Anybody had a chance to try the new Atlas and compare it with the Armstrong counterparts?
Thank you
I've only had a day winging on the Atlas 960, 170 tail so far on the 77 mast. I've previously been riding Armstrong for 4 years including the latest HAs, which I loved along with the Performance masts. Despite what some people have said about connections not being great on the Armie system, I've been very happy with performance, strength, stiffness etc. I'd say the 960 Atlas compares very well to the HA1080 in bottom end and may even have earlier launch. The Armie HAs allow you to ride smaller areas than you might have previously. I'd say the KT Atlas takes that even further with its slightly wider span and deep underside concave, which has the same effect as adding chord. So the Atlas is very powerful for its size and geared possibly even more toward low end take off. What really surprised me on the 960 is the speed range and pitch stability as well as the turning. Glide and pump felt really good too. Tip breaches are handled better on the 960 than the 1080 by a fair margin. Honestly, I'd be stoked with either system, but the KT feels like a next gen Armie HA to me. It takes many of the traits of the Armie HA and broadens the performance. This makes sense as manufacturers are leap frogging each other all the time. I'm looking forward to riding other sizes soon. Shot below illustrated easy tip breach recovery; not even a bobble or touch down. Wind was 11-15 knots, 4 Celsius. I'm 93 kg.
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
I've only had a day winging on the Atlas 960, 170 tail so far on the 77 mast. I've previously been riding Armstrong for 4 years including the latest HAs, which I loved along with the Performance masts. Despite what some people have said about connections not being great on the Armie system, I've been very happy with performance, strength, stiffness etc. I'd say the 960 Atlas compares very well to the HA1080 in bottom end and may even have earlier launch. The Armie HAs allow you to ride smaller areas than you might have previously. I'd say the KT Atlas takes that even further with its slightly wider span and deep underside concave, which has the same effect as adding chord. So the Atlas is very powerful for its size and geared possibly even more toward low end take off. What really surprised me on the 960 is the speed range and pitch stability as well as the turning. Glide and pump felt really good too. Tip breaches are handled better on the 960 than the 1080 by a fair margin. Honestly, I'd be stoked with either system, but the KT feels like a next gen Armie HA to me. It takes many of the traits of the Armie HA and broadens the performance. This makes sense as manufacturers are leap frogging each other all the time. I'm looking forward to riding other sizes soon.
perfect review. exactly what I was looking for. thanks a lot
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
I've only had a day winging on the Atlas 960, 170 tail so far on the 77 mast. I've previously been riding Armstrong for 4 years including the latest HAs, which I loved along with the Performance masts. Despite what some people have said about connections not being great on the Armie system, I've been very happy with performance, strength, stiffness etc. I'd say the 960 Atlas compares very well to the HA1080 in bottom end and may even have earlier launch. The Armie HAs allow you to ride smaller areas than you might have previously. I'd say the KT Atlas takes that even further with its slightly wider span and deep underside concave, which has the same effect as adding chord. So the Atlas is very powerful for its size and geared possibly even more toward low end take off. What really surprised me on the 960 is the speed range and pitch stability as well as the turning. Glide and pump felt really good too. Tip breaches are handled better on the 960 than the 1080 by a fair margin. Honestly, I'd be stoked with either system, but the KT feels like a next gen Armie HA to me. It takes many of the traits of the Armie HA and broadens the performance. This makes sense as manufacturers are leap frogging each other all the time. I'm looking forward to riding other sizes soon. Shot below illustrated easy tip breach recovery; not even a bobble or touch down. Wind was 11-15 knots, 4 Celsius. I'm 93 kg.
You didn't feel any drag with the mast slightly thicker than the armstrong one?
Select to expand quoteSonsaleta said..
You didn't feel any drag with the mast slightly thicker than the armstrong one?
No, nothing noticeable. It felt slippery and fast. I'll need more time than one day to get a better feel for the mast in both 77 and 85 sizes, but KT have built a mast and system that strikes a balance of performance and cost, so maybe not entirely fair to compare to the Armie Performance mast or other very expensive UHM masts out there. I imagine KT would eventually offer a UHM mast at a higher cost, but I've not heard any mention of it. Kane has said in videos that they built the system from a cost/performance point of view first and are starting "from the middle out" before exploring more and even less expensive materials later. So I take it to mean higher end options (masts, possibly fuses, etc) will eventually be available and compatible with the current foils.
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
I've only had a day winging on the Atlas 960, 170 tail so far on the 77 mast. I've previously been riding Armstrong for 4 years including the latest HAs, which I loved along with the Performance masts. Despite what some people have said about connections not being great on the Armie system, I've been very happy with performance, strength, stiffness etc. I'd say the 960 Atlas compares very well to the HA1080 in bottom end and may even have earlier launch. The Armie HAs allow you to ride smaller areas than you might have previously. I'd say the KT Atlas takes that even further with its slightly wider span and deep underside concave, which has the same effect as adding chord. So the Atlas is very powerful for its size and geared possibly even more toward low end take off. What really surprised me on the 960 is the speed range and pitch stability as well as the turning. Glide and pump felt really good too. Tip breaches are handled better on the 960 than the 1080 by a fair margin. Honestly, I'd be stoked with either system, but the KT feels like a next gen Armie HA to me. It takes many of the traits of the Armie HA and broadens the performance. This makes sense as manufacturers are leap frogging each other all the time. I'm looking forward to riding other sizes soon. Shot below illustrated easy tip breach recovery; not even a bobble or touch down. Wind was 11-15 knots, 4 Celsius. I'm 93 kg.
excellent insights mate.
I've now had a few more sessions on the Atlas 960/170 tail both SUP foiling on the 77 mast (pic below from yesterday, Lisa Riehl photo credit)) and winging on the 85. SUP foiling, the early take off is such a treat. I'm going for unbroken swell that would normally be not worth the effort and getting in quite early. Pitch stability is really good without feeling unresponsive. Turning is excellent considering the 1020mm span. The tail shim instructions that have you adding the front foil and mast numbers are bang on. All companies should do this to help people with a solid starting point. Mast stiffness on the 77 feels good under my 93KG. While I wouldn't complain with more stiffness, it feels great paddling and surfing. Winging the same foil on the 85cm mast (I only have the Atlas 960 and 170 tail at the moment) the rig felt very good and control/top end was excellent. I did some speed runs and was very impressed/surprised by the top end numbers while the low end allows you to crawl around and really slow down when needed. Again, stiffness is not on par with Armie Performance masts, but for the price stiffness and performance is excellent. I've not been able to get the mast to ventilate. The narrower cord of the KT mast allows faster pivoting/yaw inputs than the Armie mast which has been fun to feel while turning. The highlight components are the front foil and tail combo. Super easy to ride with accessible performance. The price/performance for this rig is excellent. You could pay a lot more for another premium system, but I'm not sure the performance gains will be a world apart, which is wild to me. I'm super curious to see how the KT system evolves.
Have been riding the HA680 for a year and absolutely loved it but just switched to KT Atlas. 680/790/960/1130. The KT 680 feels very similar to the HA680, but gets going a bit earlier and is faster. Also feels like it carves tighter turns and actually accelerates the harder it is pushed in a turn on a wave. Gives great confidence as it is so predictable. It comes up very smoothly, and has a ridiculously low low-end for such a small foil. Even at the extreme low end, the foil still turns on a wave. the 790 is the standout, at 88kg I can get up in 12-13mph w a 6.5m wing on a downwind board. I know it sounds incredible, but again the low end of the foil is unbelievable. I ride it w the small 145 tail and the long fuse which loosens the roll up dramatically, it turns without any notable resistance. Despite being so lively, the foil is very stable when switching feet. I know this sounds like a contradiction and I have no idea how they managed to create a foil that's stable and lively at the same time. 790 also very fast and turns incredibly well, it's the reason I switched from Armstrong, the 780HA just felt sluggish compared to the HA680, while the KT790 is nearly as lively as the KT 680.
for very low wind I use the 1130/205 combo. Today we had about 8-10mph which is enough to get up w a 6.5m. The 1130 needs a moment to roll into the turn but then it turns quite tightly for such a huge wing. Even on bigger waves it doesn't overfoil and the glide is endless which is super helpful to do jibes and tacks in such light winds.
i could go on how good these foils are, I'm riding them nearly daily here in Hawaii. Btw, I have no affiliation w KT, paid retail for my foils, just a very happy customer. Happy to answer any questions.
Select to expand quotegeorgsurfer said..
Have been riding the HA680 for a year and absolutely loved it but just switched to KT Atlas. 680/790/960/1130. The KT 680 feels very similar to the HA680, but gets going a bit earlier and is faster. Also feels like it carves tighter turns and actually accelerates the harder it is pushed in a turn on a wave. Gives great confidence as it is so predictable. It comes up very smoothly, and has a ridiculously low low-end for such a small foil. Even at the extreme low end, the foil still turns on a wave. the 790 is the standout, at 88kg I can get up in 12-13mph w a 6.5m wing on a downwind board. I know it sounds incredible, but again the low end of the foil is unbelievable. I ride it w the small 145 tail and the long fuse which loosens the roll up dramatically, it turns without any notable resistance. Despite being so lively, the foil is very stable when switching feet. I know this sounds like a contradiction and I have no idea how they managed to create a foil that's stable and lively at the same time. 790 also very fast and turns incredibly well, it's the reason I switched from Armstrong, the 780HA just felt sluggish compared to the HA680, while the KT790 is nearly as lively as the KT 680.
for very low wind I use the 1130/205 combo. Today we had about 8-10mph which is enough to get up w a 6.5m. The 1130 needs a moment to roll into the turn but then it turns quite tightly for such a huge wing. Even on bigger waves it doesn't overfoil and the glide is endless which is super helpful to do jibes and tacks in such light winds.
i could go on how good these foils are, I'm riding them nearly daily here in Hawaii. Btw, I have no affiliation w KT, paid retail for my foils, just a very happy customer. Happy to answer any questions.
Amazing feedback. Exactly what I needed. Thank you very much again
Also, in terms of mast placement in the fin box, is the mast places as forward as the Armstrong HA/MA or a bit further back?
The armstrong performance mast has a +1
degree rake (nose up). How it is with the KT mast?
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..georgsurfer said..
Have been riding the HA680 for a year and absolutely loved it but just switched to KT Atlas. 680/790/960/1130. The KT 680 feels very similar to the HA680, but gets going a bit earlier and is faster. Also feels like it carves tighter turns and actually accelerates the harder it is pushed in a turn on a wave. Gives great confidence as it is so predictable. It comes up very smoothly, and has a ridiculously low low-end for such a small foil. Even at the extreme low end, the foil still turns on a wave. the 790 is the standout, at 88kg I can get up in 12-13mph w a 6.5m wing on a downwind board. I know it sounds incredible, but again the low end of the foil is unbelievable. I ride it w the small 145 tail and the long fuse which loosens the roll up dramatically, it turns without any notable resistance. Despite being so lively, the foil is very stable when switching feet. I know this sounds like a contradiction and I have no idea how they managed to create a foil that's stable and lively at the same time. 790 also very fast and turns incredibly well, it's the reason I switched from Armstrong, the 780HA just felt sluggish compared to the HA680, while the KT790 is nearly as lively as the KT 680.
for very low wind I use the 1130/205 combo. Today we had about 8-10mph which is enough to get up w a 6.5m. The 1130 needs a moment to roll into the turn but then it turns quite tightly for such a huge wing. Even on bigger waves it doesn't overfoil and the glide is endless which is super helpful to do jibes and tacks in such light winds.
i could go on how good these foils are, I'm riding them nearly daily here in Hawaii. Btw, I have no affiliation w KT, paid retail for my foils, just a very happy customer. Happy to answer any questions.
Amazing feedback. Exactly what I needed. Thank you very much again
Also, in terms of mast placement in the fin box, is the mast places as forward as the Armstrong HA/MA or a bit further back?
The mast is about an inch further forward than the Armstrong HA.
Georgsurfer, have you compared the Nomad foils to the Atlas? 790 Atlas vs 830 Nomad?
I rode the Armstrong on my KT boards without a mast shim and same w the KT foils.
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
Georgsurfer, have you compared the Nomad foils to the Atlas? 790 Atlas vs 830 Nomad?
Yes, I have. Atlas has more glide than Nomad, but Nomad turns a bit more aggressively. My take is that the Nomad is great if you are an extremely accomplished, near pro-level rider who only turns in the most critical section of the wave. The Atlas turns nearly as well but has noticeably more glide, helping 90% of riders perform amazing turns on the wave, even if they mistime it by a hair. I will try to link a video of an amateur rider on the Atlas to give you an idea how radical the Atlas turns. For me it is no contest, I take the Atlas over the Nomad. It makes me a better rider than I actually am.
Select to expand quoteSonsaleta said..
The armstrong performance mast has a +1
degree rake (nose up). How it is with the KT mast?
I used the +1shim last session winging. Felt same as Armstrong ride and touch downs were great at speed. Slower-speed SUP foil I didn't use the shim and paddling in to waves felt efficient and easy.
Mast position, I'm riding the KT back a cm or 2 to be in the same stance position for winging and SUP. This may change very slightly forward. Position is not worlds apart in the boxes by any means between the 2 systems. I actually find the feel of the 960 at least very similar to the Armstrong HA in feel, but with broader range as I mentioned earlier. Probably why I'm feeling comfy right away.
Recently got the 960, still waiting for the 790 and 1340. Comparing the 960 to my AS HA 1080, the KT foil has better lower end, lower stall speed and turning is slightly improved. They seem to have similar top speed but haven't confirmed with my waterspeed app. Also, I prefer riding with the shim at - 0.5 than recommended. Overall a solid good system and surprisingly very reasonably priced. I really love the AS HAs for wing foiling but the KT Atlas definitely has some advantages. I primarily purchased the Atlas foils to use the 1340 when learning to DW with the parawing this year. As I'm 100kg, I'm hoping the 1340 has better low end, pumping ability and turning ability than the AS 1350. If it's anything like the 960, I will be very happy. For an average weight rider, would I recommend an Armstrong user to switch to KT, probably not. The HA foils are still magical and very good. But if someone was just getting into foiling, the KT system right now is hands down a better deal with new generation foils.
I have not spent enough time on GoFoil to have an opinion of the foils, but three friends who are much better riders were on various Gofoils and switched after trying the Atlas. The general opinion was that the Atlas has more speed, glide and turning, both in flat water and waves.
I finally received the Nomad 700 and 155 tail and rode it for a coupe of hours yesterday. Conditions were punchy 25-35 knots, chest high windswell, and a flat water inside section for speed runs. I've seen very little feedback online about this foil, so initial impressions are:
-bottom end is excellent
-speed feels better than anticipated, though my GPS died before I could get any actual speeds.
-roll is very easy; this foil is super playful!
-like the Atlas, there is a feeling of drag at the top end, but it can be pushed hard and fast
-surprisingly pitch stable compared to my previous HA680 and Dart 140 (which I loved)
-glide feels pretty close to the HA680, maybe just a step behind, but quite good
-jumping/pop is excellent as is bouncing back to foil after piercing the water.
-cuts through turbulence really well!
So impressions from the brief initial session are really good (there's always a honeymoon period with new kit!). This feels like a foil that loves to be pushed without feeling too demanding of the rider. It feels like a hybrid between the Army HA and MA, which makes it very versatile, but it doesn't have the "brakes on" feel of the Army MA when you are flagged out riding swell. The 85 mast felt great with this foil; plenty stiff enough for my 198 cm, 93 kg plus full 5mm suit. I do feel more flex riding the 960 Atlas but have adapted.
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
I finally received the Nomad 700 and 155 tail and rode it for a coupe of hours yesterday. Conditions were punchy 25-35 knots, chest high windswell, and a flat water inside section for speed runs. I've seen very little feedback online about this foil, so initial impressions are:
-bottom end is excellent
-speed feels better than anticipated, though my GPS died before I could get any actual speeds.
-roll is very easy; this foil is super playful!
-like the Atlas, there is a feeling of drag at the top end, but it can be pushed hard and fast
-surprisingly pitch stable compared to my previous HA680 and Dart 140 (which I loved)
-glide feels pretty close to the HA680, maybe just a step behind, but quite good
-jumping/pop is excellent as is bouncing back to foil after piercing the water.
-cuts through turbulence really well!
So impressions from the brief initial session are really good (there's always a honeymoon period with new kit!). This feels like a foil that loves to be pushed without feeling too demanding of the rider. It feels like a hybrid between the Army HA and MA, which makes it very versatile, but it doesn't have the "brakes on" feel of the Army MA when you are flagged out riding swell. The 85 mast felt great with this foil; plenty stiff enough for my 198 cm, 93 kg plus full 5mm suit. I do feel more flex riding the 960 Atlas but have adapted.
Nice overview Windoc. I am keen to understand the practical difference between the atlas and the nomad. Which one would you say is better at winging in choppy ocean and flagging the wing on a bump? In his interview with Gwen KWD suggest the nomad is better for gusty choppy conditions. Thanks.
Select to expand quotepanpanace said..
Nice overview Windoc. I am keen to understand the practical difference between the atlas and the nomad. Which one would you say is better at winging in choppy ocean and flagging the wing on a bump? In his interview with Gwen KWD suggest the nomad is better for gusty choppy conditions. Thanks.
The Nomad is more surfy and roll-responsive and eats turbulence really well from what I can tell so far from the 700. It does swell ride flagged out really well, but the Atlas will beat it for just standing there and picking up swell energy. The Nomad is so fun to turn and blast around under wing power and is very smooth at speed. I've not ridden the other Atlas sizes (570 coming soon!) to compare, but the 960 Atlas is a light wind machine. It surfs very well in the low-middle power band but starts to feel a bit powerful for turning hard at higher speeds. With a 5m I was able to get my DW board and Atlas 960 up in @ 11-12 knots fairly easily.
Winged the Nomad 700 with the 170 Atlas tail this time in 18-25 knot winds. Excellent low end and very stable behaviour maxed out. Atlas tail gives a little better glide and smoother turning arc compared to the surfier 155 Nomad tail. Like the Atlas 960, you can go walking pace and not drop out. Pretty wild. Loving the ability to absolutely mach-out across confused seas and foam and not feel sketchy. Very predictable feel, no surprises. This is a really fun foil!
Yesterday I tried back to back the KT Atlas 1130 vs Armstrong HA 1080. they are pretty similar. Granted the KT is larger but I have also briefly tried the Atlas 980 and the findings are the same. I have used the Atlas 205 in the back
take off:
Atlas wins. More gradual, earlier take off. The HA is very good but the Atlas is even better. So far it has been the most efficient foil I have tried both for parawing and winging.
turning:
Atlas wins. Even the 1130 allows for tighter turns, almost idiot proof with ridiculously low stall speed
breaching:
Armstrong more forgiving; easier to push it back under water surface
speed:
very similar without a noticeable difference. Will soon compare HA780 vs Atlas 680 and report back
construction:
Armstrong remains in a league of its own. It's a beautiful object. KT is nice too and the mast is better looking and lighter. however the aluminum fuselage adds a lot of weight and it's quite bizarre they have not (yet) a carbon offering for the fuselage. As it is, there is about 400g difference in weight for the full kit.
also I am not a fan of the stab construction. G10 fiberglass as opposed to cf.
I get it, the g10 riding quality might be better, but KT is a premium brand and should offer the carbon version as well.
my overall opionion:
if you already have an Armstrong HA the swap to KT won't add a noticeable difference. They are both amazing foils.
However, if you don't have an Armstrong yet, and you want a state-of-the-art, modern HA foil, the KT is, by far, the best option right now in the market.
It costs roughly 20% less than Armstrong and its performance is simply sublime. Confidence inspiring, very good for both winging and parawinging.
I just winged the Nomad 830 for the first time yesterday. Coming from the Armie 880, the Nomad 830 felt very familiar right away but is better turning and a little faster. I'd say the 880 pumps a little better, but I'm sure with a little more time on the 830 I'll have it dialled. It feels like it could be a one foil quiver easily like the 880. Really nice! Can't wait to PW it and SUP foil it.
