Started winging in Oct of 2019 (3 1/2 yrs) and I'm finally ready to slow down with all this constant gear upgrade obsession. No new hand wings or boards for me this season. The only thing I might do is upgrade my carbon mast to a high modulus version and add one front foil to the foil quiver. Probably won't do a thing to improve my skill level, but I'll say it will due to the placebo effect
, and it's always fun to buy at least a few toys
. Actually looking forward to just focusing on skill and not stuff. (Slick SLS quiver, Cabrinha Code, Gong Tall mid aspect foils and pro tails)
Anyone else who's been winging for awhile slowing down? From the constant forum "gear posts", it sure doesn't seem like it.
Prices have gone up for sure. Where a wing cost 700 eur two years ago now they are 900.
I find myself sale hunting for *new* last year's gear instead of this year's gear.
In a way better like this, since I can rely on proper 6-8 month old reviews.
Promises of future compatibility are also important. You want to rely on a foil platform that will allow upgrading for at least another 2-3 seasons.
I find foil brands with 101 front wings scary (for my wallet) Of course super impressive what Axis can offer at the same time I'd be restless and always looking at how a new fwing or stab can solve my needs rather than focus on better riding and tuning.
Wingfoiling needs to remain fun and not an obsession of constant upgrades.
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..
Prices have gone up for sure. Where a wing cost 700 eur two years ago now they are 900.
I find myself sale hunting for *new* last year's gear instead of this year's gear.
In a way better like this, since I can rely on proper 6-8 month old reviews.
Promises of future compatibility are also important. You want to rely on a foil platform that will allow upgrading for at least another 2-3 seasons.
I find foil brands with 101 front wings scary (for my wallet) Of course super impressive what Axis can offer at the same time I'd be restless and always looking at how a new fwing or stab can solve my needs rather than focus on better riding and tuning.
Wingfoiling needs to remain fun and not an obsession of constant upgrades.
Foils brands that offer such a narrow working range make it constantly feel like you're compromising. Swapping to a different brand and sticking to the one front foil for 8 months was a great decision on my part. Even stuck to the one board too.
Some brands have a huge working range and will always work. Others don't. Just about working and exploring the market space.
I guess having been in the market space for 3 1/2 years now my desire to keep exploring new products and brands has diminished significantly. I don't feel restless at all this year that something is out there that will improve my skill level beyond just getting out there and practicing. Granted I'm not talking about racing or ultra high level stuff, just average progression for someone who's been riding for awhile now and trying out plenty of new stuff along the way. Perhaps I'm in the minority on this
On the other hand I think about new skills I want learn all the time, and how I would go about learning/practicing them...
after third season Im onto third set of foils and second set of wings.
I think I can settle on 2 front foils, 2 stabiliser foils, 1 mast, 1 fuse, 4 wings
as my kit. 2 wings really would have covered 90% of the season. My current kit was purchased 2023 so should keep me happy at least over next season.
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..
Prices have gone up for sure. Where a wing cost 700 eur two years ago now they are 900.
I find myself sale hunting for *new* last year's gear instead of this year's gear.
In a way better like this, since I can rely on proper 6-8 month old reviews.
Promises of future compatibility are also important. You want to rely on a foil platform that will allow upgrading for at least another 2-3 seasons.
I find foil brands with 101 front wings scary (for my wallet) Of course super impressive what Axis can offer at the same time I'd be restless and always looking at how a new fwing or stab can solve my needs rather than focus on better riding and tuning.
Wingfoiling needs to remain fun and not an obsession of constant upgrades.
Why I like cabrinha. No fuse choice, no stab choice... Until they brought out the new range this year.
Constant updates to foils and masts and wing's bagging out means updating is inevitable.
I think for foils the products and the consumers have matured to a point where it's no longer necessary to upgrade frequently. All brands have low, medium and high aspect foils and a range of masts and tails that will suit most people. Hopefully a lot of people now have enough experience to know that the biggest advantage is rider skill and experience.
Personally I am a little disappointed that brands offer a plethora of tails and foils and fuses. I far prefer the one piece foil/fuse/tail that I use kite foiling.
Wings are a bit different. The finish of the product gets better and better in terms of fancy handles and panel layouts and stuff. I'm not convinced that longevity and handling is getting better. I've tried a few late model higher end wings. While they excel in some respects they don't offer the range I get from my old wings, and they look a bit bagged very soon into their life. There's no way I would buy a wing without a reasonable trial period first.
I also forcing myself to slow down with buying new gear after I just bought one more board.
Before I wanted to try new stuff or to cover gaps and have more time on the water. But as I am getting more experience, I can use few 2 front wings and 3 wings for all my needs instead of using 4 wings and 5 front wings.
I just checked my run records and found that most of the time I am using the same setup.
Definitely slowing down. In fact stopping. That's it for some time now. I say that after buying a new board only last week though.
I think of it as cost per session. Yes winging is super fun and I do not plan to stop but there is a point where you question is it worth this much money. I have upgraded everything at least 2 times over my 3 year journey and the cost is well north of $15k (AUD). For someone like me who wings on average 50 times per year the cost per session is quite high. Still worth it but need to bring the cost per session down and then it is well worth it.
I am also not good enough to gain any meaningful advantage from having the latest and greatest high end equipment, what I have suits me just fine. I end up using the same wing, board and foil for 90% of my sessions anyway so most of my gear is still near new and now worth a fraction of what I paid.
I need an appropriate rehabilitation facility as I am now buying foil wings I once had and sold.
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..
I need an appropriate rehabilitation facility as I am now buying foil wings I once had and sold.
Yes, I have the same problem. I sold few front wings and now they are on my list again. The bad is that the offer is really big and is hard to find the gear which best suits my needs. It is expensive trial and error method.
Select to expand quotehilly said..
Constant updates to foils and masts and wing's bagging out means updating is inevitable.
I'll politely agree to disagree with this, or maybe we're just debating different time scales. As a few others here have said, the foil rigs are finally starting to mature to where the current "game changing" updates, aren't as game changing as the promoters would have you think, at least for the average everyday rider.
As far as wing bag-out of the newer models is concerned, I think it's been pretty well established that performance loss isn't going to have that much impact on the every day rider looking improve skills.
Of course all this stuff will eventually wear out and break over time, and some new breakthroughs might eventually come along, but the idea that you need to upgrade it every season to keep up, well imho that's just not the case any more.
Will that new Gong high modulus mast I'm gonna upgrade to this year (from my regular V2 carbon mast) really make a difference in my skill level compared to my mantra of making sure I fall and humiliate myself EVERY session trying new moves. Nope, won't make one bit of difference, but I will enjoy the placebo effect of owning that high modules mast!
Select to expand quoteDspace said..I'll politely agree to disagree
but you bought a new mast lol
Bagging out is an issue major drop in power, upwind ability and flapping when depowered. I can feel it after 20 uses or sooner if I wipeout in a big wave. Hope the V3's I just got are better.
I think most of the big brands have slowed down releases to annual rather than ASAP which was the case in the early years which has definitely slowed my update rate down. Move to horizontal panel seam seems to really help with bagging out so wings last a lot longer now so good for 12 months. Still some gains to be made in masts I reckon but I've tried quite a few '22 and '23 HA foils and they are all pretty good so far. More a question of preference or your progression level now as far as which foil to get.
For us, we are basically putting the brakes on a considering buying nothing in its first 6 to 12 months of release.
Designs have generally matured to the point of tuning rather than significant changes in performance (and not just speed). If you know why type of conditions and foiling you want to do it is easier to choose the right kit. What has done it for us is issues with new equipment, foils that are supposed to be interchangeable and basically aren't unless you use a hammer and a block of wood and wings that appear to have a manufacturing issue (warranty claim is taking ages).
So we think we might wait to see general feedback before investing in new equipment. I think this will make it tough for the shops who have stock that people no longer want and have to deal with customers who aren't happy with the equipment.
Select to expand quotecansyd said..
For us, we are basically putting the brakes on a considering buying nothing in its first 6 to 12 months of release.
Designs have generally matured to the point of tuning rather than significant changes in performance (and not just speed). If you know why type of conditions and foiling you want to do it is easier to choose the right kit. What has done it for us is issues with new equipment, foils that are supposed to be interchangeable and basically aren't unless you use a hammer and a block of wood and wings that appear to have a manufacturing issue (warranty claim is taking ages).
So we think we might wait to see general feedback before investing in new equipment. I think this will make it tough for the shops who have stock that people no longer want and have to deal with customers who aren't happy with the equipment.
Same here. With no game-changers coming through, wait 6-12 months for the design and manufacturing flaws to show through on new stuff.
The sport is still so young and at no stage has it stalled in development or gone back to an older design. As riders skill level rises across the board so will the designs in the foils & other associated equipment . it's especially painful for me chatting to team riders from most brands of what's new and frothing coming out only to get my hands on it 6 to 8 months later and by that stage someone else has something new in the pipeline. Having said all that , getting the opportunity to ride heaps of new stuff can actually send you backwards in your riding and if you have a set up which you are super comfortable on and it does everything you want , I agree why change........ unless you are a foil addict like me
Select to expand quoteDspace said..
No new hand wings or boards for me this season. The only thing I might do is upgrade my carbon mast to a high modulus version and add one front foil to the foil quiver.
I really didn't think the cost of the High Modulus mast was worth it .... until I got one..... it seriously is worth the money , everything just works so much better with it especially on the larger foils .
The sentence " Anyone slowing down from constant gear upgrades " is incompatible with your existence Piros But I'm glad you do it cause it saves a lot of us from having to do it !
Select to expand quotePiros said..Dspace said..
No new hand wings or boards for me this season. The only thing I might do is upgrade my carbon mast to a high modulus version and add one front foil to the foil quiver.
I really didn't think the cost of the High Modulus mast was worth it .... until I got one..... it seriously is worth the money , everything just works so much better with it especially on the larger foils .
Definitely the case with HA foils, when you go long span and narrow chord in foils there is a lot more variation in lift along the span compared to a MA foil which gets transferred to the mast. HA foils general suck in turbulent water for this reason but a stiff mast means the foil flexes rather than the mast making them more manageable. The same windsurfing sail feels completely on a 100% carbon mast compared to a 80%. I reckons there is definitely an argument for using HM carbon for HA foils too, flex is waisted energy.
Wondering if losing (body) weight could be a money saver..? Somehow it feels that lighter riders get a better deal in this sport: lesser m2 of wing, lesser L of board, lesser cm2 of wing .. lesser need for HM masts.. hmm could this add up to 100s in savings? if not at least a thousand.
Isnt that with most sports? at least it is for me (188x95kg)
I haven,t slowed down yet but the plan is to do so a bit.
It is always like that with new sports/hobbies: try a lot improve the gear till a level I,m happy with it, and then I can keep it for a lonfer period without becoming restless.
When I started the pandemic kicked in, there was no demo gear so it was buy a lot a and find out what suited me and sell the rest.
Last year I found at least for now +/- my happy spot with boards (AK90l Phazer+KT5.4x56l) and foils (Cabrinha H series with the Project Cedrus mast).
I ordered the new Cab mast and Hseries 1050, mainly because I think a thinner mast will surf better in my low/slow power wave conditions and a 1050 because I damaged my 1000 a couple of times badly. It is holding up well, but I simply don,t get it as smooth as it was. Other sizes (800+1200) are keepers.
Wings:
I tried a couple of 2023 wings and although they are all good the improvements are imo not as big as the years before. I think that in 2022 most brands got there profile pretty much dialed in. Most improvements I found were on the handles and claims on longlivity that we have to see if they can hold up to that.
I did replace my 4+5+6 Mantis V2 for the 4+5 Mantis V3 because of a good offer and the handles and hope to keep them for at least a year or longer when they keep performing.
When the Cab 1050+ mast arrives i,m pretty happy with the wing quiver,
wavesailing gear is good, sups as well, I treated my mountainbike last winter with an AXS group and new brakes,.
Next project will probably be a DW board and maybe a foil that suits that if needed.
to: Jeroensurf
Inspired by your good feedback on AK Phazer 90L, I just bought this board. And I hope this is my last gear purchase for this year.
Now still need to wait for at least a month when it will be not so cold, to try it on the water.
Select to expand quoteSeaYou said..
Buying gear is the only part of this sport that I have mastered to date...
I know exactly what you mean and agree ??
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..
Wondering if losing (body) weight could be a money saver..? Somehow it feels that lighter riders get a better deal in this sport: lesser m2 of wing, lesser L of board, lesser cm2 of wing .. lesser need for HM masts.. hmm could this add up to 100s in savings? if not at least a thousand.
100% being 6 ft & 90kg might have been an advantage in my younger days playing footy or paddling outriggers but man what I would give to shrink my frame size now for foiling . Even if I gave up every thing I love 86 kg is it and I've done it a few times and just that 4kg makes a huge difference riding my foil gear , I can only just imagine what the 65 to 75kg club feel like when they are up on a foil. Low litre boards with less dead & swing weight , small faster foils and smaller wings. So if you have a roof hanging over the tool shed , burn it off and your foiling will intsanly improve
Select to expand quotePiros said..MProject04 said..
Wondering if losing (body) weight could be a money saver..? Somehow it feels that lighter riders get a better deal in this sport: lesser m2 of wing, lesser L of board, lesser cm2 of wing .. lesser need for HM masts.. hmm could this add up to 100s in savings? if not at least a thousand.
100% being 6 ft & 90kg might have been an advantage in my younger days playing footy or paddling outriggers but man what I would give to shrink my frame size now for foiling . Even if I gave up every thing I love 86 kg is it and I've done it a few times and just that 4kg makes a huge difference riding my foil gear , I can only just imagine what the 65 to 75kg club feel like when they are up on a foil. Low litre boards with less dead & swing weight , small faster foils and smaller wings. So if you have a roof hanging over the tool shed , burn it off and your foiling will intsanly improve
I can vouch for that. I'm 6 ft. Nice to feel light especially for those upwind moves where keeping the wing small helps. Far more valuable than all those constant gear upgrade expenditures!!
Joints are a whole different issue...
Select to expand quoteDspace said.
I can vouch for that. I'm 6 ft. Nice to feel light especially for those upwind moves where keeping the wing small helps. Far more valuable than all those constant gear upgrade expenditures!!
Joints are a whole different issue...
Fair play man, that is inspirational stuff!!!
