.4, but not enough time on them due to no wind. they feel two very different wings though.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..
Out of interest, what happened to your Ka'a.
i have a PR 4.3 and Ka'a 5.4, but not enough time on them due to no wind. they feel two very different wings though.
Short story, I was getting overpowered, struggled with upwind travel, bar size was too small for me. So, I sold it to fund the Pocket Rocket order.
A much more involved/nuanced explanation:
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..BWalnut said..
Thatspec said..
1.9 rider may have been Wren who is pretty full time pro/competitor and uses the 1.9m
Did you finish your session at Maryhill yesterday? Someone was getting out on a 2.4m Ozone with cool coloring when I was getting in. I had a blast out there yesterday, 193lbs dry, 2.5m OR Glide A, 77l 5'11"x20" Custom Carver, and Silk 650 which I'm using to train for the parawing while I wait for my Pocket Rockets to show up.
A buddy struggled with the 2.4m Pocket Rocket while riding with me the other day and as best I could tell it just looked like that wing doesn't pull downwind as much as the BRM does on your water starts. I'll be intrigued to see how it works out for me with the 1.9m and 2.4m vs the 2.3m Ka'a I had.
Yeah, I went to Maryhill on the 12th. Was headed to Rufus then changed my mind. The thought of parking in that dusty rock pile vs a shady windless parking spot surrounded by lush green lawn won out
...Waves were just fine and only one other guy out. I was only out maybe and hour and 15 minutes and wanted more but... multiple days in a row are wearing me down. Need to be fresh and sharp in those conditions, seriously thinking about getting a helmet.
That Maryhill meter may be reading high or the Swell city meter is reading low (or both) because yesterday I could not use the 2.4 PR at the Hatchery around 1:00. The sensor was reading average 32 mph 42ish gusts. I watched another guy on a 1.9 charging out initially, looking good but then was paddling in five minutes later. Maybe just knotted up. Another guy I know who is solid, couldn't start his 2.3 Ka'a for maybe 10 minutes and multiple tries. Definitely stronger wind yesterday but a lower sensor reading. Continuous spray off the waves which was more intermittent at Maryhill.
Still happy with the 2.4 choice though, not sure if I really want to Pwing (at least upwind) in conditions like yesterdays. I don't use a leash and felt like if I let go it might go 100 meters+ and sink before I could get to it. Packed up and went down to Luhr Jensen and had a nice 2.4 session, the sandbar meter was showing something like 15 average which was also obviously wrong. Did have to shlog out a bit but the channel was good and strong.
So basically, I still haven't a clue what the actual range of the 2.4 PR is for me
Haha okay yeah I almost hollered at you when I saw the 2.4m to ask if it was okay but I figured screaming downwind in 30 knots or so wasn't the best hello. Totally agree though, lush grass, running water, park rangers checking on your gear.... better than the dust bowl.
I think the gauges are all a bit wacky this year TBH. I've seen the Hatch sensor read low but it was obviously nuking. I've seen the Maryhill sensor read high and then I swam back in. I've been relying more on what I see on the water than on my phone this season. Just gotta get my PR's and figure it out!
For what it's worth, you looked like you were slaying it out there and made me feel stoked I had ordered the same size!
Well, I got my first day on the rockets and have to admit it's a done deal for me. My first day on the 3m I logged more mileage than I did over three days with the BRM's. I only stopped because the wind died. I think the easiest way to put it is that I felt confident in the PR the entire time where, conversely, I was pretty much anxious about the Ka'a the entire time.
The Ozones upwind, depower, ability to absorb gusts, all won me over. This is a parawing that inspired me to fly it. I prefer the "earn your turns" upwind downwind vibes on my runs and this get's the job done for sure.
The BRM is still king of low end and fast retract. Downwind weapon for sure. I just can't see myself using it if there isn't a car shuttle involved.
I'm an early adopter to PW. Started w/ a few BRMs- Ka'a 3.6, Kanaha 2.5. I am considering buying an Ozone PR for upwind/downwind Maui conditions- debating a 3.0. Any input on wind range/ comfortable max for a 95kg ride? Not really feeling doing upwind/downwind gusting in the 40s- that's a DW day as I see it. But for a typical summer day, avg 28 gusting 35 would a PR 3.0 work?
Why cant they not design a version with good range and depower? Flysurfer and even Peter Lynn kites had this option for many years, seems the foil industry has devolved. ????
Select to expand quoteVenomguy said..
Why cant they not design a version with good range and depower? Flysurfer and even Peter Lynn kites had this option for many years, seems the foil industry has devolved. ????
Not sure what you're requesting here? I can't speak for the other brands but the Ozone PR has insane range, especially at the top end.
You just need to stop thinking about it in terms of depower, and thinking more about using that energy to point further and further upwind.
No they aren't like kites where you can sheet out, and they aren't really like wings either where you just loosen the angle of the wing with your bottom hand. With PWs you have to dig your heels in, grit your teeth, and point the board upwind.
Has anyone maxed out the 2.4m? I was pushing it in 40 knots yesterday and harnessed in, upwind, water starts, all fine. Gybes felt a little spicy but not unreasonable. I've had the 3m at 33 knots and that also felt like it had plenty of top end left in it.
Harnessed-in I have yet to find the top-end of many of the sizes. It's incredible how fast you can rocket upwind on these things.
The issues come when you unharness to perform maneuvers, try to pack away, or just sitting on the water. Then it's not so fun to be overpowered.
