Very first day out on my new setup today and have a severe bent mast issue. Naish S25 75cm mast and 1650 Jetfoil, was riding swell out the back so not in the whitewater, nowhere near hitting the bottom, and no jumping on it... I am 105kg though.
I was riding a waist height wave, started to get steeper so did a hard carve off the back of the wave before it broke, fell off after coming off the wave trying to gybe, then when I got back on the mast looks like this.
I bought it used so no warranty, but it was like new condition, I inspected it thoroughly when I bought it and am totally confident that there was no damage. It also was riding fine for the first 4 hours of today.
Any thoughts? Anyone had this before? Seems like it gave way waaay too easily even if I am heavy. Any thoughts on fixing it?
Aluminum masts bend yes. Sometimes in seemingly unexplainable ways. If you managed to wrap your leash onto the foil and it got hit by breaking wave, that will do it.
Select to expand quotemartyman said..
Aluminum masts bend yes. Sometimes in seemingly unexplainable ways. If you managed to wrap your leash onto the foil and it got hit by breaking wave, that will do it.
Yeah, I learned that now, won't ever be buying one again. I would not expect it to bend that easily, the wave wasn't even breaking, just seemed that my heavy ass cranking a hard turn is enough.
It does feel kinda light and flimsy though. I had a Starboard Oceanfoil before this and although it is much heavier it just felt like it was built stronger too. Pretty unimpressed... 1st day.
It would be worth speaking with your local Naish supplier/distributer as i understand there was 'an issue' with these masts and they are replacing with an upgrade.
Bummer.
Life is not fair.
One of my old roomies was 275 lbs. He raced motocross and windsurfed. Nothing lasted 4 months under him. Snowmobile frames would buckle in 5 rides. He snapped 3 Seatrend 9'5"ers.
He knew better than to buy n ride 17 lbs road bikes.
He had to beef up frames in his Toyota pickups.
His CR 500's were worn out after 7 races.
Another windsurf bud, former Arizona Cardinals DE, 6'4" and 295 [265 in his playing days], the single biggest human I know, bigger than Russ Francis or Tony Gonzales....football players...would crush the decks of our Kinetic 145's in a couple weeks, but snapped masts and fins weekly until he decided to stop windsurfing
They wanted to be 150lbs like me.
I played football all 3 years for high-school and graduated at 118 lbs. They laughed when I told them I played........
Select to expand quotewind driven said..
It would be worth speaking with your local Naish supplier/distributer as i understand there was 'an issue' with these masts and they are replacing with an upgrade.
Yeah I have just been given the NZ imports number, so will give them a try on Monday.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Bummer.
Life is not fair.
One of my old roomies was 275 lbs. He raced motocross and windsurfed. Nothing lasted 4 months under him. Snowmobile frames would buckle in 5 rides. He snapped 3 Seatrend 9'5"ers.
He knew better than to buy n ride 17 lbs road bikes.
He had to beef up frames in his Toyota pickups.
His CR 500's were worn out after 7 races.
Perils of being a big fella I guess, I have always been hard on gear in all my sports, but having said that I thrashed the hell out of my my 3 year old Starboard Oceanfoil for 6 months and it was rock solid.
The Naish lasted 1 of normal use without so much as a hard fall, I am pretty gutted.
Select to expand quoteTheNortherner said..LeeD said..
Bummer.
Life is not fair.
One of my old roomies was 275 lbs. He raced motocross and windsurfed. Nothing lasted 4 months under him. Snowmobile frames would buckle in 5 rides. He snapped 3 Seatrend 9'5"ers.
He knew better than to buy n ride 17 lbs road bikes.
He had to beef up frames in his Toyota pickups.
His CR 500's were worn out after 7 races.
Perils of being a big fella I guess, I have always been hard on gear in all my sports, but having said that I thrashed the hell out of my my 3 year old Starboard Oceanfoil for 6 months and it was rock solid.
The Naish lasted 1 of normal use without so much as a hard fall, I am pretty gutted.
Hey Northerner,
Bummed to hear about your mast. As mentioned always best to contact your local Naish dealer (or Dealer of any brand for that matter) is you experience an issue with your gear. Be it 2nd hand, if it is still current model and you suspect something may not be right. The Forums are generally not the best in these instances.
Anyway, this looks like an S26 Alloy mast (they are actually quite strong, they added another centre pillar to the extrusion) by the black ends.
Whilst it can be gutting when things like this happen first use, as a more generously proportioned individual riding a large board with what seems to be a large foil, there can be a hell of a lot of torque and forces during even a mild taco (which is what I am assuming happened).
Never the less, I strongly suggest getting in touch with the dealer of purchase or the distributor (me if you're in AUS or Earl if you're in NZ) to get some clarity.
I know, either way we will endeavour to get you back on the water ASAP or sooner.
Kind regards,
JB - Naish Australia/Windgenuity.
Same stuff happened to guy in Perth a few weeks back. They claim their Aluminium mast is the lightest on the market and then they wonder why they snap???
Saw a few split wings as well due to dry laminate and air voids. I would never buy any but kuddo to them, they are good with warranties
Select to expand quoteLivit said..
Same stuff happened to guy in Perth a few weeks back. They claim their Aluminium mast is the lightest on the market and then they wonder why they snap???
Saw a few split wings as well due to dry laminate and air voids. I would never buy any but kuddo to them, they are good with warranties
Yes, they are great with warranties, I've been on the receiving end of one and a mate had two boards replaced due leaks. I'm sure the mast problem will be sorted quick too.
Select to expand quoteJB said..
Hey Northerner,
Bummed to hear about your mast. As mentioned always best to contact your local Naish dealer (or Dealer of any brand for that matter) is you experience an issue with your gear. Be it 2nd hand, if it is still current model and you suspect something may not be right. The Forums are generally not the best in these instances.
Anyway, this looks like an S26 Alloy mast (they are actually quite strong, they added another centre pillar to the extrusion) by the black ends.
Whilst it can be gutting when things like this happen first use, as a more generously proportioned individual riding a large board with what seems to be a large foil, there can be a hell of a lot of torque and forces during even a mild taco (which is what I am assuming happened).
Never the less, I strongly suggest getting in touch with the dealer of purchase or the distributor (me if you're in AUS or Earl if you're in NZ) to get some clarity.
I know, either way we will endeavour to get you back on the water ASAP or sooner.
Kind regards,
JB - Naish Australia/Windgenuity.
Thank you I will be in touch with Earl. I can see where this thread is going so just to be clear I am not on here just to brand bash Naish, generally I like Naish products and hopefully Earl will be able to help.
I posted more out of despair and frustration, even buying used, this is a lot of money to me and as I have no formal warranty I am worried I will lose out. I really just wanted to know if anyone had similar experiences to see how to approach fixing or replacing.
I will update as I know more.
Mate
i bent a Naish 75cm mast without misuse too
im 100kg and it bent turning on a wave as well. it bent in the same location as yours near the base plate the 60cm mast was fine though I guess the shorter lever arm was ok I don't think the Naish (or any brand?) longer alloy masts are strong enough for 100kg plus riders. go carbon is my advice - I've been on carbon for 12 months now with no problems.
Select to expand quotewindrider323 said..
Mate
i bent a Naish 75cm mast without misuse too
im 100kg and it bent turning on a wave as well. it bent in the same location as yours near the base plate the 60cm mast was fine though I guess the shorter lever arm was ok I don't think the Naish (or any brand?) longer alloy masts are strong enough for 100kg plus riders. go carbon is my advice - I've been on carbon for 12 months now with no problems.
Thanks for the heads up. I already spoke to the distributor so will see what they come back with. Will certainly go Carbon in future, but for now $700 for a replacement mast for 1 session makes it one very expensive session!
My Starboard was a 75cm Alloy mast, and seemed super strong. I gave it waaaay more abuse than the Naish over a long period with no sign of problems... It was HEAVY though and Unfortunately I sold it. Who knows maybe the Naish are very strong too and I just never got unlucky with the Starboard...
Select to expand quoteTheNortherner said..windrider323 said..
Mate
i bent a Naish 75cm mast without misuse too
im 100kg and it bent turning on a wave as well. it bent in the same location as yours near the base plate the 60cm mast was fine though I guess the shorter lever arm was ok I don't think the Naish (or any brand?) longer alloy masts are strong enough for 100kg plus riders. go carbon is my advice - I've been on carbon for 12 months now with no problems.
Thanks for the heads up. I already spoke to the distributor so will see what they come back with. Will certainly go Carbon in future, but for now $700 for a replacement mast for 1 session makes it one very expensive session!
My Starboard was a 75cm Alloy mast, and seemed super strong. I gave it waaaay more abuse than the Naish over a long period with no sign of problems... It was HEAVY though and Unfortunately I sold it. Who knows maybe the Naish are very strong too and I just never got unlucky with the Starboard...
In case you are stuck, I have a 75cm Moses aluminium that is strong but heavy. If interested I'll take measurements for fittings
Northerner, we had a guy here in Tas bend up a mast in similar fashion not doing anything wrong. Big guy (110kg+). Axis stumped up the warranty mast which was good. He's back and going.
He did have a massive foil (1m+ wide) so the loads would have been damn big.
My first foil was the Naish 1220cm2 which I got complete (with 70cm mast) back in 2017 for windfoiling. Upgraded to the 2019 Naish 1570cm2 foil, mast (85cm), base, fuse and abracadabra. Was using the 70cm (early model) mast with the 2019 gear and there was wobble in the system (yeah, wtf??). Diagnosed that the base for the 2019 gear was slightly bigger than the 2017 mast, so the mast was swinging around a tiny bit even when things were tightened up rock solid. The 2017 base wouldn't take the 2019 mast. Thanks Naish - superceded gear after 2 years! I suspect that you aren't in that situation, but it might pay to double check it in case some of your gear is from different years and isn't integrating properly?
Select to expand quotemartyj4 said..
Northerner, we had a guy here in Tas bend up a mast in similar fashion not doing anything wrong. Big guy (110kg+). Axis stumped up the warranty mast which was good. He's back and going.
He did have a massive foil (1m+ wide) so the loads would have been damn big.
My first foil was the Naish 1220cm2 which I got complete (with 70cm mast) back in 2017 for windfoiling. Upgraded to the 2019 Naish 1570cm2 foil, mast (85cm), base, fuse and abracadabra. Was using the 70cm (early model) mast with the 2019 gear and there was wobble in the system (yeah, wtf??). Diagnosed that the base for the 2019 gear was slightly bigger than the 2017 mast, so the mast was swinging around a tiny bit even when things were tightened up rock solid. The 2017 base wouldn't take the 2019 mast. Thanks Naish - superceded gear after 2 years! I suspect that you aren't in that situation, but it might pay to double check it in case some of your gear is from different years and isn't integrating properly?
To be fair mine fits together perfectly... but good info if I need to replace. Thanks.
Yeah, I keep my '18 parts separate from my '19 and '20 parts. Foils DO interchange.
Just received a mail from my local dealer, that S25 Foil Mast are recalled due to issues with bending or loosing the foil completely. S26 Masts will be provided which are made stronger and have 2 additional screws. Waiting for the replacement now but will use my '19 mast in between.
Could be worse, one of the windfoilers on the local lake had the whole mast separate from fuselage last week. He lost everything.
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
Could be worse, one of the windfoilers on the local lake had the whole mast separate from fuselage last week. He lost everything.
I believe this was David. We're working through this at the moment with Kite and SUP.
Hopefully everyone who has purchased a S25 (silver ends) mast has received some communication from their local dealer where they purchased the mast from. We (here is Australia) have chosen to change over all S25 (Silver end) masts with S26 (Black end) ones.
Ride safe,
JB
****UDATE****
Thought it is fair to give an update to the situation.
First off it was the S26 mast that bent, I didn't realise that at the time, but it does have to two extra screws and the black surrounds. I spoke to the Naish rep, sent a few pics and description, after week or so they agreed to replace the whole mast free of charge with a carbon 35... goes without saying I am stoked.
I cannot comment on what caused it to bend in the first place, maybe a weakness in all alloy masts, maybe bad luck, maybe my heavy ass and a wide board... we will never know.
What I can say for sure though is that Naish have been absolutely fantastic and have gone waaay over and above in dealing with the issue.
As I was not the original buyer, they would have been within their legal rights to do nothing at all, but instead they have chosen to stand by their product and look after the end user. For that reason alone I would absolutely trust buying Naish products again in future.
I know this is a one off, and unusual situation, and would not expect them to go replacing any old used gear if it breaks, but do think in this case they have been totally fair.
Go Naish...
Lesson learned though, as a 100kg+ guy, I will not be trusting an alloy mast in future, regardless of brand.
Select to expand quoteTheNortherner said..
****UDATE****
Thought it is fair to give an update to the situation.
First off it was the S26 mast that bent, I didn't realise that at the time, but it does have to two extra screws and the black surrounds. I spoke to the Naish rep, sent a few pics and description, after week or so they agreed to replace the whole mast free of charge with a carbon 35... goes without saying I am stoked.
I cannot comment on what caused it to bend in the first place, maybe a weakness in all alloy masts, maybe bad luck, maybe my heavy ass and a wide board... we will never know.
What I can say for sure though is that Naish have been absolutely fantastic and have gone waaay over and above in dealing with the issue.
As I was not the original buyer, they would have been within their legal rights to do nothing at all, but instead they have chosen to stand by their product and look after the end user. For that reason alone I would absolutely trust buying Naish products again in future.
I know this is a one off, and unusual situation, and would not expect them to go replacing any old used gear if it breaks, but do think in this case they have been totally fair.
Go Naish...
Lesson learned though, as a 100kg+ guy, I will not be trusting an alloy mast in future, regardless of brand.
Well, I'm impressed. Go Naish!
David here. As Bigtone described I had a failure of my Naish S25 mast where the bonded mast sleeve separated at the fuselage. I heard a loud crack and then crashed. The fuse including the 1400 HA wing and stab is now lying on the bottom of the local lake.
It was a bit of a shock when it happened since I have never had a problem with Naish gear having been windfoilng for 3 years and now starting to learn winging.
I have appreciated the generally solid and well engineered design of Naish gear.
As JB previously advised I immediately contacted my local Naish dealer Dave at Kite and SUP. He was very supportive and sympathetic to my predicament. He told me that the S25 was subject to a recall but somehow I had missed out on the communication.
Dave contacted me again today to advise that JB and himself are working towards a solution with replacement Naish gear.
So far I have been super impressed with the response from both Kite and SUP and Windgenuity.
I missed this thread.
I was not contacted by my original retailer and only found out about the recall in a passing conversation with another really helpful dealer.
I have been told that Naish will not pay out any warranty claims on the silver ended s25 masts if you do not get it replaced and continue to use it - obviously an issue if no one tells you about the recall in the first place!
I am assuming that there is some time limit for getting it replaced.
So bumping this thread in case anyone else has missed this.
Edit: I am U.K. based.
Awesome! Great news that Naish helped you out.
I have a chinese copy of the version 1 slingshot foil. The 55cm mast bent quite often from my board getting a side hit from a wave. It always bent at the board end. I had to straighten it by putting it in a vice & using gloves or rag pull it with a hard quick tug. Was easier than I thought. I've done this about 8 times. So I believe it is just the basic soft cheap aluminium.
I have since bought & used a Neilpryde foil that has a wider mast at 65cm long & it has never bent. So I have just recently retrofitted the the Slingshot copy fuselarge to fit my NP mast. Hoping to try it soon.
And like some guys have said on this forum before. Different grades of aluminium are either softer or harder. And sometimes you may be able to tell by tapping it with something metal. The harder aluminium will sound tinny compared to a softer sound of softer aluminium.
The harder grades from what I believe would be more prone to snapping after being bent. If it will ever bend at all.
I also think that a longer mast will either need to be a very hard grade or made wider especially at the board end.
