Badass wingfoil racers look like they never change their sail angles. How do they absorb the power when a gust hits? Certainly part of it is being willing to go faster -something I'm loathe to do over 17 or so kts.
I know I 'need' to learn to be stable on foil at higher speeds. But I intuit that a component of this is having more stillness in the upper body causing less instability translated to the foil. I'm constantly adjusting the sail angles to account for wind strength. So what's the secret -just lean back and let the whole gust get translated into velocity?
The key is to push the board forward instead of letting yourself get dragged along by the wing. Most wingfoilers ride around like a sack of potatoes, very passive and simply relying on the wing to pull everything forward. Speed & control in higher winds come from active riding. Tension in your body & drive that board forward through the front leg.
Worth remembering that racers are on long masts, different foils, and different wings than us. There's technique for sure, but there's also a ton of gear variables that make the experience way different than the average Joe's out riding swell and mowing the lawn.
I'm no racer but upwind when a gust hits I heel the board over further so the extra lift is pushing me upwind instead of out of the water. Along with front foot pressure that is probably my most active control. Downwind you can usually turn down a little further but gusts already aren't as big a deal since the apparent wind is a lot lower.
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..
Worth remembering that racers are on long masts, different foils, and different wings than us. There's technique for sure, but there's also a ton of gear variables that make the experience way different than the average Joe's out riding swell and mowing the lawn.
No doubt but I feel I should be able to break 20 on my setup and cruse around at 16-18 instead of 13-15. Or maybe I'm mistaken?
Select to expand quoteStumbleweed said..
Badass wingfoil racers look like they never change their sail angles. How do they absorb the power when a gust hits? Certainly part of it is being willing to go faster -something I'm loathe to do over 17 or so kts.
I know I 'need' to learn to be stable on foil at higher speeds. But I intuit that a component of this is having more stillness in the upper body causing less instability translated to the foil. I'm constantly adjusting the sail angles to account for wind strength. So what's the secret -just lean back and let the whole gust get translated into velocity?
Basically you are on the right track, what sort of foil instability are you feeling as you approach 20 knots? Pitchy/diving? overpowered front foot pressure? Both of those will make you back off, so gear can come into it. gear wise a well tuned foil that remains stable and doesn't overpower the front foot is important as is a stiff wing that provides enough support to lean against. I feel like 4.0 to 5.5 is the sweet spot for that type of riding on non-race gear, smaller wings get twitchy and bigger tend to catch the wingtips. You want the wing as upright and sheeted in as possible.
Select to expand quoteStumbleweed said..
It gets pitchy/divy
Have you tried a longer fuse/bigger stab or shimming for more front foot?
It's your wing. With some brand, the center of effort is super stable in gust, some not so much and moves
around pitchy/dive.
Select to expand quotewinddoc said..
It's your wing. With some brand, the center of effort is super stable in gust, some not so much and moves
around pitchy/dive.
I'd be super happy if it's a gear issue and not a me issue. I use f-one strikes (various generations).
Select to expand quoteJonahL said..Stumbleweed said..
It gets pitchy/divy
Have you tried a longer fuse/bigger stab or shimming for more front foot?
I'm on a 60 cm fuse. Haven't gone longer. Have used shims and various stabs. Maybe not as scientifically as I could though.
You take the gusts all in the legs.
There is almost no limit to the power you can hold via kite harness. If you've got the courage to hook in super powered.
Your hand wing will gain back hand pressure as power increases. You move harness lines back a bit to compensate for this shift. You cannot hold insane power with a simple belt loop and plastic buckle.
At some point, the legs will start to fatigue and collapse. Provided you are able to maintain back hand pressure. Once you loose it, you'll get backwinded and slammed to the water. Same as any windsurf sail.
Videos of kite foil racers show what is possible via legs, and harness. They hold near unlimited loads.
Select to expand quoteStumbleweed said..JonahL said..Stumbleweed said..
It gets pitchy/divy
Have you tried a longer fuse/bigger stab or shimming for more front foot?
I'm on a 60 cm fuse. Haven't gone longer. Have used shims and various stabs. Maybe not as scientifically as I could though.
Maybe try shimming or a bigger stab until you have solid front foot pressure, it will be draggier but you should be able to push harder
Have a look at some of Lachie White's videos. There's a few he talks about creating extra speed with gusts, generating greater apparent wind etc. www.youtube.com/@LachieWhite
Select to expand quoteStumbleweed said..winddoc said..
It's your wing. With some brand, the center of effort is super stable in gust, some not so much and moves
around pitchy/dive.
I'd be super happy if it's a gear issue and not a me issue. I use f-one strikes (various generations).
Strikes are fast wings. Depending on their age and wear they should all be able to cross the 30 knot barrier.
Select to expand quotekiwiupover said..
Have a look at some of Lachie White's videos. There's a few he talks about creating extra speed with gusts, generating greater apparent wind etc. >
His content is excellent. I reviewed some of his material prior to posting this. Can you point me to a specific video with this content?
Select to expand quotekiwiupover said..
Have a look at some of Lachie White's videos. There's a few he talks about creating extra speed with gusts, generating greater apparent wind etc. >
I'd viewed a few prior to posting this. Can you point to one or two which you feel are relevant to this question? Thanks
Kiwiupower, I'd viewed a few of his excellent posts prior to posting but not found anything that directly adderesses this question. Can you point to a video or two you feel are relevant? Thanks
Select to expand quoteStumbleweed said..BWalnut said..
Worth remembering that racers are on long masts, different foils, and different wings than us. There's technique for sure, but there's also a ton of gear variables that make the experience way different than the average Joe's out riding swell and mowing the lawn.
No doubt but I feel I should be able to break 20 on my setup and cruse around at 16-18 instead of 13-15. Or maybe I'm mistaken?
What's your setup? Wind strength? Water state? (Flat water really helps).
I'm not very good but my problem is that power in the wing translates to front foot pressure, what tips does everyone have to deal with that? Is it just a matter of moving the hips to compensate?
Faff, I ride Armstrong hs2 780 with the dart 140 tail, +0.5 shim, cedrus wing mast (90 or 72), foil positioned at center of mass balance point of board. Board is a 78 L Emissary. I ride f-one wings of different generations (mostly newer). I mainly ride in the Columbia Gorge so generally there's swell but certainly not always big swell. Generally I looks for mid-strength days to work on speed (17-22 kt). I'm 85-ish kg
Select to expand quoteStumbleweed said..
Faff, I ride Armstrong hs2 780 with the dart 140 tail, +0.5 shim, cedrus wing mast (90 or 72), foil positioned at center of mass balance point of board. Board is a 78 L Emissary. I ride f-one wings of different generations (mostly newer). I mainly ride in the Columbia Gorge so generally there's swell but certainly not always big swell. Generally I looks for mid-strength days to work on speed (17-22 kt). I'm 85-ish kg
I heard that original Armstrong HA foils were very technical. But if that's not the foil I think it is, then you should have no issues at all hitting 20 knots with that setup. Ride higher on the mast. Bear away as much as possible in a gust in a flat spot, moving your weight forward as the front foot pressure rises. You don't need to be hooked in. Might consider taking off the board leash, so that the board does not fly after you in a crash. (Would need to know how to body drag, of course).
Select to expand quotedieseagull said..
I'm not very good but my problem is that power in the wing translates to front foot pressure, what tips does everyone have to deal with that? Is it just a matter of moving the hips to compensate?
Push the wing forward / move your hands back on the handles or boom. The more forward / in front of the board you hold the wing the easier it is to transmit the power through the front foot. Front foot pressure is a good thing in that sense, because its where you want the power to go anyway.
When I've been totally overpowered 30+ knots on a 3.3m I find I can foil for longer toeside for some reason. It's uncomfortable requiring full on concentration but I go for further before getting blown off. If I'm riding normal & sheeting right out I just get repeatedly trashed & only manage about 15m before crashing. Anyone know what that's all about? I was wondering if it's because I somehow am sheltering the wing from the wind somehow toeside.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..
When I've been totally overpowered 30+ knots on a 3.3m I find I can foil for longer toeside for some reason. It's uncomfortable requiring full on concentration but I go for further before getting blown off. If I'm riding normal & sheeting right out I just get repeatedly trashed & only manage about 15m before crashing. Anyone know what that's all about? I was wondering if it's because I somehow am sheltering the wing from the wind somehow toeside.
With the different body twisting you might be angling the wing differently. I lacked power toeside as was holding the wing more horizontal, didn't look like that from the twisted toeside perspective.
