I've progressed to up and riding with out issue now, but can not get gybes nailed. ive windsurfed/kitesurfed/sup surfed with no problems carving, I had zero foil experience. Watched loads of YouTube vids. question is
was there any one tip, action you did that made the gybes happen? on a 2000cm AK foil. Mostly in choppy sea conditions.
thanks for any advice.
The 2000cm foil makes gybes tricky due to lack of glide and hence needing to be powered through the turn. A smaller foil with more glide will help. Go into the gybe with plenty of speed, reverse the wing early to catch the wind to pull you into the other direction.
Often the trouble is the last 20% of the jibe. Best advice there is don't carve the board too quick at the very end. If you do you run out of gas.
Instead, be willing to go a bit more downwind at that part of the jibe. As you sheet in after the sail flip the board will sort of naturally complete the jibe under you with that foil.
Basically dont be in a hurry near the end of the jibe. Dont force the board around in the final 20%.
Coming from windsurfing, its a lot more delicate. You dont need to carve nearly as hard. Don't lean in anything as hard as windsurfing. You kinda keep your body over the board much more.
Let go of the back of the boom early. Watch Alans Cadiz videos. Free ones on youtube and paid ones on www.patreon.com/AlanCadiz/posts
Time on water.
For gybes in choppy seas, you can practice turning downwind on a bump and riding quasi powered (umbrella mode) before continuing on the same tack. Do that enough times you can then look for a good section to 'envision that toeside cutback to the power source'. On land if you practice running around passing the wing, this will free you up to focus on the turn and controlling altitude/pitch.
Some have trouble riding toe-side coming out of a gybe at first. You can practice slogging crossed up and taking off in that stance if powered up enough. My recommendation for that stance is 'kiss your lead arm's bicep'
For me in choppy seas, I almost require some kind of bump to turn off. I'm finally to the point where I'm toeside tacking upwind onto bumps to de power and swell ride. Not there on heelside tacks yet.
My problem was carving too hard or not enough or flying too high or too low or the wing back winding.
My trick for when you are having trouble (gybing and tacking) is to forget about the wing entirely. If it's light that means getting it set up parallel to the water so it won't back wind. Then gybe putting 100% focus on your board height and leaning etc. Focus only on this, keep the wing overhead. When you've made it, try and work out the wing. Once you can do the carve consistently you can dedicate some brain power to the wing. It just too much information for a new foiler to think about the wing and the foil at the same time. You need to get one of them programmed before you can do them both together.
Select to expand quoteJohnnyTsunami said..
My problem was carving too hard or not enough or flying too high or too low or the wing back winding.
My trick for when you are having trouble (gybing and tacking) is to forget about the wing entirely. If it's light that means getting it set up parallel to the water so it won't back wind. Then gybe putting 100% focus on your board height and leaning etc. Focus only on this, keep the wing overhead. When you've made it, try and work out the wing. Once you can do the carve consistently you can dedicate some brain power to the wing. It just too much information for a new foiler to think about the wing and the foil at the same time. You need to get one of them programmed before you can do them both together.
Thanks Johnny. I think this is mainly my problem. My board drops back to the water surface as I turn because of taking too much time to correctly turn my board as I'm trying to focus on my balance & windwing position. I usually stumble a lot & sometimes fall off the board once the wind recaptures the wing. Soooo frustrating. I think I need to relax a bit more instead of thinking to much on detail & trying too hard. No problems when I SUP foil surf without a wing. So yeah, put the wind wing overhead to take it out of the equation.
While on my beginner 115L board, and first gen GoFoils my foiling gybes got to about 50/50 at best. Switching to an 80L board and Axis BSC/PNG was what did it for me.
Having a foil with glide meant I could carve out a nice gentle wide arc, and not worry about coming off foil. When you've got more time and are not rushed, it all comes together.
Select to expand quoteBigSeppo said..
Often the trouble is the last 20% of the jibe. Best advice there is don't carve the board too quick at the very end. If you do you run out of gas.
Instead, be willing to go a bit more downwind at that part of the jibe. As you sheet in after the sail flip the board will sort of naturally complete the jibe under you with that foil.
Basically dont be in a hurry near the end of the jibe. Dont force the board around in the final 20%.
Coming from windsurfing, its a lot more delicate. You dont need to carve nearly as hard. Don't lean in anything as hard as windsurfing. You kinda keep your body over the board much more.
Thanks for this, I think I'm trying more like other disciplines where I feel the board and try to use the legs more.
yes it's usually the last part where I come of foil/stall/fall in. thanks for input.
Select to expand quoteJohnnyTsunami said..
My problem was carving too hard or not enough or flying too high or too low or the wing back winding.
My trick for when you are having trouble (gybing and tacking) is to forget about the wing entirely. If it's light that means getting it set up parallel to the water so it won't back wind. Then gybe putting 100% focus on your board height and leaning etc. Focus only on this, keep the wing overhead. When you've made it, try and work out the wing. Once you can do the carve consistently you can dedicate some brain power to the wing. It just too much information for a new foiler to think about the wing and the foil at the same time. You need to get one of them programmed before you can do them both together.
Thanks, sounds like my journey lol. will give it ago next time cheers.
Select to expand quoteRodskeg said..
Dtee is right, get on some better gear and it makes a huge difference
Thanks, and I thought I'd stopped spending lol!
For me I ride standing tall with feet close together, like in a phone booth. For gybes, I change into a surf mind set. Widen stance, bend legs, front foot pointed more forward, and pump my way through the carve. The wing only comes back into play at the very end. On toe side, I stick my front arm out and mostly pump my back hand.
I know new gear is always tempting. But your foil will certainly allow you to learn to complete jibes. Its lower stall speed is a plus that will let you finish that last 10% while staying on foil.
Get new gear if you want of course. But you can certainly learn to nail jibes on what you own. The lower top end speed your foil has allows you to go into the jibe with less fear of a high speed wipeout. You can get more reps with your foil, because you will be swimming less to climb back on your gear.
Again, I am not against a new gear putchase. Just wanted to point out the merits of your wing in the learning process.
With such a big foil you need to do a fairly thight turn to not lose too much speed. Also flipping the wing early is paramount, so you can get powered up on the new tack asap!
1) Look where you are going, NOT at the wing
2) Look where you are going, NOT at the wing
3) Look where you are going, NOT at the wing
Those are my top three that will break open the Jybe for you. The other advice in the thread is great as well. Don't give up, have fun and one more thing... you guessed it, look where you are going and not at the wing!
DC
Select to expand quoteDcharlton said..
1) Look where you are going, NOT at the wing
2) Look where you are going, NOT at the wing
3) Look where you are going, NOT at the wing
Those are my top three that will break open the Jybe for you. The other advice in the thread is great as well. Don't give up, have fun and one more thing... you guessed it, look where you are going and not at the wing!
DC
So what you are trying to say is "look where you are going, not at the wing" ? lol.
appreciate it, I'm probably guilty of looking at board trim/wing. im so confident windsurfing/kite it just frustrates me. But that also makes it more addictive. Thanks again, going to remember that.
rgmacca I have just started nailing gybes in the last week. Big thing for me was smooth water. I'd been trying to learn in the river which kicks up lots of short wavelength chop (0.5-1m high faces) so you go through the back of waves when trying to gybe and that kept upsetting the foil. The foil would lift going down the face, so you'd need to lean forwards to keep the nose down and the board flat, then within half a second you'd be into the back of the next wave and the thing would want to drop, so weight transfer then needs to go back foot and so on. Nightmare!
When I went to another location where the chop is virtually non existent, I just started nailing the gybes and also riding toeside which I had no luck with previously. Take the chop out of the equation if you can. It makes everything soooo much more predictable.
The gear comments made by others are important. My best addition to what has already been said is to delay the hand switch and don't try to switch hands and gybe at the same time.
Bring speed and power into the gybe, then release your back hand once you start pointing downwind. "flip" the wing by turning over the front hand, but don't let go or switch hands. Open up the hips and shoulders to the new direction in order to finish the gybe. Wait until you are all the way around the gybe, and have switched the direction of the wing before making the hand switch. This breaks the gybe up so you can focus on getting the board around without thinking about your hands. This also allows you to open up your shoulders and hips with the gybe, which will lead the board around. Switching hands too early will keep your hips and shoulders too closed and you won't finish your turn.
Look down wind, look where you are going.. helped me a lot
Also raise the wing higher as you go for the hand switch.
Actually you can only see down wind if you raise the wing.
Go for a wider turn
Wait for a gust to start the turn. Especially with the 2000 front wing
Select to expand quoteVelocicraptor said..
The gear comments made by others are important. My best addition to what has already been said is to delay the hand switch and don't try to switch hands and gybe at the same time.
Bring speed and power into the gybe, then release your back hand once you start pointing downwind. "flip" the wing by turning over the front hand, but don't let go or switch hands. Open up the hips and shoulders to the new direction in order to finish the gybe. Wait until you are all the way around the gybe, and have switched the direction of the wing before making the hand switch. This breaks the gybe up so you can focus on getting the board around without thinking about your hands. This also allows you to open up your shoulders and hips with the gybe, which will lead the board around. Switching hands too early will keep your hips and shoulders too closed and you won't finish your turn.
Hi
Please explain a bit more "flip the wing over by turning over the front hand" thx
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..Velocicraptor said..
The gear comments made by others are important. My best addition to what has already been said is to delay the hand switch and don't try to switch hands and gybe at the same time.
Bring speed and power into the gybe, then release your back hand once you start pointing downwind. "flip" the wing by turning over the front hand, but don't let go or switch hands. Open up the hips and shoulders to the new direction in order to finish the gybe. Wait until you are all the way around the gybe, and have switched the direction of the wing before making the hand switch. This breaks the gybe up so you can focus on getting the board around without thinking about your hands. This also allows you to open up your shoulders and hips with the gybe, which will lead the board around. Switching hands too early will keep your hips and shoulders too closed and you won't finish your turn.
Hi
Please explain a bit more "flip the wing over by turning over the front hand" thx
I probably should have been more clear. I generally hold the front handle with my palm facing up. When I refer to flipping the wing over, i just mean taking that front hand with the palm facing up and rotating my wrist so that the palm is facing down and therefor the wing is facing the other direction. My grip on the handle doesn't change at any point in this step.
Select to expand quotemartyj4 said..
rgmacca I have just started nailing gybes in the last week. Big thing for me was smooth water. I'd been trying to learn in the river which kicks up lots of short wavelength chop (0.5-1m high faces) so you go through the back of waves when trying to gybe and that kept upsetting the foil. The foil would lift going down the face, so you'd need to lean forwards to keep the nose down and the board flat, then within half a second you'd be into the back of the next wave and the thing would want to drop, so weight transfer then needs to go back foot and so on. Nightmare!
When I went to another location where the chop is virtually non existent, I just started nailing the gybes and also riding toeside which I had no luck with previously. Take the chop out of the equation if you can. It makes everything soooo much more predictable.
Thanks, most of the time I'm in close side chop, on shore open sea. It does feel like it affects the foil. Have a reservoir I use on one wind direction, but always gusty. flat water is so much better for learning, I feel like a good few days on flat water would see me progress.
enjoying the process still.
Select to expand quoteVelocicraptor said..
The gear comments made by others are important. My best addition to what has already been said is to delay the hand switch and don't try to switch hands and gybe at the same time.
Bring speed and power into the gybe, then release your back hand once you start pointing downwind. "flip" the wing by turning over the front hand, but don't let go or switch hands. Open up the hips and shoulders to the new direction in order to finish the gybe. Wait until you are all the way around the gybe, and have switched the direction of the wing before making the hand switch. This breaks the gybe up so you can focus on getting the board around without thinking about your hands. This also allows you to open up your shoulders and hips with the gybe, which will lead the board around. Switching hands too early will keep your hips and shoulders too closed and you won't finish your turn.
Thanks, will give it ago. I think I need a bit more speed power initiating turn. I've started to get round on a few but come off foil and fall in. work in progress. cheers.
One of the big things for me was learning/trying to catch waves and chop with the wing totally de-powered. Getting familiar with the truly balancing on the board and zero stability assistance from the pull of the wing. Don't even need to go all the way and swap to the leading edge handle, even just totally letting go of the back hand and pumping/riding like that really helps. Once you get a sense of that and you start turning fully balanced over the foil it's just kinda happens. Had a bit of a light bulb moment when I realized that wing ding was a foil sport with some help from wind and waves and pumping rather than a wind sport. YMMV!
Select to expand quoteJonathanC said..
One of the big things for me was learning/trying to catch waves and chop with the wing totally de-powered. Getting familiar with the truly balancing on the board and zero stability assistance from the pull of the wing. Don't even need to go all the way and swap to the leading edge handle, even just totally letting go of the back hand and pumping/riding like that really helps. Once you get a sense of that and you start turning fully balanced over the foil it's just kinda happens. Had a bit of a light bulb moment when I realized that wing ding was a foil sport with some help from wind and waves and pumping rather than a wind sport. YMMV!
Thanks for info.
At the moment I feel like a passenger on a wave rather than in control, with the sup in surf I'm driving with the legs, not what I need. I like that analogy, I'm still in windsurf mode. I'm going to work on the downwind balance, find that harder than up wind. I like holding on to something to balance against. I feel like I'm balancing on a beach ball that can go anywhere at any time when down winding.
always challenging.
Select to expand quoteJonathanC said.. wing ding was a foil sport with some help from wind and waves and pumping rather than a wind sport. YMMV!
Well said, totally agree. Windsurfing background does not help you gybe, let go of the ding as early as possible.
Select to expand quote I feel like I'm balancing on a beach ball that can go anywhere at any time when down winding.
always challenging.
One tip that helped me was to constantly give the foil something to do with purpose. If you don't give clear input, the foil will "decide" on its own and give you that random, beach ball feeling. It needs that intentional input. Eventually you don't even notice that you're doing it and the foil behaves like a good boi...
Get yourself a big mast. It allows you to pull a tighter turn, gives more elevation for dropping down and gliding upwind without touching the water. After changing hands on the wing, don't forget to give a strong yank with the backhand.
When making that turn, stay over the foil. The acceleration will cause lift, so you have to counter preemptively. I see lots of folks loose their balance at this point.
Select to expand quoteJohnnyTsunami said..
My problem was carving too hard or not enough or flying too high or too low or the wing back winding.
My trick for when you are having trouble (gybing and tacking) is to forget about the wing entirely. If it's light that means getting it set up parallel to the water so it won't back wind. Then gybe putting 100% focus on your board height and leaning etc. Focus only on this, keep the wing overhead. When you've made it, try and work out the wing. Once you can do the carve consistently you can dedicate some brain power to the wing. It just too much information for a new foiler to think about the wing and the foil at the same time. You need to get one of them programmed before you can do them both together.
Completely agree with above..focus on board trim and angle.
Just keep at it. For me I have to pay 100 crashes before learning anything on foil. Each new thing I'm trying, I gotta pay up another 100 crashes. I'm so tired of crashing, but it's the only way to get better.
I can easily have a session with miles of foiling and minimal crashing, but I don't learn much on those days.
