Asking here as a few repairers and DIYers.
Armstrong FG 90l spongy for 2 feet x 1 inch running between deck pad rail. Construction is core foam, fibre glass, 2mm PVC, carbon outer. I cut spongy deck-section out (see photo).
1. the PVC is stuck to the carbon outer layer, but not to the inner glass layer. It comes off with no effort
2. inner glass layer I think is stuck to core-foam, so good.
3. Inner glass layer is very pliable. I cut a small section out and can bend in half. Feels not far off bare cloth. There are a few pin holes (normal?)
4. Pressing fibre glass on core-foam feels very spongy, about what foam feels like so fibre glass is not adding much stiffness.
I guess inner fibre layer didn't have enough resin or not cured right. What is best way to repair?
I was wondering whether to simply resin on top of the glass layer, press the deck section back into place, then add a layer of fibre lass to the outside? Is it worth adding a new layer of glass over existing glass before pressing deck back?
In case you are wondering
- Repair on side of board was surface crazing I painted over (looking back probably caused by spongy deck), carbon was not cracked so board dry, water never got in.
- the slit in deck and glass is from my first exploratory cut
- Armstrong say out of 6 month warranty and probably impact damage. No sign of impact, no dents or dings. Hard place to impact anyway, or think what is 2'x1" impactor.
- I think layers never bonded correctly and soft glass layer not cured right, so when pumping onto foil the repeated stresses gradually separated the layers. I have repaired old windsurfers with delamination/sponginess and whilst layers might have separated they were still rigid, usually the core and/or pvc had crumbled. Not the case here.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
Looks like Innegra
OK, so it's Innegra not stuck to glass layer. It's 1-2mm thick. I heard it's difficult to work with.
This is total speculation so keep that in mind. I agree looks to me like not enough resin used to bond pvc and core. can see on reverse of pvc no epoxy, and glass on core dose not look like it been wetted out. Again I'm guessing manufacturing fault, impact unlikely to be that long.
The fix for me would be to cut out the glass if not bonded to core. Re glass and stick down pvc patch, try and vac bag it to get the bond to be solid. Put 2 layers of glass over the patch, staggered. Fill sand paint.
Given it looks like a manufacturing fault I'd be hitting Armstrong up again to see what they can do for you.
Yep, looks like innegra. Its not very good with resin absorbtion. I wouldn't try to cut, or sand it at all, won't go too well. Best i'd think you could do with it is re laminate over the top of it where the top layers have lifted and hope for the best. Not sure why they've decided to put it where they've put it, is it a foil sup board? That would sort of explain it, but putting completely dentable carbon over the top of it? Hmm.
not sure if you bought it from a dealer here in aus, but if you did, its a 12 month warranty, not 6 month (according to aus consumer law), could be a different scenario if you've bought it direct and they're not based in aus though.
maybe Mark will respond, he'll have a much better idea of what you can do repair wise, being an actual board repairer/builder.
Bought UK and is 90l FG wing. UK consumer law is new must be free from defects but hope we don't go that route. Local shaper inspected and said was never wet enough to bond. After I cut deck shop and UK distributor asked Armie HQ to reconsider.
So, from picture above is layer still in board ordinary fibre glass and the deck removed and laying alongside carbon backed with Innegra?
The white piece still in the board would be the innegra, the cut out out piece looks like a thin layer of build foam (like divinycell) with the carbon attached. You said you could bend that piece though?
Carbon doesn't bend very well at all if its been wet out and cured properly, you'll get a little bit of flex, then it'll snap, same with the build foam. It sounds like nothings been wet out (or maybe resin not cured) properly.
Looks like insufficient wet-out on the glass. Makes it look like innegra but I doubt very much it is. Can't be 100% from pics though
this is not a DIY unless you've heatformed and vac bagged PVC on rail curve etc before. or unless you're happy with a heavy bog and glass over type job.
I would definitely have a local repairer assess and you tell Armie
edit sorry I missed your last post 
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Looks like insufficient wet-out on the glass. Makes it look like innegra but I doubt very much it is. Can't be 100% from pics though
this is not a DIY unless you've heatformed and vac bagged PVC on rail curve etc before. or unless you're happy with a heavy bog and glass over type job.
I would definitely have a local repairer assess and you tell Armie
edit sorry I missed your last post
If you can't get a warranty because the repair on the rail might indicate damage and water entry that could have steamed the board, etc.
For a quick 'heavy bog and glass over job" repair this is how I would do it;
1. Scratch the white glass using some rough sand paper and vacuum. Use cabosil mixed into epoxy at peanut butter thickness. Clamp the cut out piece using wax paper to allow the clamping blocks to come off. Sand flush the dried overflowed glue. Bonus would be to cover with a layer of glass and paint.
Thanks for inputs and to answer a few questions. Now I understand it is Innegra still in the board it is the Innegra layer that is not wetted enough, pliable and almost as soft as underlying foam and a small sliver cut out was easily bent. The outer layer of carbon on hard foam ( total 2mm) are stuck together and stiff but not stuck to Innegra still in board. No water in board.
Here is close-up pic of inspection cut I made showing layer of Innegra (the mess on outer surface is from sticky tape I used to get clean cut.). After finding that soft and deck not stuck to it I removed most of soft area as in head of post.
It's not innegra.
I suspected that - as there is absolutely no need, nor any brand doing, innegra under the sandwich. So I searched and Armie has only one result for innegra on their site, and its outer laminate on their discontinued DW board. Outer layer makes sense.
It's glass. they all use around 2oz u def the sandwich for building reasons i wont bother to go into. As it's so thin, the fact it moves up n down (doesn't feel stiff) is irrelevant as cured 2oz with minimal resin ratio is about as stiff as a couple of pieces of standard 80gsm printer paper. Feel is not helpful.
colour shows it's not wet out. The repairer said is not wet out. Innegra does look more white than glass.. but it isn't.
Select to expand quoteHwy1North said.. Bonus would be to cover with a layer of glass and paint.
Not bonus. Essential
gluing the skin back on is useless for anything other than sealing it up. It needs fibre for tensile strength. Even better, carbon on top is buckling resistance that is important . A wingboard has huge loading in front of the tracks and just gluing it back in will cause the board to crease later. Geez, even intact boards fail so dodgy patchups are totally nonsensical for foiling stuff. It's 2ft long right in the business area!!!!
old surf logic fails in new equipment but it keeps me in business
To answer one point, Armie says the layer on core is Innegra. Whatever it is, it was not wet enough. Back with Armstrong to respond, but so far they respond along the lines of don't know how that happened so can't be us.
I'm amazed as usually it's in the marketing spiel if there is an exotic type thing in there.
I would say it is a silly idea but anywayyyyyy
It look like 2oz inegra plein wave, ie it look like plain wave glass not saturated with resin. Inegra is sold as a inner layer betwenn eps and main fiber to increase thoughness. But inegra glue not well with resin so if not enough resin nothing stick. Like Mark i think glass is better under pvc. I often see on industrial board not enough resin against foams. I resin paste seal all foams before lam on tacky sealer, never have this problem. But it take some work time...
Select to expand quoteTo complete the story, now that the Distributor has the board and a more complete picture Armstrong have made a fair offer.
Thanks for the helpful comments and advice.
