I have an 1800 Naish HA and I can gybe on both sides 80% of the time in flat water. It's not effortless as I feel like the glide is not all there with this foil. In chop it's about 50% of the time but only on one side. The other side I'm useless.
I am wondering if another foil setup would help or if I need to just keep working on it.
Select to expand quoteJakeDawg69 said..
I have an 1800 Naish HA and I can gybe on both sides 80% of the time in flat water. It's not effortless as I feel like the glide is not all there with this foil. In chop it's about 50% of the time but only on one side. The other side I'm useless.
I am wondering if another foil setup would help or if I need to just keep working on it.
I haven't ridden that foil, but based on the dimensions, I'm a little surprised that you say it won't glide. If the issue is truly a lack of glide (I question this), then you just need a more efficient foil, which often means higher aspect.
I wonder whether your issue is that you are breaching your outside tip because you are leaning into the turn too hard. Chop makes it easier to breach since there are troughs and it is harder to gauge your tolerance to the water surface. Maybe try not to lean into the turn as much. Get some speed into the turn, luff out, take your time, glide downwind and let the turn come around naturally. Don't force it or lean into it too much.
A lower aspect foil won't breach as much, but it generally won't glide as much either. I find that the lack of glide on a lower aspect foil makes it harder to handle and you need to force it around a turn more versus a higher aspect foil which allows you to slow down the components of the turn without losing lift.
Don't trick yourself into thinking that throwing $$$ at a foil is going to be a game changer. Better off focusing on technique.
try focusing on the chop as positive. I have a harder time with maneuvers without it. It's free energy. Work on tapping into it going straight ( foil high gentle pump) then translate that to the gybe. Speed before, focus on turn(use some chop to redirect), switch late(helps the wing to pop through faster)
Hey Jake DAWG,
I ride the HA1800 and seem to be at about your level when it comes to gybes. I think you will find it is mostly technique.
Just as an example, If I ride a lot in flat water, (usually a north east breeze) I think I am the king of world when it comes to gybing, speed, making the foil do my bidding. Then when the wind is from the other direction (southerly) and I ride in the swells that roll in from the Pacific ocean into Botany Bay, man do I spend a lot of time swearing and getting back up on that damn board.
That said, after a few sessions in the swells and the wind goes back to North East, I have a greater set of skills for those flat water sessions.
I agree that the HA 1800 does not glide when you use the basic settings, I now use a HA240 rear wing with 1' shim under the back edge, improved the glide from my perspective.
Cheers,
Gary
Select to expand quoteJakeDawg69 said..
I have an 1800 Naish HA and I can gybe on both sides 80% of the time in flat water. It's not effortless as I feel like the glide is not all there with this foil. In chop it's about 50% of the time but only on one side. The other side I'm useless.
I am wondering if another foil setup would help or if I need to just keep working on it.
I'm your weight and I have most foil sizes in the Naish range.. My favorite is the big 2140 HA and I use it in most conditions.. I can often keep up with friends on their foils half its size so it's fast and it has excellent glide..
When ever I go to smaller foils I really miss the glide of the big 2140.. I'm sure it's a technique thing to make smaller foils glide better but I'm thinking being heavy doesn't help..
If your mast is under 85cm I'd recommend getting a longer one and you will notice a big difference with it letting you glide longer being higher up off the water and also without needing to pump the foil mid gybe.. Longer masts are especially noticable in choppy water..
The 1800 HA is a great all round foil for you at your weight but if you get a chance to try the bigger 2140 do it.. Blowing gybes is choppy water and having a favoured side is common.. so just keep working on it.. 
Hi Jake,
I was having the exact same problem trying to gybe in chop with my Naish HA1240 foil. I started out with a low aspect Jet 2000 foil, then a Jet 1650 foil, as I couldn't hold the 2000 down with my weight (73 Kilos) , and even the 1650 was easily overpowered. so I got an HA 1240., because the advertising said High Aspect was the way to go.!
Certainly the HA 1240 was faster , but I felt every twitch and bump when riding in chop, especially up wind, and the foil was hard for 'ME' to control when attempting to gybe in chop. too sensitive for my skill level? OK it's glide is excellent, and it's brilliant in flattish conditions, but add some chop, and it's becomes more difficult.
So I bought the JET 1250 foil, and stabiliser , it seemed a retrograde step, and it is if you want flat out speed, and early foiling, But, the Gybe success rate went through the roof ! The lower aspect although not so 'efficient' , smooths out the stutters in the chop, is not so sensitive, carves tighter, and is more forgiving, much more 'surfy' .
OK it is not so fast in a straight line, but the lower aspect ratio is so much easier to gybe, and play around with.
I noted in your message that you were concerned about glide, so was I, and thought more glide would sort it. for me a comfortable friendly platform to work from, made everything easier.
Select to expand quoteitsREDMAN said..
Hey Jake DAWG,
I ride the HA1800 and seem to be at about your level when it comes to gybes. I think you will find it is mostly technique.
Just as an example, If I ride a lot in flat water, (usually a north east breeze) I think I am the king of world when it comes to gybing, speed, making the foil do my bidding. Then when the wind is from the other direction (southerly) and I ride in the swells that roll in from the Pacific ocean into Botany Bay, man do I spend a lot of time swearing and getting back up on that damn board.
That said, after a few sessions in the swells and the wind goes back to North East, I have a greater set of skills for those flat water sessions.
I agree that the HA 1800 does not glide when you use the basic settings, I now use a HA240 rear wing with 1' shim under the back edge, improved the glide from my perspective.
Cheers,
Gary
Could you describe or show your shimming method with the Naish foil? I am feeling it could be helpful but if you could provide a head start on the tools and methods I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Seastudent
Select to expand quoteSeastudent said..itsREDMAN said..
Hey Jake DAWG,
I ride the HA1800 and seem to be at about your level when it comes to gybes. I think you will find it is mostly technique.
Just as an example, If I ride a lot in flat water, (usually a north east breeze) I think I am the king of world when it comes to gybing, speed, making the foil do my bidding. Then when the wind is from the other direction (southerly) and I ride in the swells that roll in from the Pacific ocean into Botany Bay, man do I spend a lot of time swearing and getting back up on that damn board.
That said, after a few sessions in the swells and the wind goes back to North East, I have a greater set of skills for those flat water sessions.
I agree that the HA 1800 does not glide when you use the basic settings, I now use a HA240 rear wing with 1' shim under the back edge, improved the glide from my perspective.
Cheers,
Gary
Could you describe or show your shimming method with the Naish foil? I am feeling it could be helpful but if you could provide a head start on the tools and methods I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Seastudent
It's pretty easy.. You can either shim with 3D printed shim.. or just a s/s washer.. or even use couple of bread ties and they work well.. You can use one, two or three or them.. Just experiment and see what works best.
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..Seastudent said..itsREDMAN said..
Hey Jake DAWG,
I ride the HA1800 and seem to be at about your level when it comes to gybes. I think you will find it is mostly technique.
Just as an example, If I ride a lot in flat water, (usually a north east breeze) I think I am the king of world when it comes to gybing, speed, making the foil do my bidding. Then when the wind is from the other direction (southerly) and I ride in the swells that roll in from the Pacific ocean into Botany Bay, man do I spend a lot of time swearing and getting back up on that damn board.
That said, after a few sessions in the swells and the wind goes back to North East, I have a greater set of skills for those flat water sessions.
I agree that the HA 1800 does not glide when you use the basic settings, I now use a HA240 rear wing with 1' shim under the back edge, improved the glide from my perspective.
Cheers,
Gary
Could you describe or show your shimming method with the Naish foil? I am feeling it could be helpful but if you could provide a head start on the tools and methods I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Seastudent
It's pretty easy.. You can either shim with 3D printed shim.. or just a s/s washer.. or even use couple of bread ties and they work well.. You can use one, two or three or them.. Just experiment and see what works best.
Thanks David. Just what I was looking for.
JakeDawg, I think this has happened to heaps of us when learning. Preferred side is better. Flat conditions easy, add in chop and it's a nightmare. The chop definitely upsets the foil so keep working on it. The thing that really helped me in rough conditions was having a long fuse, which stabilised the pitch a lot and made it much easier to get around. It deadens the pumping a bit, but I'm willing to have that compromise.
I've got a more advanced foil now and am finding the learning process has begun all over again.
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..Seastudent said..itsREDMAN said..
Hey Jake DAWG,
I ride the HA1800 and seem to be at about your level when it comes to gybes. I think you will find it is mostly technique.
Just as an example, If I ride a lot in flat water, (usually a north east breeze) I think I am the king of world when it comes to gybing, speed, making the foil do my bidding. Then when the wind is from the other direction (southerly) and I ride in the swells that roll in from the Pacific ocean into Botany Bay, man do I spend a lot of time swearing and getting back up on that damn board.
That said, after a few sessions in the swells and the wind goes back to North East, I have a greater set of skills for those flat water sessions.
I agree that the HA 1800 does not glide when you use the basic settings, I now use a HA240 rear wing with 1' shim under the back edge, improved the glide from my perspective.
Cheers,
Gary
Could you describe or show your shimming method with the Naish foil? I am feeling it could be helpful but if you could provide a head start on the tools and methods I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Seastudent
It's pretty easy.. You can either shim with 3D printed shim.. or just a s/s washer.. or even use couple of bread ties and they work well.. You can use one, two or three or them.. Just experiment and see what works best.
Hey Seastudent,
David John has it right, I used a plastic card ( like a credit card in thickness)cut to size with a hole punched through. Wish I had thought of the bread bag tie, If you want to go the 3D printed shim route, check out KD foils website and in amongst all the good info and toys you will find the files for 3D printing of shims for naish tail wings. If I recall correctly he has a 1' and a 2' shim file available for free.
Get your mind off the wing and focus on your flight. If you can do S turns you can jibe. You can chase gear and shims but better to fix the root cause.Move the wing parallel to the sea and out of the way into a neutral place for the jibe so you can forget about it for 2 seconds.
Select to expand quoteJohnnyTsunami said..
Get your mind off the wing and focus on your flight. If you can do S turns you can jibe. You can chase gear and shims but better to fix the root cause.Move the wing parallel to the sea and out of the way into a neutral place for the jibe so you can forget about it for 2 seconds.
+1
Select to expand quoteJohnnyTsunami said..
Get your mind off the wing and focus on your flight. If you can do S turns you can jibe. You can chase gear and shims but better to fix the root cause.Move the wing parallel to the sea and out of the way into a neutral place for the jibe so you can forget about it for 2 seconds.
Totally agree. Biggest mistake people make is keeping wing power on. Just pump through the turn and the wing wing sort itself out. If you turn on a swell you have heaps of time before you need to re- engage the wing.
Select to expand quotehilly said..JohnnyTsunami said..
Get your mind off the wing and focus on your flight. If you can do S turns you can jibe. You can chase gear and shims but better to fix the root cause.Move the wing parallel to the sea and out of the way into a neutral place for the jibe so you can forget about it for 2 seconds.
Totally agree. Biggest mistake people make is keeping wing power on. Just pump through the turn and the wing wing sort itself out. If you turn on a swell you have heaps of time before you need to re- engage the wing.
1. Technique (As Hilly said, pump through the turn.) Check the first part of this vid that shows the wind overhead and the rider just turning under it.
My experience has been that the gear can make a huge difference. I switched from a foil i couldn't gybe on to a different one and my gybe rates went from terrible to good instantly (I could already kitefoil gybe). Then I changed to a Tokuma Kujira 1210 and found my gybing got better again, the really low stall speed means you almost can't miss on the gybes as you have so much time.
