So 2022 is coming to an end, if you had a mast with an adapter what foils would you own for:
1. Winging flatwater - must be a super efficient foil, be fast and handle turbulent water without any funky behaviour
2. Winging in surf, prone and sup
I'm trying to work out if I need a mast with an adapter or if I can just get away with one brand and not really be missing any magic from another brand, but then I'd have to pick the right brand right...
I'm 6'3 and 100kg, and mainly interested in feedback for riders > 90 kgs.
This would be my pick, but have I got it wrong or missed any brand that is a serious contender?
1. Winging flatwater
Cabrinha H1000 - I haven't ridden this, but spec is almost identical to gofoil RS1075, and AR 8 is perfect for glide and speed
Takuma 1095 - I haven't ridden this, but everyone raves about it
GoFoil RS1075
Lift 170 - haven't ridden this, but many like it prone
UniFoil Hyper2 170 - haven't ridden this, specs look great, not much feedback from riders and no adapters I believe yet
Sabfoil W940
2. Winging in surf, prone and sup
Cabrinha H1000, H1200, H800 is probably too small for me unless in chest to overhead waves
Takuma 1095, 1210, 1440
GoFoil RS1075, RS1000, GT1400
Lift 170, 200
UniFoil Hyper2 170, 190
I have a Cedrus mast and u can get all sorts of adapters.
I've been on axis for 2yrs have been great but fancied a change, so got a Unifoil vyper 150, 2 sessions so far and feeling good. I also have the hyper2 170/190 coming in a couple of weeks.
Mike
Yes Cedrus is great for heavy riders and excellent quality.
You can choose the lenght, board mount, adapters to fit any plane, etc
I recently swithed from SAB (999 + 945) to Takuma just getting another adapter, the removing the adapter with a Stringfellow fuze
So for me @115kg winging:
Cedrus 93cm
Takuma 1440 & 1095 (both excellent wings as they glide AND turn well)
Stringfellow fuze 60cm (compared to 65cm Takuma) with direct mount @ 90? into the Cedrus (no adapter needed)
13" KD Maui tail
Good stuff !
95kg rider, prone and wave ding mostly.
So I owned and winged/surfed the RS 1000, RS 1075, and I'm now on the Cab 1000.
The RS 1000 was absolutely the best for powered wave riding, little gutless on the bottom end though. Nice and flat profile, really wanted to roll, skate, and pivot. For prone it was a little slow and gutless for pumping small waves and was lacking some bottom end light wind winging.
My plan was to get a hair more pump and glide and keep the playfull by getting the RS 1075 but it just didn't work out. Little more anhedral in the tips made it want to trip over itself a little on the pivot turn(which is a big part of my riding). And it pumped better but not enough that I was happy.
Next step was a Cedrus CAB 1200/1000 with custom tails. 1200 is a little slow but nice turning characteristics for my style. 1000 feels great but is fast enough that I'm starting to feel the drag of the thicker Cedrus mast. Not a deal breaker but annoying on the small day(which is why I have the 1200. Both cab wings have that anhedral in the middle with the flat tips, like the opposite do the flat middle and anhedral tips of the 1075. Feels a lot better for my style of riding.
Cabs needed agressive tuning(tail up more speed) Recommend getting a foil parts adapter as stock tails and tuning are junk
95kg and winging in waves and flatwater on a AK5.6x90l and KT 56l.
I have a Cedrus and just ditched all the Sabfoils. They have really nice foils but none of them just suited my conditions perfectly where some other brands do.My foils at the moment: Kujira1210 and Cabrinha H-series 1200-1000-800. I have both the foilparts adapter with KD stabs as the standard tails. The standard tails do work well but we got very slow short period windwaves and I trimmed them down to loosen up a bit.The 1200 is a bit slow but with its extremely low stallspeed a lot of fun, the 1000 pretty awesome, take off and glide of most 1200-1400 foils without the too much lift, the 800...needs some proper fast waves.
I,m with Toomuch Epoxi on the drag factor, but the Cedrus surfs still a lot better as the faster but more flexible masts I tried.
I I hadent had a Cedrus and needed to buy everything new at the moment, I would serious considder Fone with there 7seas range. The 1200 and 1000 are really nice foils and the HM mast is for me stiff enough and slightly faster as the Cedrus.
Add the RS850 to your list. More bottom end than the 1000 faster and turns apparently. Rich raving yesterday in some nice sized lumps, will try it soon.
I think we are at the stage where one brand should be more than enough. Strictly speaking the foils designs are definitely there in a few companies. Gofoil, cabrinah, takuma and just maybe uni all have enough performance and diversity to keep us happy.
it's the masts that have let them down with the exception of gofoil. The masts will come soon for cabrinah and uni. I think the time is upon us where you can lock into one of these three brands and trust they will continue to be committed to evolving with or better than the market. I think gofoil still has the most diversity for the heavier guys by a long way particularly if you are also dabbling in prone and downwind. See my rs post as the rs850 is very special.
No one wants a thicker mast than necessary as it negates the performance of the foil and this is the hard part when selecting your setup for your weight.
It's really difficult for any brand to match the stiffness of the GoFoil, at their super thin profile. All because it requires an autoclave and true prepreg refrigerated carbon fiber manufacturing. Using cheaper methods, everyone is ending up with thick masts to get stiffness.
It's hard one to ignore.
FYI, the new GoFoils masts have a race profile. The 50/50 profile is gone.
It's really difficult for any brand to match the stiffness of the GoFoil, at their super thin profile. All because it requires an autoclave and true prepreg refrigerated carbon fiber manufacturing. Using cheaper methods, everyone is ending up with thick masts to get stiffness.
It's hard one to ignore.
FYI, the new GoFoils masts have a race profile. The 50/50 profile is gone.
It's really difficult for any brand to match the stiffness of the GoFoil, at their super thin profile. All because it requires an autoclave and true prepreg refrigerated carbon fiber manufacturing. Using cheaper methods, everyone is ending up with thick masts to get stiffness.
It's hard one to ignore.
FYI, the new GoFoils masts have a race profile. The 50/50 profile is gone.
Hey DWF how new / what year do you know the Go Foil mast race profile started?:-)
Hey DWF how new / what year do you know the Go Foil mast race profile started?:-)
It quietly released just recently. 8 holes in the base plate is easy way to spot one. A few are out there with 4 holes in the base plate. Feel the profile for reflex in the back.
That's some great feedback.
@TooMuchEpoxy - do you still ride the RS1000?
@Jeroensurf - very interesting, especially about f-one and seven seas, those foils do look nice but in Australia we have the f-one tax and it's worse that the brexit tax in the Uk at the moment
Hardly ever see an f-one rider at my local.
F-one are sill m6 fuse to mast, so not the strongest connection, but good to know the mast stiffness is there.
Definitely would've been an option, except for the cost.
@AnyBoard - banking on one brand can be a mistake, I made it initially with sabfoil, took ages to release and then not what I expected when they released, plus the big mast overhaul hurt existing customer base. Same can be said with armie, loyal fans have been waiting over a year for MA foil upgrades and still waiting.
@DWF - thanks for the heads up new masts, I bought a GF mast and a few weeks later the new ones where announced, the old silent release cycle is good for dealers but not so much with punters ![]()
Perhaps if cedrus could release a thin strong mast, that would be a no brainer and they'd win more market share.
And going with KD tails is a good option I think for me as not locked into proprietary brands setup and can tweak for the ride.
I wonder if uni 3 pack g10 tails will be an alternative to KD tails, any idea of the spacing?
How about you stop switching brands all the time ? ![]()
lol how many brands do you ride? ![]()
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yeah I know, it's time I should get a cedrus, my bad ![]()
How about you stop switching brands all the time ? ![]()
You are the type that never look at other women?![]()
RS1075 wing
RS850 prone
I used to size up foils for small waves or light winds but I don't feel like I need to anymore.
I think we might be in same area if you want a razz on the 850, not sure on sizing for you but personally I would prefer something smaller than the 850 but I'm only 72kg.
I'm of the idea that you should be able to buy quality stuff when you see it . There's a lot of expensive "****" out there and very few master pieces. The ability to swap foils is priceless , you can still get a brand mast like gofoil if you think it's a keeper. What we are still missing and soon be available is the ability to get quality front wings and match them with quality rear wings from other brands. Rear wings is another space where half of them stink or they don't really fit one's riding style or spot
I'm of the idea that you should be able to buy quality stuff when you see it . There's a lot of expensive "****" out there and very few master pieces. The ability to swap foils is priceless , you can still get a brand mast like gofoil if you think it's a keeper. What we are still missing and soon be available is the ability to get quality front wings and match them with quality rear wings from other brands. Rear wings is another space where half of them stink or they don't really fit one's riding style or spot
yeah having a good rear that you can take with you and use with other front wings will be priceless, one dedicated for flat water fast winging, one for dw and one for waves
What's everyone's take on Axis foils? Is the HPS range not a good all-round foil?
I'm about to splash out on some new gear and just assumed these were top performers. I'll admit that I've done very little research. I thought the good thing about Axis is the range of foil types and the various different sizes available in each type.
What's everyone's take on Axis foils? Is the HPS range not a good all-round foil?
I'm about to splash out on some new gear and just assumed these were top performers. I'll admit that I've done very little research. I thought the good thing about Axis is the range of foil types and the various different sizes available in each type.
I've never ridden axis, but it's popular at my local, didn't include it for flat water winging as most use the art series and that has some funky behaviour in choppy messy sea state apparently. They do speak highly of the HPS series, but not sure for prone, maybe some axis riders will be able to provide feedback
I had a Cedrus mast for Axis and had serious ventilation issues with it. It really offered nothing more, other than being lighter, than my 19mm aluminum strut did. Draggy, slow and ventilated all the time. So I took a used Mike's Lab mast and had a custom conversion done to fit the black series fuse. The difference was night and day. Problem was it sped things up so much that the ART wings became noticeably unstable with too much flex. Adrian talks about this in his blueplanet interview I believe? Fix one thing and another problem comes to light. I think Axis has great designs but their construction is not A+. It will be interesting to see what the Axis race line is all about when it comes out. I finally got on full Mike's Lab and haven't looked back. I'm 105 kgs and ride the 800 and 600 in flat water and the 1000 in the surf. Switching to ML progressed my winging more than any other single factor.
I had a Cedrus mast for Axis and had serious ventilation issues with it. It really offered nothing more, other than being lighter, than my 19mm aluminum strut did. Draggy, slow and ventilated all the time. So I took a used Mike's Lab mast and had a custom conversion done to fit the black series fuse. The difference was night and day. Problem was it sped things up so much that the ART wings became noticeably unstable with too much flex. Adrian talks about this in his blueplanet interview I believe? Fix one thing and another problem comes to light. I think Axis has great designs but their construction is not A+. It will be interesting to see what the Axis race line is all about when it comes out. I finally got on full Mike's Lab and haven't looked back. I'm 105 kgs and ride the 800 and 600 in flat water and the 1000 in the surf. Switching to ML progressed my winging more than any other single factor.
Can you please share some details about the ML you ride (mast size and wing details) as I still haven't found `the foil` for flat water carving, manoeuvrability and speed and which feels like a kite foil i.e. no drag whatsoever.
ML offers a 1640, 1300, 1100 and 1000cm2 glider (glider= front wing/fuselage/stabilizer that is ONE PIECE). These are more mid-aspect ratio foils that are great for turning/carving but still low drag with good speed. The 1300, 1100 and 1000 all have a 90 cm wingspan. Not sure about the 1640's wingspan and I may be wrong about the actual cm2 size. Not sure if they are continuing with this wing as it didn't really catch on but would still be a great intermediate wing for someone. The 1300 is their prone foil wing for surfoiling. At least that's how it was described. The 1100 and 1000 have been very popular for winging. The 1300, 1100 and 1000 are all great for winging/prone foil and SUPfoil. Then you have their high aspect 800, 600 and 540 cm2 gliders. The 800 has a 90 cm wingspan. I believe the 600 wingspan is around 80 cm. There is also a new 1150 cm2 wing coming out with a 108cm ish wingspan. I'm excited for this for light wind winging. Masts offered are 102, 96 and 86 cm's and 13 or 14mm thick I believe. They also have 4 or 5 different stabilizer options.
I'm on a Cedrus and riding h800, 1095, and 1440. Most of my riding is on the 1095. I'm keen to try the Uni options. If the construction, connections and stiffness are good, it feels like there are plenty of options to make that ecosystem for for a wide range of riding with a vyper + h2/progression quiver.
ML offers a 1640, 1300, 1100 and 1000cm2 glider (glider= front wing/fuselage/stabilizer that is ONE PIECE). These are more mid-aspect ratio foils that are great for turning/carving but still low drag with good speed. The 1300, 1100 and 1000 all have a 90 cm wingspan. Not sure about the 1640's wingspan and I may be wrong about the actual cm2 size. Not sure if they are continuing with this wing as it didn't really catch on but would still be a great intermediate wing for someone. The 1300 is their prone foil wing for surfoiling. At least that's how it was described. The 1100 and 1000 have been very popular for winging. The 1300, 1100 and 1000 are all great for winging/prone foil and SUPfoil. Then you have their high aspect 800, 600 and 540 cm2 gliders. The 800 has a 90 cm wingspan. I believe the 600 wingspan is around 80 cm. There is also a new 1150 cm2 wing coming out with a 108cm ish wingspan. I'm excited for this for light wind winging. Masts offered are 102, 96 and 86 cm's and 13 or 14mm thick I believe. They also have 4 or 5 different stabilizer options.
thanks for the info, it's hard to find for ML as the site doesn't offer much.
Is the mast a Tuttle with a plate adapter?
I'm on a Cedrus and riding h800, 1095, and 1440. Most of my riding is on the 1095. I'm keen to try the Uni options. If the construction, connections and stiffness are good, it feels like there are plenty of options to make that ecosystem for for a wide range of riding with a vyper + h2/progression quiver.
I ride cedrus, used to ride Axis. I just got Uni vyper 150 and have hyper2 170/190 coming.
Mike
I'm on a Cedrus and riding h800, 1095, and 1440. Most of my riding is on the 1095. I'm keen to try the Uni options. If the construction, connections and stiffness are good, it feels like there are plenty of options to make that ecosystem for for a wide range of riding with a vyper + h2/progression quiver.
I ride cedrus, used to ride Axis. I just got Uni vyper 150 and have hyper2 170/190 coming.
Mike
What made you choose Unifoil? What mast did you get?
I'm on a Cedrus and riding h800, 1095, and 1440. Most of my riding is on the 1095. I'm keen to try the Uni options. If the construction, connections and stiffness are good, it feels like there are plenty of options to make that ecosystem for for a wide range of riding with a vyper + h2/progression quiver.
I ride cedrus, used to ride Axis. I just got Uni vyper 150 and have hyper2 170/190 coming.
Mike
What made you choose Unifoil? What mast did you get?
Also, how did you choose that quiver and why the h2 over the prog?
I'm on a Cedrus and riding h800, 1095, and 1440. Most of my riding is on the 1095. I'm keen to try the Uni options. If the construction, connections and stiffness are good, it feels like there are plenty of options to make that ecosystem for for a wide range of riding with a vyper + h2/progression quiver.
I ride cedrus, used to ride Axis. I just got Uni vyper 150 and have hyper2 170/190 coming.
Mike
What made you choose Unifoil? What mast did you get?
Also, how did you choose that quiver and why the h2 over the prog?
I had the 90 clydesdale cedrus for a year already on my axis. I picked the quiver after talking to the importer here. I loved my small axis BSC and HPS, just fancied a change and looking at the vyper/hyper2 combo I'm hoping to get the best of both. Still getting in tune with the 150 as it's a 750 span and the fuse is shorter than I'm used to, so dialing in pitch and roll as we speak, but it's fast and super responsive, plus the whole set up abouts half the weight of my bsc810/fuse/350 set up.
Looking forward to more time on it and the hyper2s when they come.
Mike