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New foils for The Struggle

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Created by kook123 23 days ago, 15 Apr 2026
kook123
151 posts
15 Apr 2026 12:23AM
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Intermediate wing foiler here who is foil brained, but I continue to find foiling a real challenge, even 3 years in on inland lakes/reservoirs with crappy wind and a short season (just getting my jibes down, suck at pumping and foot switches).

I'm 59yo and 65kg, riding a 72L Omen Flux V1, I'm currently on Uni Progressions (mostly P170, but also have P140 and P200). I chose these foils because they have a reputation for being all around user friendly, with good low end (for my crappy wind). They seem to deliver that. Good...

I'm wondering what all the foil developments in the past few years might get me if I switched to new foils...most of the focus/marketing... and discussion on forums is about chasing high end performance, and yes, I'll take performance, like more glide and better efficiency and upwind ability, lower stall speed, etc. as long as that equates to making this sport easier for me. I'm just starting to learn to ride swell, not cranking turns in big surf, nor can I downwind yet of course...I just retired and will be spending most of this season in the Gorge, so I see this as the year to progress or move on...

What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?

UisceBeatha
140 posts
15 Apr 2026 3:39PM
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What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?
There is only one variable: "TIME ON FOIL"

I'd be stoked with your kit, sounds good to me. However without being too cheeky I would breakdown what you are having trouble with and access in this order, is it my technique or is it my gear?

Of course, if you have money to spend, just go for it, nothing beats the new stuff, we wouldn't have an industry without people buying!

beached57
143 posts
15 Apr 2026 8:07PM
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your gear seems fine. as prev responder said: practice. for example, i've been winging for years now and still struggle with foot switches. why? cuz i almost never do them. once i'm on my preferred side, i just don't switch, so i don't practice them, so i don't get better. but in my local conditions, i've been forced to deal with shore break, rough seas, breaking waves, gusty winds, etc., and all this has forced me to become better. don't be discouraged, just keep going out and you'll naturally get better.

kook123
151 posts
15 Apr 2026 10:21PM
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UisceBeatha said..
What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?
There is only one variable: "TIME ON FOIL"




Agree 100% that that is the main variable, and I'll be getting a lot more this season.

But I also know my first foil and wing both sucked and made learning more difficult, so its not like gear doesn't make a difference. Meanwhile, lots of hype at least about foils getting better and better, but not that much of the discussion is in terms of average joe intermediate foiling challenges that I see...just looking for more of that

Seastudent
84 posts
15 Apr 2026 10:33PM
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I have bought a lot of gear thinking it would help my progression. Maybe in some ways it did. But pretty minor percentages. I found I had to plan on flailing and failing to progress. I also have light and puffy winds where I sail and it seems like a hard won accomplishment to get on foil and cruise. Just mowing the lawn far enough to let my heart rate come back down seems necessary. When I scheduled ten foot swap attempts per session is when it came together. The wipeouts were budgeted and acceptable. More than ten and you're just beating a dead horse. Your senses, thoughts, and body come together and are more effective than cool new stuff.
That being said cool new stuff is being delivered on Monday.

UisceBeatha
140 posts
15 Apr 2026 11:42PM
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kook123 said..

UisceBeatha said..
What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?
There is only one variable: "TIME ON FOIL"





Agree 100% that that is the main variable, and I'll be getting a lot more this season.

But I also know my first foil and wing both sucked and made learning more difficult, so its not like gear doesn't make a difference. Meanwhile, lots of hype at least about foils getting better and better, but not that much of the discussion is in terms of average joe intermediate foiling challenges that I see...just looking for more of that


True, but I didn't say gear doesn't make a difference. 1) if you can't get on foil - then yes, change up the gear. 2) if you are seeking glide and your current foil is low or medium aspect then yes, change it up. 3) if you can't tack or gybe, have you a **** bagged out wing - yes maybe change it up. However put experienced foilers on old kit, they can still do it all. The limitation is in your ability not in the gear. I say this having started 6 years ago on the most terrible kit going!

Generally the hype in foils getting better and better is in the "feels", they "feel" more stable, faster, nicer feedback in turns, breach better, etc etc. The hype around the P170 when it came out was off the charts! and to this day its still a great foil - for all the "feels" :-) But the thing is you can't enjoy the "feels" till you are experienced enough to ride the foil like its an extension of your body. I surfed for 20 years, the first couple of year foiling felt awkward but man, now it feels just like riding a surfboard/snowboard, when you get to that point the hype is about the feeling.

martyj4
536 posts
16 Apr 2026 11:15AM
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As others have said, it's likely gear is not going to make a significant difference.
I've taught lots of people. So many foilers when they struggle look for a change in gear to make their progress better. It's rarely the problem unless they're on really old outdated gear or stuff that's way too advanced. Without knowning much about Uni gear, it sounds like others say that setup isn't bad.
That said, if you are struggling with foot switches, why is that? Do you get bucked off? Is your foot placement inconsistent? If you place your feet pretty well but are being thrown, then put on a bigger front foil, tail or a longer fuse to get more stability into the setup. It has made a huge difference to me. What are the local water conditions like? Is it choppy with confused swell? If so, that just escalates the difficulty.
I've been at this for 8 years now and still don't have tacks or pumping down pat. Still can't ride big swell consistently. But I love this sport and won't be giving up. Sometimes there are things you just need to grind away at. Time on water is the biggest winner here.
Hang in there.

oy_wind
38 posts
18 Apr 2026 2:08PM
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For sure, time on water, as many have replied. But I sense you have an itch to get some new gear. And nothing wrong with that, I love buying new gear. For me, gear is part of fun.

I am for sure not objective, and personally I have not tried anything else than F4 the last years. But I have lots of wingfoil buddies that have changed to the F4 Orca foils, and base my input on the feedback from them.

Around where I live, Bergen, Norway, there are 5-6 guys using Orca 685 or 800 for pure "moving the lawn" wingfoiling. Myself, I use it for upwind/downwind wing, and now parawing.

There is a lot of talk about the performance of the Orcas on forums, for downwind. And very little talk about how it works for winging.
All the feedback I have from my buddies is that it is super easy to use for winging. And I feel the same. With the 800 or 685 I can tack in almost any situation. It is so forgiving, mixed with low end and glide.

A buddy of mine that was on a large Starboard foil tried my Julitta 85 with the Orca 685. He was so sceptical going out. Went out for 20 minutes, came back, and the board had not touched the water. Super suprised.

800 is for sure the biggest needed for winging at your weight. And you don't really need any other size either.
Pair it with a 170 S tail for good stability.

I am 87kg, and my buddies are between 70 and 90kg.

DWF
714 posts
19 Apr 2026 12:02AM
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based on this comment "just getting my jibes down, suck at pumping and foot switches"

We need to ignore the hype, and keep it real..

F4 Orcas.I say no. While the wing is wide and you would think this makes it extra stable in foot switches, the narrow tips offer less stability at lower speeds doing foot switches. Also less stability climbing back on the board, which you're likely doing a lot. It's also likely why it rolls so well into turns.

Code S series wings. More stable foot switches. Board stability strong from the foil. Can be ordered with long fuse to make progress easy. This would be an upgrade. Great wings to learn pumping, although not the same glide as the Orca. All still better than the Progression.

Please note, when you get into these foils that carry a lot of speed into jibes, people still not masters of the jibe, can struggle with the windwing skill needed. They sail into the windwing and body slam it. On the plus side, you will always sail away in the opposite direction with a lot speed, if you don't screw up the windwing handling.


oy_wind
38 posts
26 Apr 2026 2:20PM
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DWF said..
based on this comment "just getting my jibes down, suck at pumping and foot switches"

We need to ignore the hype, and keep it real..



Have you tried the Orca 685 or 800 with a 170 tail? Or do you base it on the specifications?

Last week I sold some of my gear second hand to a buddy. A Julitta 85l, 75 mast, and a 170xs tail. And he would order a suitable front wing.
He is a windsurfer that can wingfoil stable in a straight line, but haven't cracked the jibe. 65kg, so we need to keep that in mind.

He tried the 685, from another friend and loved it. Tried the 1050, and couldn't handle it. My advice to him was a 800, but he felt so good on the 685 that he ordered that.

The 170 tail comes in different fuse lengths. XS being the shortest.

kook123
151 posts
26 Apr 2026 8:46PM
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I appreciate all the well intentioned coaching, and it is good to be reminded that I could be more focussed and consistent in practicing the things I struggle with and to keep putting in the time...but I really wanted to talk about foils...

Coincidentally, one of my bigger breakthroughs in learning to jibe was focussing my attention on my foil ("surf the foil" I tell myself) and that shift really cut down the number of times I either breached or got wiped out by a wave while jibing, and then it was suddenly no longer a challenge.

If nothing else, at least some of the language around a few new foils (e.g. from Hydrocraft and Omen) address making foiling easier/more approachable, in addition to or as a feature of the performance gains. Here is Matt from Hydrocraft from a thread on the Progression Project Forum:

"From our perspective, the magic of the Helix foil is how it pairs a very pitch-stable, easy-to-ride front wing with the efficiency gains of modern airfoil design and high-end construction.The focus with this setup was finding performance improvements that don't come at the cost of usability. Thinner mast, thinner fuselage, and cleaner connections with fewer seams and bolt heads. All aimed at reducing drag while maintaining stiffness.The Helix front wing's performance really comes from its pitch stability, roll in turns, and wide speed range. More than anything, it inspires confidence, which naturally pushes you to ride harder with more fluidity.The one component that adds a bit more spice is the Pivot 140 tail. It's more lively than what a true beginner might want, but paired with the front wing, it still feels very composed for intermediate to advanced riders.To put that into perspective, my girlfriend (about a year into foiling) and my 60-year-old mom are both riding the same foils setup as me. That definitely wasn't on my bingo card five years ago.Foils might not be making the same leaps they were five years ago, but they are getting smoother, more efficient, turning better, and easier to ride. We feel the Helix reflects that progression."

kook123
151 posts
Friday , 1 May 2026 8:20AM
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Here we go...intermediate foiler stoked about the instant progress from his new foil setup:



SA_AL
317 posts
Tuesday , 5 May 2026 11:22AM
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I have spent a lot of time testing the limits of different gears, and I can tell you from experience that the right equipment makes a massive difference in your progress. Even as a much heavier rider at 205 lbs on a 110L board, I found that cycling through various setups like AFS, Slingshot Phantasm and E1090, SAB BALZ 909, 969, Duotone Glide 2.0, and F-One, Mikes Lab taught me exactly how much gear matters. For my intermediate level, moving to specific setups like the Axis HPS 1050 or the Slingshot E1090 and PTM999 with 360 V stab made jibing and tacking significantly easier.Your mast is likely the invisible culprit holding you back. In choppy water or lake swell, a short mast is your worst enemy because it lacks a buffer zone. A longer mast between 85- 90cm gives you the vertical room to make mistakes. If you wobble during a foot switch on a short mast, you breach and crash, but on a long mast, you actually have time to recover. Furthermore, a longer mast provides better leverage to control the pitch and roll of the foil, which is essential for learning to pump and transition efficiently.The all-around friendly foils you are using simply have too much drag for where you want to go. For jibes and tacks, glide is everything. If a foil slows down the second you stop powered-up riding, you will sink mid-turn. Foils like the Axis HPS 1050 or the Slingshot PTM999 and PTM899 carry their speed through the arc, making transitions feel seamless. While those specific models are a bit older now, they prove the point that you should look for newer wings that offer even better glide. At 65kg, you do not need the brute force lift of a beginner foil; you need a wing that stays flying at lower speeds without stalling out during a foot switch. I am limited in the new models of various brands and this community would be very helpful for you to select best foil for you.Finally, do not overlook your wing. The connection to your power source is just as vital as the foil under the water. I found that wings with a rigid boom or high-end ergonomics, like the Duotone Slick or the NeilPryde Firefly, were the best for my progression. When you are trying to switch feet or hands during a jibe, hunting for a soft handle is a major distraction that kills your balance. A boom allows you to slide your hands to the exact position needed without looking, providing instant feedback and better power management in gusty, inconsistent wind.In summary, move to an 85cm or longer mast to change your experience in choppy water and switch to a high-aspect glide foil in the 900 to 1200 square centimeter range. Most importantly, try a wing with a boom. Progression isn't just about how much time you spend on the water; it is about having gear that doesn't punish your mistakes. Switch the equipment, and you will find those jibes finally start clicking.

kook123
151 posts
Tuesday , 5 May 2026 10:24PM
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SA_AL said..
...The all-around friendly foils you are using simply have too much drag for where you want to go. For jibes and tacks, glide is everything. If a foil slows down the second you stop powered-up riding, you will sink mid-turn.


This is probably the main limitation I'm feeling with my Uni Progressions...I like their low end, but you can feel the resistance in the water pretty clearly...the Lift hax's I had been on were really lacking in low end for me, but felt less draggy...
It seems we are at a point where there are a number of options that don't require those trade-offs as much
So...what are the best new options out there?
Having the Cedrus mast makes the cost of migrating relatively low, and I'll be in Hood River full time in another week or so...

Hdip
472 posts
Wednesday , 5 May 2026 11:50PM
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I would give this podcast a listen. You're already on his boards. See if you agree with his philosophy on foils next. I was all ready to be offended because he keeps referring to his customer as a middle aged guy who get's out twice a week. Then I looked in the mirror and thought yeah you're right, no wonder I love your foils. (I'm only on the operator, have not tried the agent yet)

genericfoilingpod.com/archives/podcast/143-omen-foils-greg-falck

SA_AL
317 posts
Wednesday , 6 May 2026 12:20AM
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kook123 said..



SA_AL said..
...The all-around friendly foils you are using simply have too much drag for where you want to go. For jibes and tacks, glide is everything. If a foil slows down the second you stop powered-up riding, you will sink mid-turn.





This is probably the main limitation I'm feeling with my Uni Progressions...I like their low end, but you can feel the resistance in the water pretty clearly...the Lift hax's I had been on were really lacking in low end for me, but felt less draggy...
It seems we are at a point where there are a number of options that don't require those trade-offs as much
So...what are the best new options out there?
Having the Cedrus mast makes the cost of migrating relatively low, and I'll be in Hood River full time in another week or so...




I'm running the 84 cm Cedrus mast with Slingshot front and rear wings, plus the Cedrus-Slingshot adapter, which adds approximately 2 cm to the total mast length. The mast is structurally very stiff and torsionally stable, but it does generate audible flow noise-typically a hum or whistle-depending on the specific foil configuration and angle of attack.

kook123
151 posts
Wednesday , 6 May 2026 9:15PM
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Hdip said..
I would give this podcast a listen. You're already on his boards. See if you agree with his philosophy on foils next. I was all ready to be offended because he keeps referring to his customer as a middle aged guy who get's out twice a week. Then I looked in the mirror and thought yeah you're right, no wonder I love your foils. (I'm only on the operator, have not tried the agent yet)

genericfoilingpod.com/archives/podcast/143-omen-foils-greg-falck


Good stuff...I like Greg and find his approach really compelling...going to try and demo an Emissary soon, and hopefully an Agent setup when they have them some on hand in Lyle



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"New foils for The Struggle" started by kook123