Hi
So I have narrowed my choice of board down to one of the following.
Smik wing board 83 or 91l
Axis froth 90 or 85 l (new model)
Armstrong 75l (new shape but second hand)
Any opinions or advice? Will be paired with a naish ha foil (1400 &1240). Weight 72kg, intermediate foiler. Winging in fresh water and looking to get out in 10 to 18 knots, will be windsurfing after that.
Struggling to find much comparison on boards and in a place where demos are not really feasible, so would appreciate any opinions or thoughts.
Cheers
QT
nice to have choices
if you have more litres you can slog back or paddle back when the wind drops but the board will be less exciting, if you have less volume you may have to learn the bug start but the board will feel lively and pump more easily also it's not just board size as you know but how fast a foil you are using and what size and type of wing you are using too, some foils pair up better with some boards
Mebbe its just me but this sport seems like the least
important for board specs, basically a block of floating material to get you up on foil. I would go on volume then price.
fwiw just bought a 70L weigh 75kg's first session on it today no issues getting up with 4m wing and 925 HA in 17-20kn dropping down from 94L.
if it was me i would go armstrong if its a good price, then the smaller smik, then the axis- i know nothing about it but i'm going to assume the axis is more expensive.
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..
Mebbe its just me but this sport seems like the least
important for board specs, basically a block of floating material to get you up on foil. I would go on volume then price.
fwiw just bought a 70L weigh 75kg's first session on it today no issues getting up with 4m wing and 925 HA in 17-20kn dropping down from 94L.
if it was me i would go armstrong if its a good price, then the smaller smik, then the axis- i know nothing about it but i'm going to assume the axis is more expensive.
Board is important in low wind situations.
Get the Armstrong, you can always sell it on later, they hold value well and also has the latest track design so less likely to be out of date.
Eppo, bigtone667 - don't agree that the type of board is important for low wind or high aspect.
The largest impact on riding in low wind is volume, the actual board brand/type/design is moot. I don't think the shape or width or length makes that huge a difference compared with volume. And why would it make a difference what foil you have?
i am not saying that there is no difference between two boards of same volume, but whatever differences there are are eclipsed by adding some litreage. Which is why the OP's description of the boards focus on that rather than the length, width or the design of channel, chines etc.
my point being, why pay say $3k for a PPC vs $1200 for a starboard- for most riders getting the volume right is a bigger priority.
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..
Eppo, bigtone667 - don't agree that the type of board is important for low wind or high aspect.
The largest impact on riding in low wind is volume, the actual board brand/type/design is moot. I don't think the shape or width or length makes that huge a difference compared with volume. And why would it make a difference what foil you have?
i am not saying that there is no difference between two boards of same volume, but whatever differences there are are eclipsed by adding some litreage. Which is why the OP's description of the boards focus on that rather than the length, width or the design of channel, chines etc.
my point being, why pay say $3k for a PPC vs $1200 for a starboard- for most riders getting the volume right is a bigger priority.
For me, the main criteria is easy to get back on and going when I fall off, this varies from person to person. Being large and old volume is important followed by weight, light is right. Short is good but not the ultimate, I tow foil on tiny boards it does not feel so amazing I want to wing a prone board. Boards with concave decks are easier to balance than equivalent volume boards so shape should be considered. From list above I would go Armstrong, Smik and then Axis but price may be a consideration, then the Smik is a clear winner.
My entire foiling setup is based on car dimensions- I just need the 725 wing so i can slot the whole lot in without disassembly, 925 is slightly too wide!
Once you've tried a recessed deck board its hard to go back, therefore Armstrong
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..
Eppo, bigtone667 - don't agree that the type of board is important for low wind or high aspect.
The largest impact on riding in low wind is volume, the actual board brand/type/design is moot. I don't think the shape or width or length makes that huge a difference compared with volume. And why would it make a difference what foil you have?
I agree volume is critical for the average winger .. but a super flat board with a square end will generally come up onto the foil faster and with less effort than a board with huge rocker and pin tail (for example) in light wind. In 10 to 12 knots, that board can actually be the difference between a fun enjoyable session and a slog.
We do a lot of light wind winging on the east coast, and the winning light board is a 150 litre homemade version of the 95L fanatic.
For 15 knots+, who cares.
I am fully supportive of buying the right vehicle to remove the pain associated with disassembly.
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..
Eppo, bigtone667 - don't agree that the type of board is important for low wind or high aspect.
The largest impact on riding in low wind is volume, the actual board brand/type/design is moot. I don't think the shape or width or length makes that huge a difference compared with volume. And why would it make a difference what foil you have?
i am not saying that there is no difference between two boards of same volume, but whatever differences there are are eclipsed by adding some litreage. Which is why the OP's description of the boards focus on that rather than the length, width or the design of channel, chines etc.
my point being, why pay say $3k for a PPC vs $1200 for a starboard- for most riders getting the volume right is a bigger priority.
I tend to agree with bigtone667 and Eppo.
Board can really make a difference, dependent on conditions, and foil type. Perhaps, in the earlier days of foiling with less foil options (no HA wings) and less refined boards, the board didn't make much difference, but I have had several boards of all shapes and sizes and have found that in marginal winds or gusty winds with big lulls, and dependent on foil shape and size, the board (shape, weight, foil placement relative to your brand of foil, length etc) can make a significant difference (often between a great session and frustrating one).
Of course, when it is pumping wind, you can pretty much launch on any old stick... but unless you live in Maui with a consistent 20-30 knots, board shape, length, weight and other nuances of design can come into play.
When it's marginal, and particularly if you are playing in any sizeable surf, take off speed/ease are highly desirable, especially if you are wanting to fun a faster, higher aspect, smaller front foil. If it's offshore and super gusty, similarly you want that quick and easy take off,thatboard shape, and particularly board weight (for a given volume) can make or break your session. I like to go out in big waves - but don't always have the 18-20+ knots to go with it - then I am going with my 6'1"108ltr Wing Sup, which is designed for take off speed and ease (I am 85kg), but ride a really small front HA foil to handle the big surf.
I have found that if you can get carbon/extra light construction, so you get a very light board... it is a game changer for take offs on small foils and light winds, as well as a very different feel once up on foil - a larger board that is much lighter than the normal (I have a 6'1" 108ltr One SUP foil board that weighs 5.8kg) will feel a lot smaller and more manoeuvrable than heavier boards in the same length and volume. I have also have a 5'8" 90ltr that weighs 5.4kg and it feels as or more responsive than my previous 5'0" board at 75ltrs which was weighing in at just under 6kg.
So... yeah.. my take is that although volume is critical for a lot of wingers and seems to the be the most talked about variable on a wing foil board... shape-volume-length-weight all make a difference too...
I can see the benefit of less weight, but most of the boards advertised weight sits around 6kg and the weight differences are from the size not the brand, even the full carbon don't seem that much lighter - in my mind first decide what volume you want, then look at value for money.
As an example the difference between a smik and a fanatic TE is $1000 and the smik is lighter.
is the Fanatic performance worth an extra grand? Even if the performance is that much better in low wind, for a thousand bucks you can buy another larger wing or a bigger foil for light wind, which would eclipse any board benefits, or another additional light wind board.
coming back to the OP's decision, the difference between 75L and 91L is going to be the single biggest factor- do you want a 70ish litre board or a 90ish litre board? Having an extra 20L and positive buoyancy is going to make more difference than the board shape.
If you're comparing the 91L Smik and the 90L axis then same as above example, it comes down to whether you think there is a $1200 improvement in performance from one to the other. My feel - nope.
buy the cheap one, and spend the money on something that really opens up your range (eg wing or foil).
I'm not saying board shape, weight etc has no effect- just that the gross level effects are much larger for the options provided. If you're looking at a particular volume then sure having a wider board for stability or longer board to improve takeoff, but the range of pricing is ridiculous, smik/sunova around $1000, PPC/Armstrong $3k plus.
tldr; spend $2k on extra wings and foils first rather than dropping it on a board.
@CH3MTR4IL5 is right, spend your money on a better foil or wing and demo if you can before splashing 2-3K on a board.
IMO the only board you need is a fanatic pink 2022 model in the desired volume, it does everything you need in a board, doesn't track when touching down (avoid double chimes), releases from the water and starts very well.
You can get two boards almost for the price of one of the expensive brands, which you'll soon discover is required winging
Given the same volume then shape has everything to do with it. And the more you use HA foils the more important it becomes because you need more easier access to board speed. But yeh agree above with splashing limited funds on a decent foil before prioritising the board. Then again the foil you get will
also influence the type of board as well. Smik boards are good value. 2500 plus for say armie boards is pretty outrageous really. But hey can't take money with ya - spend and enjoy !!!
ps I hate wide boards. Narrower (within treason) the better!! Might be more stable on the start game (which improves anyhow ) but the yaw on turns is so annoying.
Being very lucky to have opportunity to test numerous boards even with the same volume, but short and long, thick and thin etc. I must say that longer boards are easier to accelerate, but not as nice to ride when airborne. I currently have 6 boards in use and foils from 4 manufacturers. For example I have about 100 liter 150cm long and 80 l 170cm. Only moment when additional 20 liters for me at 85kg is advantage is really slow speed. As soon as speed is close to walking speed longer board starts gliding easier and accelerates so that I can pop up to the foil.
I just received Armstrong 75l board, but I've only been riding it in fairly strong winds so far. It feels bigger than 75l in a water, but smaller in the air. Also my initial feeling is that it accelerates well for its size, but maybe not as good as 80l 170cm board I have. Good acceleration is crucial for light wind + smallish high aspect foil combination. It's worth to mention that currently I don't own any wing larger than 4.5m2.
When buying board, one thing to look at is the length of the foilbox and its location. One of my boards cannot be used with Armstrong foil, because of short box far back, but works well with Axis.
Thanks for all feedback so far, I think the range of opinions reflects the huge differences in gear, spots and ability/weight.
Strangely enough all those boards are a similar price for me, so $ not really a factor.
I have a chance to test the armstrong hopefully this weekend, so that will shape my decision. If it goes well then decision made, if not then I'll be leaning towards 90l. Bearing in mind I am looking at mostly lighter winds only, the freestyle/wave windsurf gear comes out when it's 20 knots+
I'm the 90l range for some reason I'm drawn to the shape of the smik as oppose to the axis.
Tried the 75l armstrong last night. Good fun once I got the hang of it, but as my gybijg and tacks have a long way to go I am thinking a few more liters will will nice to start with restarts until I'm falling less.
So its down to the 93l smik or 90l Axis, shaped bottom vs flat.
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..
I can see the benefit of less weight, but most of the boards advertised weight sits around 6kg and the weight differences are from the size not the brand, even the full carbon don't seem that much lighter - in my mind first decide what volume you want, then look at value for money.
As an example the difference between a smik and a fanatic TE is $1000 and the smik is lighter.
is the Fanatic performance worth an extra grand? Even if the performance is that much better in low wind, for a thousand bucks you can buy another larger wing or a bigger foil for light wind, which would eclipse any board benefits, or another additional light wind board.
coming back to the OP's decision, the difference between 75L and 91L is going to be the single biggest factor- do you want a 70ish litre board or a 90ish litre board? Having an extra 20L and positive buoyancy is going to make more difference than the board shape.
If you're comparing the 91L Smik and the 90L axis then same as above example, it comes down to whether you think there is a $1200 improvement in performance from one to the other. My feel - nope.
buy the cheap one, and spend the money on something that really opens up your range (eg wing or foil).
I'm not saying board shape, weight etc has no effect- just that the gross level effects are much larger for the options provided. If you're looking at a particular volume then sure having a wider board for stability or longer board to improve takeoff, but the range of pricing is ridiculous, smik/sunova around $1000, PPC/Armstrong $3k plus.
tldr; spend $2k on extra wings and foils first rather than dropping it on a board.
agreed
Select to expand quoteQtwind said..
Tried the 75l armstrong last night. Good fun once I got the hang of it, but as my gybijg and tacks have a long way to go I am thinking a few more liters will will nice to start with restarts until I'm falling less.
So its down to the 93l smik or 90l Axis, shaped bottom vs flat.
And possibly the position of the box (to consider if you plan on using foils that like to move forward - e.g. Armstrong, kujira ) ...
Select to expand quoteQtwind said..
Tried the 75l armstrong last night. Good fun once I got the hang of it, but as my gybijg and tacks have a long way to go I am thinking a few more liters will will nice to start with restarts until I'm falling less.
So its down to the 93l smik or 90l Axis, shaped bottom vs flat.
Ordered myself an Axis 90l today. Decided the flat bottom and square tail shape are best suited to my lower wind aspirations, with limited wind swell. I really liked the look of the smik, but looks like too much of a surf or high wind shape for my needs. Hopefully the summer winds don't dissapear too quickly.
I'm looking for a new wing board and am considering Axis. Would love to hear your review as well as get info on the weight.
I'm currently riding a 95L Sky wing and have ordered the 75L Axis Froth. This board seems like it ticked all the boxes for me (no radical shapes or concepts, lightweight, neutral buoyancy for my weight). Supply chain issues are holding it up but will be curious to see how the transition goes to a board that is 20L less (I weigh 70kg). Time will tell if I will keep my 95L for the lightwind days and to teach friends or if I simplify and sell the 95L.
Select to expand quoteHoloholo said..
I'm looking for a new wing board and am considering Axis. Would love to hear your review as well as get info on the weight.
First session last night with my new 90l froth,. hHadn't planned on 20 to 25 knots but shouldn't complain! With its short length it didn't really feel bigger than the armstrong 75l, but obviously more float. Couldn't really judge its light wind ability though, didn't take much to get on the foil in that kind of wind lol. My main issue is my inability to gybe well being exaggerated in large lake swell, so I had lots of practice restarting.
I haven't weighed the board, but feels heavier than armstrong 75 on land, can't say I noticed it on the water though. The board is very solid construction, unlike some other wing boards I have seen.
Looking foward to next session, hopefully a more marginal wind so I can refine my technique.
