Gong has a trademark application in for the word "Parawing", which is odd as they call their ones Lowkites. Will be interesting to see what happens because if they get it every other brand, podcast, and reviewer will have to change their names. I think it's a pretty low move.
www.trademarkelite.com/europe/trademark/trademark-detail/019156906/PARAWING
They won't get their request for trademark granted because every other brand, podcast and reviewer has been using it and it isn't brand specific. If I recall correctly, they filed a patent for the carbon plate on inflatable boards and threatened some brands. My appreciation for gong has been growing, aaaand it's gone
Select to expand quoteSnail said..
Gong has a trademark application in for the word "Parawing", which is odd as they call their ones Lowkites. Will be interesting to see what happens because if they get it every other brand, podcast, and reviewer will have to change their names. I think it's a pretty low move.
www.trademarkelite.com/europe/trademark/trademark-detail/019156906/PARAWING
Lowkites. well some creative juices were flowing around the committee desk that day.
Quote from Mr Gong. P Guenole.
"They are so many people outside of the business who do this and then ask for money. Then we have to fight to be free to use a name that is a part of our culture.
This name ? parawing ? was not registered. I did it.
I just want to protect this great sport from bad vibes.
It is free to use for anybody now.
PS : I don't use it. So it is really not about money."
The argument that he has secured it so that everyone can use it and to protect the sport from bad vibes is quite nonsensical. Everyone has been able to use it before and anyone who tries to protect the term will sooner or later be confronted with the fact that the term has been in documented use since 1965:
ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19660017784
There is also a book about Parawings by Wolf Beringer from 1996.
I find this extremely strange from Gong and am inclined not to buy anything more from them. Don't like behavior like that.
I'm not buying the "I did it for the greater good" excuse. I think they have received backlash about it and are now trying to spin it. They were trying to be sneaky about it, as they trademarked it in France last year and didn't say anything. But they got found out this time. The trademark is valid for 10 years minimum, so that's a long time to work on a "trust me bro" promise
Here is the full text of Patrice post:Select to expand quotePG wrote:
During our market monitoring, we noticed that the term "parawing" wasn't trademarked. Quite surprising, given its increasingly widespread use.
We regularly fall victim to opportunists who register such terms afterward and then attempt to extract money from us.
Obviously, these claims don't succeed, as the law protects us. Nevertheless, it's irritating and a huge waste of time.
Personally, I don't use the term "parawing," as I don't find it the most appropriate. However, to prevent someone from knocking on my door someday demanding huge sums due to its use, I went ahead and protected it-because yes, we have the means to do so.
In my opinion, beyond having the means, we also have a duty to safeguard our passions. It's the responsibility of the major players in the industry to do so.
Ultimately, I believe that BRM should be the owner of this term, as they're responsible for promoting this sport. But they're free to do as they please.
For my part, I don't intend to use it. My sole intention is to prevent anyone from bothering us (myself or others) solely to make a quick buck.
If that makes me the big bad wolf, that's unfortunate.
If someone else wants to take responsibility instead and keep this term freely available for everyone: I offer it up willingly.
I will add:
- First, read this for the reality of the threat "The global market is currently threatened by trademark trolls":
trademarklawyermagazine.com/the-dark-side-of-trademarks-confronting-the-troll-menace/
- Defending against Patent and Trademark trolls is mandatory nowadays, especially In the software industry where I worked. Business as usual. For instance, "Kitesurf" has been applied for trademark in 1999 in the US, parawing in 2000, but not used (parawing is already registered as a trademark by companies in the EU). GoFoil has patented the "foil", etc... Applying is even sufficient, even if not pushing the process to the end, as it creates a precedent to block trademark trolls. And after some years of public use of a word, fighting trademark trolls on it is easier, so you do not have to trademark the whole dictionary.
- Gong uses "lowkite" extensively so it would be easy to defend against a trademark troll on it. But not so much on "parawing", which is a new word (in EU) that seems to become the standard term, creating a dangerous situation for Gong (and everybody else). But anyways, Gong routinely trademarks ALL the sensitive terms, so they trademarked lowkite. From the start, Gong was legally attacked by its ex associates, so Patrice is quite cautious. But you can see they did NOT enforce it offensively nor even mention it on their site.
www.tmdn.org/tmview/#/tmview/detail/FR500000005086527
- Gong only applied for a trademark in the EU. US and Asian brands can - and should - do the same in the US and Asia. This shows the defensive intent, as an aggressive company would have it applied for it everywhere. So NikOnFoil, your post is irrelevant. Patrice even explicitely invites BRM to trademark parawing in the US.
Parawing is also trademarked since 1997 in the EU (Germany) anyways by www.parawing.de/ueber_uns.html
- Trademark Trolls are like guerilla groups: they can attack without fear of retaliation because they have no reputation or actual business that could suffer. The "protection" against Gong actually attacking "real" companies is that they would have much to lose by retaliation (remember, only EU) against their business and reputation.
- Just for fun to show you how trademarking common names is common. Look how man pages of trademarks on the mere "foil" word exist, and this ONLY for the US: trademarks.justia.com/search?q=foil
The number: 51078 trademarks.
- Gong is a major company, so a target for all the trolls and scammers all the time. A few days ago a scammer even created a fake Gong shop site:Gong must have all the legal tools readily available to quick make these closed.
Protecting a term with the argument that you are the good guy and otherwise the bad guys will do it doesn't work. What if Patrice sells Gong to an investor in a few years? Then could Gong move to the dark side.
To protect yourself against trademark trolls, you can simply follow the trademark applications and if someone wants to protect such a general term, file an opposition.
Once Gong has trademarked the term parawing, other companies cannot safely use the term without Gong's written consent.
Select to expand quoteNikOnFoil said..
Protecting a term with the argument that you are the good guy and otherwise the bad guys will do it doesn't work. What if Patrice sells Gong to an investor in a few years? Then could Gong move to the dark side.
To protect yourself against trademark trolls, you can simply follow the trademark applications and if someone wants to protect such a general term, file an opposition.
Once Gong has trademarked the term parawing, other companies cannot safely use the term without Gong's written consent.
You have never been in business, I rekon... nor read what I posted.
- This is mandatory practice, alas, for all businesses nowadays. When I was at IBM we traded patents by the thousands for each project with other companies. We patented things to prevent patent trolls attacks.
Gong trademarks most of the terms they use. So do all companies nowadays.
- Trademark trolls have for instance trademarked common words and then attacked companies, costing them millions and time to fight back:
- "edge"
- "app store"
- "onesie"
- "react"
- "podcast" This one was fought by Apple, and even with their huge pockets, they did not win, they had to settle. NickOnFoil, you pretend to be more powerful than Apple?
- You move on the "dark side" when you actually perform dark actions (attacking other companies). We are not in minority report.
- Other companies CAN use trademarked names. Especially to describe things, such as a "parawing". It is called Descriptive Fair Use. E.g: www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-you-need-permission-use-trademarks.html
Suppose you manufacture and sell toy building blocks shaped as bricks and figurines. But someone else owns the descriptive trademark "Building Bricks" for the same kind of product. You could still describe your product as "building bricks" in your advertising because those words happen to characterize your product.
But you wouldn't be able to name your brand of blocks "Building Bricks" because that name is already taken as a trademark.
What Gong did is preventing a rogue company to suddenly get the brand name "parawing". This protects the whole industry.
With your logic, no company would have ever try to use the term "foil" with tens of thousands of trademarks already attached.
- Prevention is better than cure. Trademarking is simple and not time or money consuming. Fighting a trademark troll is extremely costly and tiring. And in some countries, you have no recourse, they do not consider previous use, only filings. A modern CEO that would NOT trademark words that his business depends on could be attacked for malpractice.
Colas, I'm curious about that part on Descriptive Fair Use. Would that clause get around the majority of trademark trolling?
Select to expand quotezarb said..
Colas, I'm curious about that part on Descriptive Fair Use. Would that clause get around the majority of trademark trolling?
Well, you don't know until you sue. It depends on the judge interpretation, plus it varies a lot country to country.
And that's the point: suing is costly and a waste of your company time.
By having to defend yourself in court, you are fighting the trademark trolls on their ground, legal arenas. This is their only business and area of expertise. But for you a totally unnecessary cost.
It is like the saying: Don't mud wrestle with a pig, it loves it, and you will only get messy.
It is so simple to just pre-emptively trademark, that's a no brainer.
Moreover, not having attempted to trademark before will play against you in court.
PS: In France we have a famous case: the small village of Laguiole has been making renowned knives since the middle ages. But the town never thought of trademarking the name, and a trademark troll trademarked the name in 2001, and then went to extort all the artisans in Laguiole to pay him royalties. The village had to fight for 15 years, and did not win totally.
www.cabinetbouchara.com/en/the-laguiole-judicial-saga/
www.tourisme-en-aubrac.com/en/destination/le-couteau-de-laguiole/lhistoire-du-couteau-de-laguiole/
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I think this has been misplayed. Either he was trying to do the right thing, didn't think there would be a public backlash damaging Gongs reputation & has then had to publish his explanation a bit too late, or he was really trying to trademark it for his own devious purposes wondering if it would slip by unnoticed.
If it was the former an announcement of his intentions would have been less damaging (for this week anyway- we will all forget about it next week).
I haven't done any research but how were we alerted to the issue & how soon after was his explanation made public? Was there any prior media releases to it?
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt
Gong has always done it, that's part of doing business, especially nowadays.
And in all these years he has never used trademarks or patents to attack, only defend.
And imaging having a press release for each trademarking, this would be the sign that Gong is wanting to prevent the use of these words by other companies.
You can look at the 16 trademarks registered in the EU by Gong by a search for Applicant be "GONG GALAXY" at:
www.tmdn.org/tmview/#/tmview/results?page=1&pageSize=30&criteria=C&appName=GONG%20GALAXY%20Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9%20%C3%A0%20responsabilit%C3%A9%20limit%C3%A9e
Past behavior is the best proof. (*)
For instance "wingkite" is used by lots of businesses in France.
On the opposite, just wonder why some people are creating a fake outrage suddenly.
There was the same thread of on Facebook, and that was quite telling is that all the people who had actual business experience (in any domain) were in support of Gong, telling "I have to do the same in my business".
Just find a business owner, and ask her/him.
(*) you can see how the environment has evolved:
In 1995, only the brand name "Gong". The terms used in surfing, suping, kiting, ... were used widely enough to not need pre-emptive protecting, and the trademark trolls were not yet a constant threats (unlike patent trolls)
You see a bit more activity in 2018 around composed works, "Gong" only was not sufficient anymore.
And then, in 2024, pre-emptive trademarking of potentially common terms, but at risk because too young to be protected by a wide use.
Also, I have no proof, but it may be in anticipation of a commercial war between the US and China, and an international business ecosystem becoming even more dangerous.
Colas you have to stop with the bad faith arguments. Nobody uses the term "wingkite" in France. And if there's an outrage, it's because of the 16 trademarks registered by Gong, "Parawing" is the first and only generic term to be used by the public and the brands long before Gong.
No one cares if Gong trademark their logo or terms like "Gong SUP" "GONG FOIL", good for them for protecting their brand. But it doesn't seem so complicated to me to understand that the situation is completely different with the term "parawing".
Select to expand quotecolas said..You have never been in business, I rekon... nor read what I posted.
No need to get personal. However, I have a few trademarks myself. But I admit, I have only limited knowledge in that field and am not a patent attorney.
In my opinion, the fair use you mentioned does not apply to the commercial use of the term. In descriptions yes, but part of a brand name is at least debatable. If the trademark is assigned to Gong, it will make the use of the term by other companies more complicated in the least.
But I'm not a patent attorney and could be wrong. However, since Gong almost presents itself as the inventor of parawing ("we created a new sport"), there is at least the suspicion that there is something more to the story as Gong to be the rescuer of the term parawing.
That's a pity, as I've found Gong extremely likeable so far and also ride a whole series of Gong Wings.
Select to expand quoteNikOnFoil said..
is at least debatable.
That's exactly the point.
debatable = time, money, and unreliability
Why self-harm?
Select to expand quoteNikOnFoil said..
However, since Gong almost presents itself as the inventor of parawing
Where?
Please cite your sources.
Patrice never said that. He explicitely says that the concept has emerged on the scene.
E.g: "The downwind scene has seen the emergence of innovative small wings designed to replace paddles for downwind runs. "
www.gong-galaxy.com/en/blogs/magazine/gear-lowkites-innovation-and-evolution-of-wings-for-much-more-than-just-downwind
Select to expand quoteGuillaume974 said..
Colas you have to stop with the bad faith arguments. Nobody uses the term "wingkite" in France.
I just googled "wingkite" before writing this of course.
Pro tip: check your affirmations before you write them.
And you obviously do not understand what is really a trademark, a patent, etc...
Here is some reading: www.brookskushman.com/insights/generic-terms-and-trademark-protection-understanding-and-navigating-the-landscape/
As you can see, if Gong wanted to attack the use of "parawing" by other companies, it would be quite difficult for them to use it in an offensive way. But the other side of the coin means that it will be protect cheaply from trademark troll offensives.
Trademarking in this case is an efficient defense, but not for offense unless it is your business model as a trademark troll.
You even contradict yourself: you pretend that Gong has no right to "parawing", but at the same time find it dangerous. It is one or the other.
Select to expand quotecolas said..Guillaume974 said..
Colas you have to stop with the bad faith arguments. Nobody uses the term "wingkite" in France.
I just googled "wingkite" before writing this of course.
Pro tip: check your affirmations before you write them.
And you obviously do not understand what is really a trademark, a patent, etc...
www.google.fr/search?q=%22wingkite%22&cr=countryFR
No relevant results on google except one training school, never heard any brand mention this term et jamais entendu sur le moindre spot francais qui que ce soit utiliser ce mot ...
About the difference between trademark and patent, I don't know when I could have given you the impression that I didn't really understand this concepts ? No one here is suggesting that Gong patented the parawing invention. The problem is that they are seeking to register the word "parawing" as a trademark, a word they haven't created, popularized or even used yet ...
What would Patrice think if it was Fone or Duotone who had done the move ? If Raphael Salles had told him "Trust me bro you can use the word too" would that have been enough ?
Select to expand quotecolas said..
You even contradict yourself: you pretend that Gong has no right to "parawing", but at the same time find it dangerous. It is one or the other.
There's no contradiction: under European trademark rules, gong has no legitimate claim to the word "parawing". For the time being, the application is still indicated to be under examination. If the work is well done on the side of the verifying organisms, the trademark will be rejected. But if the trademark is accepted by misunderstanding Gong can make life difficult for many brands when they want to do it
Select to expand quotecolas said..Guillaume974 said..
Colas you have to stop with the bad faith arguments. Nobody uses the term "wingkite" in France.
Here is some reading: www.brookskushman.com/insights/generic-terms-and-trademark-protection-understanding-and-navigating-the-landscape/
Dude, do you even read and understand your own sources?
Your article explains the exact opposite situation of Gong and the word parawing. The case of gruyere, google, escalator and aspirin are words that started out protected under the possession of a company and became so popular that the line between trademark and generic term became confusing at one point.
The case of gong/parawing is the exact opposite: the word is already a generic term and gong is trying to get its hands on it.
wing kite is used by Decathlon, which in the past did not hesitate to use the Gong logo without permission.Select to expand quoteGuillaume974 said..
For the time being, the application is still indicated to be under examination.
PRO TIP, again: check facts before issuing bull****.
It takes 30 seconds.
Select to expand quotecolas said..NikOnFoil said..
However, since Gong almost presents itself as the inventor of parawing
Where?
Please cite your sources.
Patrice never said that. He explicitely says that the concept has emerged on the scene.
www.facebook.com/groups/174002002631963/posts/lowkite-is-on-you-were-waiting-for-something-from-us-%EF%B8%8F-we-created-a-new-sport-an/8971050216260387
Select to expand quoteGuillaume974 said..
Your article explains the exact opposite situation of Gong and the word parawing. The case of gruyere, google, escalator and aspirin are words that started out protected under the possession of a company and became so popular that the line between trademark and generic term became confusing at one point.
Again, you do not read or/and understand.
Patrice said that he did not trademark already widely used words such as "wingfoil" because their wide use for years offered enough protection. He only trademarks new, emerging words not yet in the dictionnary, such as parawing (which was used but very rarely) as these are the most at risk of trademark trolls.
I repeat that you argue that parawing could not be used offensively...
BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
It prevents offense, but provides defense.
Select to expand quote
This does not mention parawing, but lowkite, and the post is from Nov 2024.
This is not the post that has everybody excited.
Look also at the hashtags: #lowkite #gong #gonglowkite #liveforit
And the first comment:
Raaaaaaah... 1st viewing: "what do you mean we created a new sport?! It's been a few months already" ... 4th viewing: hmm ok... I get it... (he realized Patrice was speaking of the practice, different from downwinding , not the device)
You need to not just read - and misinterpret - titles.
As an exercise for the reader, try to search who trademarked surffoil, supfoil, wakefoil, windfoil...
and realize he (hint: he is Australian) never used it offensively. Because he has a legit kite business.
And it was also at the time (2017) when they were new words.
Nobody chucked a wobbly about it.
I wonder why such a smear campaign now.
