Just curious - winging seems to be getting more momentum - equipment seems to be advancing.
boards seems smaller - less sail/mast/booms - easier to transport.
I'm intermediate windfoiler - but winging seems attractive for freeriding ?
just wondering if people have ditched the rig ?
Not yet, but my quiver seems to be transitioning, especially for higher winds. I still can't come close to being as proficient in lightwind winging as I am windfoiling and I don't ever expect to be. No matter how hard I try I can't even come close to my upwind foil angles I get windfoiling, I believe this is a combination a lack of skill with the wing, and using a wing that has a giant leading edge and less than ideal handle placement.
I don't wind foil but i havent kite foiled since i started wing foiling. I havent got rid of my kite gear yet in case the novelty wears off but can't see that happening some how.
Yep ha met kite foiled since starting to wing and rarely kite anymore. Only for a good downwinder on a SB when swells up. TT is retired just about for good.
I meant to mention that I have also stopped kitefoiling long ago, I was never that good at it anyways
Winging has yet to become as easy as windfoiling for me and it doesn't seem like it will ever have that slippery efficient feeling upwind which feels so good on the windfoil.
I started winging because I travel for work to a lot of places where I have water access (when covid is done) and bringing my windfoil gear just isn't convenient at all.
It may completely replace windfoiling for me but it definitely won't replace windsurfing itself. I'd rather be wavesailing on that gear than any form of foiling.
i am winging 90% of the time now when I'm not actually windsurfing. I like the turning and swell riding aspects of winging compared to windfoiling, and we have good wind and swell/chop conditions here in San Francisco Bay. In flat water or for going exploring, I actually like that harnessed in easy glide of windsurf foiling. While I do some basic tricks on the wing and windfoiling, the whole freestyle thing w/ winging or windfoiling isn't where my head is at, even though I'm an avid freestyle windsurfer.
For me, the best is still windsurfing ripping across the bay on a 4.0 and throwing shove-its.
To each his/her own
Never made the jump to windfoiling, but I've only windsurfed 1 time in the past 18 months. Obsessed and loving WINGfoiling!!!
Select to expand quotesunsetsailboards said..
i am winging 90% of the time now when I'm not actually windsurfing. I like the turning and swell riding aspects of winging compared to windfoiling, and we have good wind and swell/chop conditions here in San Francisco Bay. In flat water or for going exploring, I actually like that harnessed in easy glide of windsurf foiling. While I do some basic tricks on the wing and windfoiling, the whole freestyle thing w/ winging or windfoiling isn't where my head is at, even though I'm an avid freestyle windsurfer.
For me, the best is still windsurfing ripping across the bay on a 4.0 and throwing shove-its.
To each his/her own
You make a good point about flat water exploring on - well for me, kitefoiling. Yeh it still is superior for that I must admit. Did some great upwind exploring at Exmouth this year. But if there are waves / swell kite foiling, well it just doesn't work. Tried and tried and ... even lent a cloud 7m kite for a year from a mate. Nope it sucks. You always outrun the swell unless you dog along.
I sold my windfoil board to get into winging.
, wing is soo much more fun to me.When to do what:
No wind and no waves: MTB
no wind but waves: SUP (tried supfoil, but it doesnt really suit our conditions)
light wind to medium wind with waves: winging
5.3/4.7 weather with small waves: winging, bigger waves wavesailing
high wind: wavesailing.
I'm happy with the speed and carving power of small foil wings (windfoil) downwind
Select to expand quoteJeroensurf said..
I sold my windfoil board to get into winging. , wing is soo much more fun to me.When to do what:
No wind and no waves: MTB
no wind but waves: SUP (tried supfoil, but it doesnt really suit our conditions)
light wind to medium wind with waves: winging
5.3/4.7 weather with small waves: winging, bigger waves wavesailing
high wind: wavesailing.
Exactly the same it'll be for me.
When starting winging i still thought i'll go windfoiling in flatwater for the speed it delivers, but after 11 sessions winging i guess i'm up to the point to cancel windfoiling.
Just winging and wave sailing.
Interestingly i found the same with supfoiling, besides the needed skills, wave conditions and crowds in the line up limited my efforts to giving it up again.
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..
I'm happy with the speed and carving power of small foil wings (windfoil) downwind
Your video really looks like you have a lot of fun. And you have a high skill level in windfoiling.
I really don't want to be unpolite or a offend you, but as i see it what you are doing is carving on the swell, doing turns you could also do on flat water. This reminds me of what a lot of wave kiters do when they "ride waves", they get pulled along by their kite like on a wakeboard rope. Sometimes there's a wave under them.
It doesn't look like your using/riding the energy of the wave a lot, more the energy of the wind.
While winging you could ride these swells by using the wave energy almost exclusively by flagging the wing.
I think that's the big difference of windfoiling and winging in wavy conditions, it's much easier to RIDE the waves with a wing.
I've been riding waves backside with my windfoiling gear too, that's really fun, but usually you outrun the waves, being too fast.
Trying to ride waves frontside down the line windfoiling is tricky stuff, controlling flight height on the wave face while the sail creates permanent balance impacts via the mastfoot. I had quite some nasty nosedives.
Wingwing makes this much easier.
But as i said, to each his own. It's just about having the most fun we can get.
Fully agree with Alex.The big difference for me is that windsurf foiling felt to me like freeriding and wing foil feels like surfing and personally thatys what i,m after.
Besides, really jealous about the sailing in a shorthy in clean green water. Even a 6mm full hooded with 6mm boots and gloves is freaking cold here.Seawater is 5-6degree, lakes around freezing point, air on the warm days 5-6degree and thursday it will be freezing again.
Can,t wait till it is spring.
Select to expand quoteAlexF said..Your video really looks like you have a lot of fun. And you have a high skill level in windfoiling.
I really don't want to be unpolite or a offend you, but as i see it what you are doing is carving on the swell, doing turns you could also do on flat water. This reminds me of what a lot of wave kiters do when they "ride waves", they get pulled along by their kite like on a wakeboard rope. Sometimes there's a wave under them.
It doesn't look like your using/riding the energy of the wave a lot, more the energy of the wind.
While winging you could ride these swells by using the wave energy almost exclusively by flagging the wing.
I think that's the big difference of windfoiling and winging in wavy conditions, it's much easier to RIDE the waves with a wing.
I've been riding waves backside with my windfoiling gear too, that's really fun, but usually you outrun the waves, being too fast.
Trying to ride waves frontside down the line windfoiling is tricky stuff, controlling flight height on the wave face while the sail creates permanent balance impacts via the mastfoot. I had quite some nasty nosedives.
Wingwing makes this much easier.
But as i said, to each his own. It's just about having the most fun we can get.
Thanks - it's definitely epic fun
I'd say we use half sail and half swell power.
We started downwinding about 3 years ago flagging the sail and just riding the swells, but quickly found the speed and ability to power carve by adding sail to swell power, addictive.
S-turning/carving/angling means outrunning the swells is not an issue even at 20+ knots downwind.
It's double the buzz downwinding in big windswells compared to flat water - that's why we froth for 25 to 30 knot days on the ocean
Super stoked to see so many newbies on the ocean this year - whether windfoiling or winging 
What a good post , I've sold all my kite & kite foil gear don't miss a bit . Windfoil is the only form of foiling I haven't tried and definitely want to try it as I'm just in awe of the upwind reach and speed these things get , just looks awesome. The wingding has a long way to go to be able to do that but the sheer simplicity, small amount of gear & cost , plus way more versatility is why it's just growing it's so fast.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
What a good post , I've sold all my kite & kite foil gear don't miss a bit . Windfoil is the only form of foiling I haven't tried and definitely want to try it as I'm just in awe of the upwind reach and speed these things get , just looks awesome. The wingding has a long way to go to be able to do that but the sheer simplicity, small amount of gear & cost , plus way more versatility is why it's just growing it's so fast.
Cheers Rob - be stoked to hear what you think when you give it a go
Yes! I started windfoiling a couple of years ago but after a series of gear failures, I sold all my wind foil kit and went to the 'dark side'. Have been winging a few months now and LOVE it. Definitely not fast and furious, and I miss the racing crowd (big in Auckland) but super easy to rig, light and way easier on my aging bod. Huge versatility and wide wind range (10-25+) with one board and a few wings. I leave the wing gear permanently in my truck and have at least doubled my time on the water and it is FUN
Do you think it would be quicker for a raw beginnner to be up foiling by going the wing option rather than windsurfer rig.
I just think that you have to be reasonably competent windsurfer to go windfoiling and that competency takes times in the water - whereas it may be possible to be winging on sup than graduate to foil etc - This will still take time but may be quicker ?
If you are a beginner who wants to wingfoil and has no windsurf experience don't waste your time going through windfoiling to wingfoiling. It would be like learning to snowboard so that you can go transfer over to skiing. Windfoiling is expensive and learning can be very expensive even for some experienced windsurfers when they damage their boards with their sail masts on breaches. I came from windfoiling, so winging comes easy, but I went through long learning process with windsurfing then windfoiling, that's where I paid my dues. If you want to wing, just wing, starting with a SUP first and learning to foil behind a boat if it's an option would make way more sense too.
Conversely, if you want to get into windfoiling, don't waste time and money by going through wingfoiling.
What Windbot said, windsurfers/windfoilers have a big advantage when transferring skills to winging, but they have had to learn to windsurf first which has its own learning curve.
I've been doing a bit of wing teaching. Forget the big sups, they just head off downwind as you can't get far enough back . I use a 9 ft board with thin rails. You can use the rails to hold your ground, you can't edge bigger sups properly.
Go out in plenty of wind in the flattest water possible, you'll learn quick.
I still love wind foiling but I'm WWF style. When winging I hold a handle at my hip on a wave, while wind-foiling I just grab the mast and hold off to the side. Kind of the same except when I eat it. Wind foil seems to be a more aggressive fall.
My personal notes:
1) Wind foil is unparalleled in going upwind.
Really important come summer time for my afternoon down winders. Don't need a drop off upwind.
2) I can definitely carve harder wind foiling as I can counter balance against the sail. Though eventually I can see that happening w the wing.
3) Winging wins for feeling of freedom and rigging and derigging.
4) Winging mechanics are just so different, it's just too much fun.
Sometimes I get stressed out trying to figure out whether I'm SB surfing, wave-sailing, SUP'n, LB surfing, winging or wind foiling. ??
Of course doing 3 of the sports in one day is the coveted hat trick. ;)
Embrace the Kai Lenny inside of you.
Warmest Regards.
With the advent of newer HA foils wing foilers are closing the speed gap with wind foilers. Also, the new wings are much better going upwind.
At the 57 second mark of the attached video Alan Cadiz is opening it up -- pretty scary fast. Alan doesn't use a rear strap!
Pretty good speeds they are getting over there in Maui.
As the 2 sports progress it will be interesting to see which one will dominate in the average local swells. The slingshot guys in Perth are pushing the limits in windfoil by carving up the swells at speed.
Select to expand quoteGuru4 said..
Pretty good speeds they are getting over there in Maui.
As the 2 sports progress it will be interesting to see which one will dominate in the average local swells. The slingshot guys in Perth are pushing the limits in windfoil by carving up the swells at speed.
Here is a winger carving up a wave at speed -- he's not flagging the wing out to the side but rather using the wing like a windsurfer uses his sail. Click on the top middle video in the link below.
www.instagram.com/titouan.galea/?utm_source=ig_embed
When it comes to big air the wingers are doing just fine. I haven't seen any wind foilers get this kind of air -- check out the lofty heights found in the middle video five rows down (same link).
BTW -- I love both sports.
Might still be awhile before I get on the water:
Here's a typically Canadian approach to our weather.
No, for real world conditions I'm sticking with windfoiling for the light stuff. I was out on the weekend winging with a 6.2 and a big board and it was miserable, always a couple knots too light to get up on foil. Just upwind of me were some windfoilers ripping, granted they were on probably 7-8m sails, but given how much more efficient sails are over wings I likely would have needed an 8-9m wing, that's a place I don't want to go.
Also that RMR skit rings true, the same could be said with wind, there's always wind in the long-term forecast that keeps getting pushed out!
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
No, for real world conditions I'm sticking with windfoiling for the light stuff. I was out on the weekend winging with a 6.2 and a big board and it was miserable, always a couple knots too light to get up on foil. Just upwind of me were some windfoilers ripping, granted they were on probably 7-8m sails, but given how much more efficient sails are over wings I likely would have needed an 8-9m wing, that's a place I don't want to go.
Also that RMR skit rings true, the same could be said with wind, there's always wind in the long-term forecast that keeps getting pushed out!
I've been winging for about 7 mos, and came from a background of surfing and hence no wind sport experience. Winging for me was an outlet for spending more time on foil. I originally started prone surf foiling, but found my progression was affected by others, as local surf spots get really crowded. When asked by other wind sport enthusiasts about why I wing, usually after being told it doesn't look that fun, I always say Winging is one of the fastest ways to learn foiling. In my limited experience in wind sports, However, I've noticed other disciplines have their place in learning foiling. In lite wind locations, kite foiling might actually be easier to get on foil. I recently purchased a used 15 m kite specifically for those days. Flying and controlling a kite safely requires skill. Once mastered, one already knows the next part, which is learning-to foil. So I see winging and kite foiling as complementary rather than exclusive.
40 years of windsurfing - 2 years of windfoiling.
Sold last october everything and switched 100% to winging.
So much fun - freedom & material development (like in old days :-))
Started with low-aspect Slingshot (perfect for learning),
switched now to higher-aspect Axis range - there is almost no limit (max speed not yet achieved - too scary, but able to match 80% of windsurfer in high winds...).
But I have to say speed in winging is funny and scary, but the real fun I have with carving, freestyle, waveriding (speed is 2nd for me).
