I'm looking to upgrade to a foil with good to excellent glide BUT I'm still just getting the occasional gybe and most of my problems seem related to roll stability. I have pitch control well figured out and wing handling seems good too (I come from windfoiling).
I'd prefer a foil that I can safely "push" against to carve rather than having to actively work on keeping upright.
Currently on a hodgepodge of various foil parts I've out together. Some experiments have worked and others have not to the point of being unrideable, I'm still getting a handle on why that might be.
I'm 92kg mostly riding short period swell and so far just have a 5m wing which seems perfect most of the time. I'll look for a 3.5-4m soon however.
Thanks!
Over simplification - Both glide and roll stability come with span (for glide its aspect ratio - which span is a factor in). But with span generally comes less turny feel and increased breach potential. If you aren't nailing gybes, breaching is going to mess you up. You want something that balances giving you a high enough AR to glide, has enough lift to get you going, but also isn't so wide that turning is cumbersome or you risk throwing the tips out on a turn.
I suggest the Lift 200 HA which I found to be very stable and easy to ride. Its fairly mid aspect, stable and user friendly. It glides a turn nicely, but is somewhat hard to break out of a natural radius (which isn't a bad thing based on the description of your experience). The Kujira 1440 satisfies your needs for glide and stability, but its quite wide and will breach if leaned too much (the sharp edges might also be intimidating at your skill level). Im not as familiar with Axis or Armstrong, but I'm sure they have something that fits the bill as well.
Select to expand quoteVelocicraptor said..
Over simplification - Both glide and roll stability come with span (for glide its aspect ratio - which span is a factor in). But with span generally comes less turny feel and increased breach potential. If you aren't nailing gybes, breaching is going to mess you up. You want something that balances giving you a high enough AR to glide, has enough lift to get you going, but also isn't so wide that turning is cumbersome or you risk throwing the tips out on a turn.
I suggest the Lift 200 HA which I found to be very stable and easy to ride. Its fairly mid aspect, stable and user friendly. It glides a turn nicely, but is somewhat hard to break out of a natural radius (which isn't a bad thing based on the description of your experience). The Kujira 1440 satisfies your needs for glide and stability, but its quite wide and will breach if leaned too much (the sharp edges might also be intimidating at your skill level). Im not as familiar with Axis or Armstrong, but I'm sure they have something that fits the bill as well.
Kujira Helium - either 1750 or 1500...
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..Velocicraptor said..
Over simplification - Both glide and roll stability come with span (for glide its aspect ratio - which span is a factor in). But with span generally comes less turny feel and increased breach potential. If you aren't nailing gybes, breaching is going to mess you up. You want something that balances giving you a high enough AR to glide, has enough lift to get you going, but also isn't so wide that turning is cumbersome or you risk throwing the tips out on a turn.
I suggest the Lift 200 HA which I found to be very stable and easy to ride. Its fairly mid aspect, stable and user friendly. It glides a turn nicely, but is somewhat hard to break out of a natural radius (which isn't a bad thing based on the description of your experience). The Kujira 1440 satisfies your needs for glide and stability, but its quite wide and will breach if leaned too much (the sharp edges might also be intimidating at your skill level). Im not as familiar with Axis or Armstrong, but I'm sure they have something that fits the bill as well.
Kujira Helium - either 1750 or 1500...
I'm avoiding them due to quality concerns. Near design but just not there for construction.
Also: I'm currently on a 1300 mid aspect and it's fine in terms of bottom end. I'd expect to be looking for no bigger than a 1400 HA.
Slingshot Phantasm PTM 926
Fanatic Aero HA 1250
these foil sets have good glide and good stability. very easy to ride and jibe. Stable for straightening and foot switching. Not that responsive for pumping, although that can be changed w/ shorter fuselages and/or smaller stabs.
I would recommend something like the F-One Phantom 1480 or 1280. Mid-high aspect, large wingspan. Medium thin, so fine glide and low stall speed. I can pump the 1280 and 1480 for days, the 1480 is my dock-starting pumping foil of choice aswell at the moment. I find the Phantom more stable than the gravity series (because they are flatter), but still very nice to turn. If you want even more stability & glide you might look into the new seven seas, but I haven't tried those. They're a little more high aspect, flatter and thinner, so faster and more glide, but at the expense of turning and low stall speed.
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I would recommend something like the F-One Phantom 1480 or 1280. Mid-high aspect, large wingspan. Medium thin, so fine glide and low stall speed. I can pump the 1280 and 1480 for days, the 1480 is my dock-starting pumping foil of choice aswell at the moment. I find the Phantom more stable than the gravity series (because they are flatter), but still very nice to turn. If you want even more stability & glide you might look into the new seven seas, but I haven't tried those. They're a little more high aspect, flatter and thinner, so faster and more glide, but at the expense of turning and low stall speed.
I would second the F-One Phantom. As soon as I started flying the 1480 my Jibe percentage (both heel to tow and tow to heel) went high up
in all conditions. I have the GoFoil GT1400, the axis 1010 and the Slingshot Phantasm 926 and the F-one works best for me by far. The Phantasm is a close second but not in all conditions.
I have the F-one Seven Seas 1200 on order. Riders that tested it report that it has the Phantom DNA with better glide so that might
be an option to consider.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
You mentioned flatter= more stable.
What else makes a foil stable?
Larger stabiliser,Light winds I use a a 450 with a 2140 to damn easy
What about stab shape. Naish has both flat and tips up. F-one is tips up. Starboard is tips down.
Others are basically flat (Axis?)
What effect does this have?
Grant, I'm sure you're welcome to try one the various brands' foils at our local. You can try my Armstrong mid aspects (1850 or 1250) or try the HA1125 which might be a little challenging but will glide through jibes. I'm sure you'd enjoy the Axis foils that a few of the guys seem to like here. The Axis rigs I've tried locally have all felt quite stable with nice glide, great pumping, and ease of use. My set up may initially feel more twitchy (exception being the 1850 which is easy to ride) but it may give the turning you're looking for. You might also try a different board like the Quatro/KT or Armstrong. Again, happy to let you try mine.
Down or upturned tips in the stab help with tracking and yaw stability. Increasing the stab angle to a point can add a little stability as well as increased lift/drag (not always a bad thing if you want the rig to calm down a bit). A longer fuse can help settle things down too.
Hop on a bunch of rigs and go from there!
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..Hop on a bunch of rigs and go from there!
I would second that.
GoFoil GT series would fit the bill.
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
Grant, I'm sure you're welcome to try one the various brands' foils at our local. You can try my Armstrong mid aspects (1850 or 1250) or try the HA1125 which might be a little challenging but will glide through jibes. I'm sure you'd enjoy the Axis foils that a few of the guys seem to like here. The Axis rigs I've tried locally have all felt quite stable with nice glide, great pumping, and ease of use. My set up may initially feel more twitchy (exception being the 1850 which is easy to ride) but it may give the turning you're looking for. You might also try a different board like the Quatro/KT or Armstrong. Again, happy to let you try mine.
Down or upturned tips in the stab help with tracking and yaw stability. Increasing the stab angle to a point can add a little stability as well as increased lift/drag (not always a bad thing if you want the rig to calm down a bit). A longer fuse can help settle things down too.
Hop on a bunch of rigs and go from there!
Planning to borrow Mark's Axis PNG next suitable day (looks like Thursday).
Also considering 2022 Starboard high aspect wings, they'd work with my existing masts/tails.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..Windoc said..
Grant, I'm sure you're welcome to try one the various brands' foils at our local. You can try my Armstrong mid aspects (1850 or 1250) or try the HA1125 which might be a little challenging but will glide through jibes. I'm sure you'd enjoy the Axis foils that a few of the guys seem to like here. The Axis rigs I've tried locally have all felt quite stable with nice glide, great pumping, and ease of use. My set up may initially feel more twitchy (exception being the 1850 which is easy to ride) but it may give the turning you're looking for. You might also try a different board like the Quatro/KT or Armstrong. Again, happy to let you try mine.
Down or upturned tips in the stab help with tracking and yaw stability. Increasing the stab angle to a point can add a little stability as well as increased lift/drag (not always a bad thing if you want the rig to calm down a bit). A longer fuse can help settle things down too.
Hop on a bunch of rigs and go from there!
Planning to borrow Mark's Axis PNG next suitable day (looks like Thursday).
Also considering 2022 Starboard high aspect wings, they'd work with my existing masts/tails.
2022 starboard foils have looked very impressive, but can't find anyone that sells them.
The racing setup looks super impressive!
Lots of dealers on this side of the pond.
I believe the race foil setup borrows many parts from their windfoil range.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
Lots of dealers on this side of the pond.
I believe the race foil setup borrows many parts from their windfoil range.
Given MZ uses the bullet masts for their winging range. I dare say the wind range isn't a bad place to take pieces from.
I just wish that there were at least a few reviews of the Starboard stuff, for some reason they just don't get the press of other gear.
I'm planning to try a PNG1050 tomorrow if the weather cooperates.
Interested in hearing Axis recommendations (easy w/ glide) also,
I'm using an Axis 1150 PNG, short red fuse and 400 freeride rear but I don't have anything else to compare and totally new to Winging.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
I just wish that there were at least a few reviews of the Starboard stuff, for some reason they just don't get the press of other gear.
Same here. I sure wish there were more reviews on their foils, since they look really interesting.
I'm just getting into wing foiling, and I ordered a Starboard S-2400 foil (I'm 110kg).
I am a big fan of the Starboard brand for SUPs and they have a long windsurf heritage. So I expect their quality is good. Much like in SUP and windsurf.
Regarding the OP question. I shaped my own board at 135l, so +25 liters. I went a bit longer (6'6) and narrower, and moved the foil boxes forward similar to Armstrong.
So I'm hoping it will be good for me to progress on for a while, and still be easy to whip around depending on foil placement.
Select to expand quotehilly said..Windoc said..Hop on a bunch of rigs and go from there!
I would second that.
GoFoil GT series would fit the bill.
There are a few local riders with GT you could probably try. You are welcome to try my Gofoil RS or NLs if we are the beach together. That's the nice thing about winging, pretty easy to jump on someone else's board and do a couple reaches, especially in a spot where there's no real dangers to be concerned about.
Select to expand quoteMarTrench said..
Interested in hearing Axis recommendations (easy w/ glide) also,
I'm using an Axis 1150 PNG, short red fuse and 400 freeride rear but I don't have anything else to compare and totally new to Winging.
The axis HPS range has decent glide and very user friendly, the best glide comes from the higher aspect ART range, they appear hard to use and difficult to start, however in comparison to the Armstrong HA range it's heaps better, very easy to start and doesn't do the pump up then drop that some other foils do (as long as you have some speed through the water) testing the axis ART 1099 I have just been blown away by its glide and ease of pumping and it's surprisingly low stall speed.
See if you can demo the Gofoil RS 1150, it does everything: fast, good glide, manoeuvrable, very breach resistant, great low end. I'm the same weight as you and was skeptical that l could ride a foil that small on a regular basis, but tried it (based on Hilly's recommendations) and was amazed. Have now switched over from Armstrong to Gofoil, because I couldn't find a small Armstrong foil I liked.
If you want something slightly bigger, Gofoil GT 1400 is also great.
Should also mention that Armstrong boards don't work well with these Gofoils, tracks are too far forward and too much tail rocker.
Select to expand quoteoliverp said..MarTrench said..
Interested in hearing Axis recommendations (easy w/ glide) also,
I'm using an Axis 1150 PNG, short red fuse and 400 freeride rear but I don't have anything else to compare and totally new to Winging.
The axis HPS range has decent glide and very user friendly, the best glide comes from the higher aspect ART range, they appear hard to use and difficult to start, however in comparison to the Armstrong HA range it's heaps better, very easy to start and doesn't do the pump up then drop that some other foils do (as long as you have some speed through the water) testing the axis ART 1099 I have just been blown away by its glide and ease of pumping and it's surprisingly low stall speed.
Get the HPS1050, amazing glide, fast and easy to jybe. Love the Axis system.
