Other than looking fantastic and being light ( I assume) is there any performance advantage over the alloy mast size for size ?
There is a variation in the stiffness properties, some will prefer aluminium over carbon and vice versa depending on your riding style, the lighter usually the better, however a heavier foil may help in stabilising a low volume or sinker board, a one piece mast is technically stronger and you have less dissassembly if the box plate and fuse are one piece
Select to expand quotesteview said..
Other than looking fantastic and being light ( I assume) is there any performance advantage over the alloy mast size for size ?
They ride different. Carbon in a mast is not about weight. It's about the ride. Axis carbon masts are tapered. 20mm thick going down to 16mm thick at the foil. This puts the flex down low by the foil. A constant thickness mast, all aluminums masts, plus some carbon masts like No Limitz and Cedrus, all flex up high right under the board.
The difference in ride between a mast flexing up high versus down low can be felt very clearly when fitted with massive front wings. This trick really helps you understand the feeling. Many people like the feel of the Axis carbon, but have trouble putting their finger on why. The big wings test will make it clear.
So for best feel and performance, you want the stiffest mast possible, tapered. Going for a light mast will not get you either super stiff, or tapered.
I have recently bought the 85cm Axis carbon to compliment (upgrade) my 60 and 80cm aluminium masts. I've been using the 1300 png with them.
I'm definitely not saying I'm the best rider out there - far from it. However, after 2 sessions and 3 hours on water I can't tell any significant difference from the 80cm ali and 85cm carbon masts. Maybe the carbon assists with pumping up on foil a little better? A little more feedback from the front foil? But in my opinion, the differences aren't big. If you're really trying to get good value for money, the ali gear is hard to beat.
Axis aluminium masts seem inconsistent in construction. Several friends have the 19mm and the fit to the plate ranges from firm to very loose. Loose causes bolts to break so they pack with aluminium from drink cans. Other than that and all the bits they are happy. I have carbon and no issues and am happy, they look so good.
Curious - Is the Carbon mast noticeably lighter when compared to your 80cm mast, baseplate and dodadd?Select to expand quotemartyj4 said..
I have recently bought the 85cm Axis carbon to compliment (upgrade) my 60 and 80cm aluminium masts. I've been using the 1300 png with them.
I'm definitely not saying I'm the best rider out there - far from it. However, after 2 sessions and 3 hours on water I can't tell any significant difference from the 80cm ali and 85cm carbon masts. Maybe the carbon assists with pumping up on foil a little better? A little more feedback from the front foil? But in my opinion, the differences aren't big. If you're really trying to get good value for money, the ali gear is hard to beat.
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..
Axis aluminium masts seem inconsistent in construction. Several friends have the 19mm and the fit to the plate ranges from firm to very loose. Loose causes bolts to break so they pack with aluminium from drink cans. Other than that and all the bits they are happy. I have carbon and no issues and am happy, they look so good.
That sounds like very poor quality control. like windsurfing back in the day with crap fins. I always thought axis were top quality and expect all parts to fit like a glove.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..
That sounds like very poor quality control. like windsurfing back in the day with crap fins. I always thought axis were top quality and expect all parts to fit like a glove.
It has nothing to do with quality control. It's a function of aluminum extrusions for the mast, and a socket for the base. Aluminum extrusion dies wear as they extrude, changing the mast thickness throughout the life of the die. So you design the female part to fit a mast at the, die end of life. This being when the masts run at the maximum thickness. The first masts coming out of a new die will start out thinner, making the socket fit more loose. Shimming is the solution.
This applies to any manufacturer with aluminum masts. It's why some bond the bases, to hide this manufacturing tolerance that must be, for this design.
Make the base a permanent tight fit to each mast you own, or buy carbon.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..rgmacca said..
That sounds like very poor quality control. like windsurfing back in the day with crap fins. I always thought axis were top quality and expect all parts to fit like a glove.
It has nothing to do with quality control. It's a function of aluminum extrusions for the mast, and a socket for the base. Aluminum extrusion dies wear as they extrude, changing the mast thickness throughout the life of the die. So you design the female part to fit a mast at the, die end of life. This being when the masts run at the maximum thickness. The first masts coming out of a new die will start out thinner, making the socket fit more loose. Shimming is the solution.
This applies to any manufacturer with aluminum masts. It's why some bond the bases, to hide this manufacturing tolerance that must be, for this design.
Make the base a permanent tight fit to each mast you own, or buy carbon.
I wouldn't be very chuffed if I had to start looking for coke cans to shim my brand new ?1500 foil set up. Just putting it out there.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..DWF said..rgmacca said..
That sounds like very poor quality control. like windsurfing back in the day with crap fins. I always thought axis were top quality and expect all parts to fit like a glove.
It has nothing to do with quality control. It's a function of aluminum extrusions for the mast, and a socket for the base. Aluminum extrusion dies wear as they extrude, changing the mast thickness throughout the life of the die. So you design the female part to fit a mast at the, die end of life. This being when the masts run at the maximum thickness. The first masts coming out of a new die will start out thinner, making the socket fit more loose. Shimming is the solution.
This applies to any manufacturer with aluminum masts. It's why some bond the bases, to hide this manufacturing tolerance that must be, for this design.
Make the base a permanent tight fit to each mast you own, or buy carbon.
I wouldn't be very chuffed if I had to start looking for coke cans to shim my brand new ?1500 foil set up. Just putting it out there.
Wait until you find out what happens to the carbon mast/fuse connection! Spoiler, since there is no taper to it, it wears out and you have a floppy connection requiring epoxy and/or glass to get it back to right.
Axis had a few design issues IMO and this is one of them, the second being the fuse/front wing connection being fat and only supporting the wing downwards (I snapped a front wing).
Get axis because their wings are good and they come out with products fast, but a company like fone has better connections with the front wing/fuse being one piece and the mast/fuse connection not wearing out.
That is funny. All carbon mast heads wear over time, even the tapered ones. What's awesome, is it's a 5 minute fix anyone any can do. Put epoxy on your finger, rub it on the head. Boom, tight again.
A far easier fix than all the hex/square socket brands. They won't need to release + version with twice as many screws to stop the wings and fuselages from wobbling as the resin matrix wears like others.
Plus no fragile helicoils.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
That is funny. All carbon mast heads wear over time, even the tapered ones. What's awesome, is it's a 5 minute fix anyone any can do. Put epoxy on your finger, rub it on the head. Boom, tight again.
A far easier fix than all the hex/square socket brands. They won't need to release + version with twice as many screws to stop the wings and fuselages from wobbling as the resin matrix wears like others.
Plus no fragile helicoils.
What do you think of just epoxying it all together if you don't need to take it apart for travel. mine stays in one piece, out van-board-van. I do slacken of bolts and tefgel it. Would save the need for any maintenance! And save wear on components/threads.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..DWF said..rgmacca said..
That sounds like very poor quality control. like windsurfing back in the day with crap fins. I always thought axis were top quality and expect all parts to fit like a glove.
It has nothing to do with quality control. It's a function of aluminum extrusions for the mast, and a socket for the base. Aluminum extrusion dies wear as they extrude, changing the mast thickness throughout the life of the die. So you design the female part to fit a mast at the, die end of life. This being when the masts run at the maximum thickness. The first masts coming out of a new die will start out thinner, making the socket fit more loose. Shimming is the solution.
This applies to any manufacturer with aluminum masts. It's why some bond the bases, to hide this manufacturing tolerance that must be, for this design.
Make the base a permanent tight fit to each mast you own, or buy carbon.
I wouldn't be very chuffed if I had to start looking for coke cans to shim my brand new ?1500 foil set up. Just putting it out there.
No kidding
MarTrench I didn't think there was much difference in weight. The carbon is 2.02kg for 85cm. The 80cm aluminium is 2.32 with doodad and baseplate. So a bit over 10% lighter in carbon.
OK - thanks! I'm running Axis aluminum now...Select to expand quotemartyj4 said..
MarTrench I didn't think there was much difference in weight. The carbon is 2.02kg for 85cm. The 80cm aluminium is 2.32 with doodad and baseplate. So a bit over 10% lighter in carbon.
Select to expand quotemartyj4 said..
MarTrench I didn't think there was much difference in weight. The carbon is 2.02kg for 85cm. The 80cm aluminium is 2.32 with doodad and baseplate. So a bit over 10% lighter in carbon.
16mm or 19mm mast?
Does the connection with the carbon mast prevent the mast to Fuse connection from comming loose? I'm getting frustrated with the current setup where I have a great first 45min and than the bolts loosen between the fuse and the mast.
DC
Select to expand quoteDcharlton said..
Does the connection with the carbon mast prevent the mast to Fuse connection from comming loose? I'm getting frustrated with the current setup where I have a great first 45min and than the bolts loosen between the fuse and the mast.
DC
Blue loctite worked for me for a while but ultimately had to custom fit the mast to the fuse with epoxy. You'll need mold release (tef gel works), epoxy, micro balloons, modelling clay (to stuff in the holes), and lots of tape. Now it's rock solid
Select to expand quoteDcharlton said..
Does the connection with the carbon mast prevent the mast to Fuse connection from comming loose? I'm getting frustrated with the current setup where I have a great first 45min and than the bolts loosen between the fuse and the mast.
DC
Foils running through water create vibrations that can loosen screws. They do not loosen when using Tef-Gel.
It some cases a loose screw comes from not having the fuselage seated all the way onto the mast. Once riding, the rider weight seats the fuse fully, then screw is no longer tight. This happens a lot with some carbon masts with tapered ends. It happened to me all the time with Lift foils, until the mast head finally wore out enough to make seating it fully on the beach doable.
Thanks! Still trying to figure out if the Carbon Mast is worth it. Would be good to know if it helped in preventing the screws from loosening but that seems more an issue with using Tef-Gel and ensure it's seating it correctly.
Seems like it's not much a saving on weight. It sure looks cool but not sure that's worth the xtra $$$.
I'm 95Kg and ride the 1050HPS and 890BSC both on black fuse.
DC
Select to expand quoteDcharlton said..
Thanks! Still trying to figure out if the Carbon Mast is worth it. Would be good to know if it helped in preventing the screws from loosening but that seems more an issue with using Tef-Gel and ensure it's seating it correctly.
Seems like it's not much a saving on weight. It sure looks cool but not sure that's worth the xtra $$$.
I'm 95Kg and ride the 1050HPS and 890BSC both on black fuse.
DC
The weight difference between the axis carbon vs ali mast is significantly noticeable- especially as you get into the longer masts. That said- the difference is mostly noticed on the beach/carrying your rig to the water. Getting through shore break with a lighter rig is definitely nice- easier to handle. Performance differences on the water differ according to foil span- are related to flex- are increasingly noticeable the larger span wing you use. I much prefer the carbon/it's performance with smaller foils- in the surf/prone. Using an 1150 foil winging I'm on, prefer a 90 Ali mast. The critical point to me where the flex starts to become noticeable/a negative is somewhere around 1000 wingspan. But- different strokes eh? I think a lot has to do with the minute adjustments foilers make- muscle memory... the timing/response you are used to in turns.
Recs? To me- if you're in a consistently high wind area, are mostly riding smaller foils- don't need a 1050, 1150, the carbon is the way to go. Starting out on a budget-100% I'd tell a friend to go Ali as at that point, most are probably learning on larger wings anyhow and can upgrade to carbon down the road. For best of both worlds at a price.... light and stiff and spendy- there is a Cedrus or No Limits carbon mast with adaptors.
Select to expand quoteDcharlton said..
Does the connection with the carbon mast prevent the mast to Fuse connection from comming loose? I'm getting frustrated with the current setup where I have a great first 45min and than the bolts loosen between the fuse and the mast.
DC
Hey DC, I've found that on a number of occasions the ali gear had one of the bolts locking the fuse to the mast come loose. Not so much that it would unwind, but when I go to crack all the bolts at the end of the session, I'd notice that one of them wouldn't be tight. Never had that happen with the carbon mast - both bolts have stayed tight. Perhaps the ali vibrates on my setup and not the carbon as DWF suggests?
As for weight, I find the difference insignificant. The price difference is significantly big though.
I like the carbon for the minimisation of connections/joins, ease of setup and the finish. If I was hard up for $, I'd stick with the ali.
Being the drag whore that I have become, I am extremely bothered going back to the 19 alu mast. I feel like I have figured out how to deal with the flexiness of the 999/1099 on the carbon thru muscle memory and technique. I can rip very hard, confident, powered turns on them now.
