I was watching a video review of the Appletree Slice V2 and one of the comments was whether it's suitable with F-One foils, the reviewer's response was probably not as it does not have the rocker required for F-One foils.
Is anyone able to please explain what they mean by this? Are F-One foils less versatile than other brands?
If the F-one boards have a flat tail, then their foil mast could be the wrong angle on a board with some tail rocker.
That is unlikely though, as in winging (opposite to say windfoil) the tracks are far enough forward that it should be flat there. Always the chance someone made a weird banana board and if so, shim the foil to get the rake correct.
Hard to tell without actually seeing both boards so his 'probably not because, ummm maybe not enough rocker...' response is not helpful...... and no, F-One is not 'less versatile'
My first best guess from pics is that Appletree looks just as flat in the tail as all the F-One's I've seen lately so he is talking crap.
If he means nose rocker its even more a WTF from me.
Thanks for the response. It's a genuine question, Im an intermediate rider currently on Phantoms but looking to upgrade and wondering whether to stick with F-One.
I don't think I can share the link to the video (Gleiten TV on YouTube) as I'm new but I think it's the second time I've read someone mention needing rocker so was curious what the implications are.
I have heard, more than once, although I don't have the hard reference, that there is a little rake (www.windfoilen.nl/en/mast-rake-explained/) in the f-one mast which is matched by the f-one boards. This could be countered with a mast plate shim if you experience the symptoms mentioned in the rake article.
I suspect Appletree would be on top of that as they must test with all major foil brands but you could easily email them and confirm compatibility.
F One are a great product. After the phantom you should try the 7 Seas and you will be very happy.
The foils work with other boards no issues.
i heard different thing, that apple tree add a rake i dont remember if it negative or positive, i know some people that are in fone phantom and using flat no rocker on the usbox custom board and it's working well.
On my gong board the seven seas feel a little bit weird, i moved it to 7 i have like 4cm left of foil box in front and i cannot use the tnut provided by fone i have to use gong tnut otherwise i cannot insert them in the usbox.
I tried on the afs fire it's was working well but the issue , is you need longer screw ( the usbox is different) and you cannot use the fone tnut either i think.
So im looking for a fone rocket 2023 too.
It's not an issue here, f=one foil is plugged on several brand and it works good. I think where it would matter the most is if you prone foil a surf foil board and if the angle of the fuse could in theory tilt up = more lift, so popping up would be maybe tricky? While winging, the opposite is worst, if you have a fuse pointing down....you would feel the board stick before releasing...or on very small board...you will feel like when pumping and accelerating, the nose kind of digging under water on each acceleration. Same if you take any foil and same board brand that got a bit of tail rocker, if you put the foil back..it will put the angle of the fuse down.So bottom line, if you want to get crazy micro adjustment you can try mast shims and see for yourself what does what, it's a good exercice since after that, you will not if something is off and you know how to correct it, Cheers
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..
It's not an issue here, f=one foil is plugged on several brand and it works good. I think where it would matter the most is if you prone foil a surf foil board and if the angle of the fuse could in theory tilt up = more lift, so popping up would be maybe tricky? While winging, the opposite is worst, if you have a fuse pointing down....you would feel the board stick before releasing...or on very small board...you will feel like when pumping and accelerating, the nose kind of digging under water on each acceleration. Same if you take any foil and same board brand that got a bit of tail rocker, if you put the foil back..it will put the angle of the fuse down.So bottom line, if you want to get crazy micro adjustment you can try mast shims and see for yourself what does what, it's a good exercice since after that, you will not if something is off and you know how to correct it, Cheers
You are right but i will say it's foil dependant too, the phantom is front footed, the seven seas more neutral. My armstrong tho is more enjoyable with my prone foil board than it is probably for the issue you mentioned, weirdly enough it's feel more neutral on my prone board than it is on my wingboard . That is why i choosed fone , it's knowned to be plug and play easy foil.
since my armstrong foil i hate tuning my gear ! Weird because im a geek i should like fiddling with stuff.
Thanks for all the replies. By some seemingly strange coincidence Appletree have done a video today on their YouTube channel on this exact topic and highlight that their boards are neutral 90 degrees, but mast shims can be used to compensate if a particular brand of foil has a positive or negative angle.
For me, fone board has a bit of tail rocker but it is balanced by the concave under the front foot, so the feet are perpendicular with the foil...
AFAIK The F-One Foils have no rake/angle between plate and fuse, both being parallel. So the rocker of the F-One boards provides the rake to geht the nose of the board up and avoid a nose down trimm.
Slingshot Phantasm has 2 degrees rake in the foil for comparison. Since the brands don't provie this information on their foils you have to measure by yourself (level apps for your phone will do) and buy some plate shims if neccessary.
I've owned the slice v2 and used with f-one foils. I agree that i did not think it paired well. The appletree board is very flat across the whole length of the board whereas most other brands have nose rocker. I used the f-one foils with board from 4 other brands with no issues so i think in general i would say the mismatch is more due to the appletree board design than the f-one foil design.
I've used f1 foils with a couple different brands of boards but found they work/feel way nicer with the f1 boards , the f1 boards have quite a bit of tail rocker and it gives more more confidence loading for a jump or dropping down a big lump of swell also I like the front foot pressure feel.
I think a slice say it's a 3d rake on the f1 boards but levelling the deck area and holding a straight edge it looks way more to me (or I'm doing something wrong ?).
Select to expand quoteClemop said..
For me, fone board has a bit of tail rocker but it is balanced by the concave under the front foot, so the feet are perpendicular with the foil...
Yes and Appletree have just done exactly that that on one model so maybe thats what got the mast rake discussion going....?
I've got an Appletree Appleslice v2 and the new F-one HM 85 mast. I've tried the combo stock and with a 1 degree mast shim to rake the mast back emulating rocker. To me it felt better stock without the mast shim.
I've used F-One (ALL their frontwings + alu & Carbon masts) for the past +3 years on all kinds off boards incl. F-One , Fanatic, Armstron, Gong etc. and can say with 100% confidence that if a board manufacturer says F-One needs special boards they're definitely lying! And probably trying to find a excuse for their own bad design!
F-One is by far the easiest plug&play foils around - always in balance and totally interchangeable!
Select to expand quotePeteSpeed said..
I've used F-One (ALL their frontwings + alu & Carbon masts) for the past +3 years on all kinds off boards incl. F-One , Fanatic, Armstron, Gong etc. and can say with 100% confidence that if a board manufacturer says F-One needs special boards they're definitely lying! And probably trying to find a excuse for their own bad design!
F-One is by far the easiest plug&play foils around - always in balance and totally interchangeable!
Actually i partially agree, they are probably the most plug and play , yes , but there is more than a simple rake on the usbox that count !
For the shape of the board to be 100% compatible, there the box lengh and position of the box on the board ( armstrong for exemple) some got their box further back ( gong , afs) i dont know how fone board compare, as well i even see some variation on usbox box some are deeper ( afs) and need longer screw , some got larger entry ( fone tnut that i cannot put on my gong board) , and the top shape of the bord too concave bridge , bulbeous nose and front rocker top and bottom in their own they can change the position of the foil in water , the water line of the board.
Some people are not sensitive to that, like some people doesnt notice difference between fins on a surfboard.
Im probably not the best but i do notice some stuff on the fone foil on a gong board compared to a gong foil on a gong board , and to an armstrong foil on a gong board.
it's probably around 75% compatibility on my gong lemon i wont see it's 100% good due to the fact i mentionned above.
Select to expand quotePeteSpeed said..
I've used F-One (ALL their frontwings + alu & Carbon masts) for the past +3 years on all kinds off boards incl. F-One , Fanatic, Armstron, Gong etc. and can say with 100% confidence that if a board manufacturer says F-One needs special boards they're definitely lying! And probably trying to find a excuse for their own bad design!
F-One is by far the easiest plug&play foils around - always in balance and totally interchangeable!
Actually i partially agree, they are probably the most plug and play , yes , but there is more than a simple rake on the usbox that count !
For the shape of the board to be 100% compatible, there the box lengh and position of the box on the board ( armstrong for exemple) some got their box further back ( gong , afs) i dont know how fone board compare, as well i even see some variation on usbox box some are deeper ( afs) and need longer screw , some got larger entry ( fone tnut that i cannot put on my gong board) , and the top shape of the bord too concave bridge , bulbeous nose and front rocker top and bottom in their own they can change the position of the foil in water , the water line of the board.
Some people are not sensitive to that, like some people doesnt notice difference between fins on a surfboard.
Im probably not the best but i do notice some stuff on the fone foil on a gong board compared to a gong foil on a gong board , and to an armstrong foil on a gong board.
it's probably around 75% compatibility on my gong lemon i wont say it's 100% good due to the fact i mentionned above, and what im feeling on the water a little bit nose down, nosediving during take off and so on.
ps: the only way to be 100% sure is to check the position of the foil below water when somebody is on the board , and the feeling in flight, so literaly you need an aquarium of some sort for the first.
