What is the smallest and best front wing I can use in 10knots wind for my weight of 50kg? I have a Gong Ypra-s 700cm? and a very small stab that makes the fuse really short, so I'm used to an incredibly nervous setup and I can fly with 14 knots with it. But I'm looking for some Gong fronts and stabs to be able to make use of winds down to 10 knots without changing also the mast and fuse. I once tried a 900cm? Fanatic Aero Carve foil (can't remember the stab size) and eyeballing it I had 10 knots of wind and could take off ok and fly pretty fast still. So I got the idea that 900cm? is a good size, but I am aware that not all 900cm? are made equal! If you have some knowledge in the field, and particularly in the Gong gamma please let me know!
I'd look at the Veloce H-L
I have one but at my 95kg it doesn't get much use, very fast and efficient though.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
I'd look at the Veloce H-L
I have one but at my 95kg it doesn't get much use, very fast and efficient though.
What other fronts do you have and how does it compare to them in terms of take off? The Veloce H seems quite thin so I'd guess not the best for early take off and stable low speeds.
You are almost half my weight, say 65% when looking at total system mass.
With that said the Veloce H-L can slow right down once it's moving but does take some speed to initially get going. Where it's difficult is in chop, I'm smooth water it's no challenge even at my weight.
But at your weight it's almost a pump foil.
just thinking theoretically I'd guess that the Veloce H is less geared toward early take off than for example the Curve H because the Veloce has a thinner leading edge which should give more speed but less lift and stability at low speeds, as well as a fairly flat intrado and camber which usually mean the foil is thought up for speed rather than take off. The curve H at 900cm2 has much more thickness and volume than the Veloce H at 950cm2 so I'm thinking that even if the Veloce would have the bigger surface I might still take off easier and go just as fast with a Curve H
if with 95kg you can take off in 10 knots given no chop, then the veloce H L would be certainly fine for me, and I could even think to go down one size maybe
10kts definitely not. More like 14-15kts.
But I'm causing at least 40% more wing loading and stall speed is directly related to wing loading.
There is so many variable's to consider when thinking about how easily different foils take off. Board size and shape, flat water vs chop and how steady the wind is make a huge difference.
I'm 82kg and have ridden from Gong many foils, for example: Ypra M, Ypra-S M, Ypra-S L, Fluid H M, Fluid H L, Veloce H M, Curve H M, Curve H L and dozens of older lower aspect foils.
For example in flat water and steady wind with longer +10L dw board i can get Veloce MH up around 10kts. But if i'm using shorter board with minus litres in waves same foil needs +18kts.
Volume of foils makes also difference how they get up. Ypra LS has 1000cm2 and has been my light to moderate wind foil. But it needs just a little bit longer acceleration phase, it cannot be pumped up from stand still.
If the wind is borderline at 8-10kts and it is not steady for those 5 seconds needed, it is hard to get up. Or if there is just that tiny bit of chop that slows you down. On those conditions Curve MH 900cm2 is easier to get up as it is easier to pump and it has slower stall speed.
Ypra-S 800cm2 and Curve MH 900cm2 are worlds apart in terms of difficulty to get up and stall speed. But also in how fast they can be driven, ypra is much faster. Even though there is only 100cm2 difference. But they are so different in volume.
Overall i would say that if you have light but steady wind without chop and not sinker board, veloce H could be okay as when on foil it is pretty efficient. But if you cannot give it time to accelerate and have to pump foil up quickly, then maybe foil with more volume could be better. Depends also what is the style of riding you like to do. With your weight the veloce LH is not a carving machine due wingspan.
Select to expand quoteWinger12 said..
There is so many variable's to consider when thinking about how easily different foils take off. Board size and shape, flat water vs chop and how steady the wind is make a huge difference.
I'm 82kg and have ridden from Gong many foils, for example: Ypra M, Ypra-S M, Ypra-S L, Fluid H M, Fluid H L, Veloce H M, Curve H M, Curve H L and dozens of older lower aspect foils.
For example in flat water and steady wind with longer +10L dw board i can get Veloce MH up around 10kts. But if i'm using shorter board with minus litres in waves same foil needs +18kts.
Volume of foils makes also difference how they get up. Ypra LS has 1000cm2 and has been my light to moderate wind foil. But it needs just a little bit longer acceleration phase, it cannot be pumped up from stand still.
If the wind is borderline at 8-10kts and it is not steady for those 5 seconds needed, it is hard to get up. Or if there is just that tiny bit of chop that slows you down. On those conditions Curve MH 900cm2 is easier to get up as it is easier to pump and it has slower stall speed.
Ypra-S 800cm2 and Curve MH 900cm2 are worlds apart in terms of difficulty to get up and stall speed. But also in how fast they can be driven, ypra is much faster. Even though there is only 100cm2 difference. But they are so different in volume.
Overall i would say that if you have light but steady wind without chop and not sinker board, veloce H could be okay as when on foil it is pretty efficient. But if you cannot give it time to accelerate and have to pump foil up quickly, then maybe foil with more volume could be better. Depends also what is the style of riding you like to do. With your weight the veloce LH is not a carving machine due wingspan.
Awesome! Someone with your experience in gong foils is just what I need!
I am more inclined toward the Curve H indeed, rather than the Veloce.
In my spot I am gonna need a foil for some medium chop with 10-14knots fairly stable wind and I don't have space to store another board, all I can keep is one more front wing and one more stab. so I'm gonna use my borderline-sinker board (Gong Lethal 47L for 50kg of weight). Would you think it would be ok for these conditions to use a Curve H M (900cm2) paired with a Fluid H 38 stab?
My style of riding is to always try new manouvers, so I like agility and speed. Since I'm lightweight I worry less about speed because they all go fast with me on top, but agility could be a problem on high aspect wings, so I had also thought about the normal Curve, the only dubious thing is that it comes in either 800cm2 or 1000cm2. If there was a 900cm2 size I guess it would have been perfect.
Don't rule out the new regular mid aspect M Veloce. 82cm, .74L, 16mm thick. The only thing is that one sells out way too fast.
Select to expand quoteeddyjmthewll said..
Awesome! Someone with your experience in gong foils is just what I need!
I am more inclined toward the Curve H indeed, rather than the Veloce.
In my spot I am gonna need a foil for some medium chop with 10-14knots fairly stable wind and I don't have space to store another board, all I can keep is one more front wing and one more stab. so I'm gonna use my borderline-sinker board (Gong Lethal 47L for 50kg of weight). Would you think it would be ok for these conditions to use a Curve H M (900cm2) paired with a Fluid H 38 stab?
My style of riding is to always try new manouvers, so I like agility and speed. Since I'm lightweight I worry less about speed because they all go fast with me on top, but agility could be a problem on high aspect wings, so I had also thought about the normal Curve, the only dubious thing is that it comes in either 800cm2 or 1000cm2. If there was a 900cm2 size I guess it would have been perfect.
For those conditions the Curve MH 900cm2 should be very easy to get up with your weight at least if you have ok pumping skills. But be mindful that Curve H will be significantly slower than Ypra-S. The first time i tried Curve MH it was on +20kts with some 1,5m waves. I was riding my Ypra-S 800cm2 and then swapped with friends Curve H 900cm2. I was pretty underwhelmed back then. It was so slow compared to ypra and had too much lift on bigger waves. At that time i was glad that i did't buy it despite all the praise i had seen online and people changing from Ypra-S to Curve H.
But i gave it another chance other day when there was lighter irregular wind with chop. I was riding my Ypra-S 1000cm2 and then swapped to Curve H 900cm2. In those conditionions i would describe the foil as: pleasant or carefree. The foil was not fast. But it behaved well and was predictable. And had low stall speed. Usually i like sporty riding style (fast carving 360's, backwinded riding etc). But it was actually pretty fun to ride relaxed and just try different manouvers that i hadn't tried before for first time. I guess it was because foil felt easy, it encouraged me to just try different things.
So for me at 82kg my next season quiver will be: Ypra-S 800cm2 for +14-16kts, Curve H 900cm2 10-16kts and below 10kts a DW board with bigger foil.There is a discussion right now at Gong FB-page about Ypra-S vs Curve H 700cm2. I see that some people are switching back to Ypra-S after Curve H 700cm2 because Ypra-S is just faster. Also the Gong team is pretty much only using Ypra-S. So in my mind it is the foil to go when there is sufficient wind and rider has a good level. But on lighter conditions you have to decide what you value more: ease of use and getting on the foil or speed and sporty feel. I think best options for you could be above mentioned new Veloce M, Curve H 700cm2 or Curve H 900cm2 paired with your current Ypra-S 700cm2 for stronger winds.
Select to expand quoteWinger12 said..eddyjmthewll said..
Awesome! Someone with your experience in gong foils is just what I need!
I am more inclined toward the Curve H indeed, rather than the Veloce.
In my spot I am gonna need a foil for some medium chop with 10-14knots fairly stable wind and I don't have space to store another board, all I can keep is one more front wing and one more stab. so I'm gonna use my borderline-sinker board (Gong Lethal 47L for 50kg of weight). Would you think it would be ok for these conditions to use a Curve H M (900cm2) paired with a Fluid H 38 stab?
My style of riding is to always try new manouvers, so I like agility and speed. Since I'm lightweight I worry less about speed because they all go fast with me on top, but agility could be a problem on high aspect wings, so I had also thought about the normal Curve, the only dubious thing is that it comes in either 800cm2 or 1000cm2. If there was a 900cm2 size I guess it would have been perfect.
For those conditions the Curve MH 900cm2 should be very easy to get up with your weight at least if you have ok pumping skills. But be mindful that Curve H will be significantly slower than Ypra-S. The first time i tried Curve MH it was on +20kts with some 1,5m waves. I was riding my Ypra-S 800cm2 and then swapped with friends Curve H 900cm2. I was pretty underwhelmed back then. It was so slow compared to ypra and had too much lift on bigger waves. At that time i was glad that i did't buy it despite all the praise i had seen online and people changing from Ypra-S to Curve H.
But i gave it another chance other day when there was lighter irregular wind with chop. I was riding my Ypra-S 1000cm2 and then swapped to Curve H 900cm2. In those conditionions i would describe the foil as: pleasant or carefree. The foil was not fast. But it behaved well and was predictable. And had low stall speed. Usually i like sporty riding style (fast carving 360's, backwinded riding etc). But it was actually pretty fun to ride relaxed and just try different manouvers that i hadn't tried before for first time. I guess it was because foil felt easy, it encouraged me to just try different things.
So for me at 82kg my next season quiver will be: Ypra-S 800cm2 for +14-16kts, Curve H 900cm2 10-16kts and below 10kts a DW board with bigger foil.There is a discussion right now at Gong FB-page about Ypra-S vs Curve H 700cm2. I see that some people are switching back to Ypra-S after Curve H 700cm2 because Ypra-S is just faster. Also the Gong team is pretty much only using Ypra-S. So in my mind it is the foil to go when there is sufficient wind and rider has a good level. But on lighter conditions you have to decide what you value more: ease of use and getting on the foil or speed and sporty feel. I think best options for you could be above mentioned new Veloce M, Curve H 700cm2 or Curve H 900cm2 paired with your current Ypra-S 700cm2 for stronger winds.
Amazing, this all makes sense, thank you so much!
I would add..
As with Winger12 I've ridden Gong since they started wing and surf foiling although my goal isnt top end speed it's waves. I've settled on the Curve H because it's carving ability is awesome, I like playing on a wave and having a really low stall speed to wait/hover. The MH Curve I use as a daily foil for my 78kgs with the freestyle (shorter built in fuse) stab . I can use it from with any gusts over 12 Knots on a semi sinker board. I think the Curve SH would be fine for you from 10 knots.
Btw, I'm considering getting a mid aspect Fluid V2 to really loosen things up. Malo the super talented Son of Patrice (Mr Gong) often uses the fluid (non H) to play on a wave and do unreal stuff. This will be slower again but more slidy and skatey.
Select to expand quoteIanInca said..
I would add..
As with Winger12 I've ridden Gong since they started wing and surf foiling although my goal isnt top end speed it's waves. I've settled on the Curve H because it's carving ability is awesome, I like playing on a wave and having a really low stall speed to wait/hover. The MH Curve I use as a daily foil for my 78kgs with the freestyle (shorter built in fuse) stab . I can use it from with any gusts over 12 Knots on a semi sinker board. I think the Curve SH would be fine for you from 10 knots.
Btw, I'm considering getting a mid aspect Fluid V2 to really loosen things up. Malo the super talented Son of Patrice (Mr Gong) often uses the fluid (non H) to play on a wave and do unreal stuff. This will be slower again but more slidy and skatey.
awesome thank you, I'll still go for the Curve MH because here I have pretty difficult shorebreak and I need to be able to jump on the board and fly in max 5 seconds
Select to expand quoteWinger12 said..eddyjmthewll said..
Awesome! Someone with your experience in gong foils is just what I need!
I am more inclined toward the Curve H indeed, rather than the Veloce.
In my spot I am gonna need a foil for some medium chop with 10-14knots fairly stable wind and I don't have space to store another board, all I can keep is one more front wing and one more stab. so I'm gonna use my borderline-sinker board (Gong Lethal 47L for 50kg of weight). Would you think it would be ok for these conditions to use a Curve H M (900cm2) paired with a Fluid H 38 stab?
My style of riding is to always try new manouvers, so I like agility and speed. Since I'm lightweight I worry less about speed because they all go fast with me on top, but agility could be a problem on high aspect wings, so I had also thought about the normal Curve, the only dubious thing is that it comes in either 800cm2 or 1000cm2. If there was a 900cm2 size I guess it would have been perfect.
For those conditions the Curve MH 900cm2 should be very easy to get up with your weight at least if you have ok pumping skills. But be mindful that Curve H will be significantly slower than Ypra-S. The first time i tried Curve MH it was on +20kts with some 1,5m waves. I was riding my Ypra-S 800cm2 and then swapped with friends Curve H 900cm2. I was pretty underwhelmed back then. It was so slow compared to ypra and had too much lift on bigger waves. At that time i was glad that i did't buy it despite all the praise i had seen online and people changing from Ypra-S to Curve H.
But i gave it another chance other day when there was lighter irregular wind with chop. I was riding my Ypra-S 1000cm2 and then swapped to Curve H 900cm2. In those conditionions i would describe the foil as: pleasant or carefree. The foil was not fast. But it behaved well and was predictable. And had low stall speed. Usually i like sporty riding style (fast carving 360's, backwinded riding etc). But it was actually pretty fun to ride relaxed and just try different manouvers that i hadn't tried before for first time. I guess it was because foil felt easy, it encouraged me to just try different things.
So for me at 82kg my next season quiver will be: Ypra-S 800cm2 for +14-16kts, Curve H 900cm2 10-16kts and below 10kts a DW board with bigger foil.There is a discussion right now at Gong FB-page about Ypra-S vs Curve H 700cm2. I see that some people are switching back to Ypra-S after Curve H 700cm2 because Ypra-S is just faster. Also the Gong team is pretty much only using Ypra-S. So in my mind it is the foil to go when there is sufficient wind and rider has a good level. But on lighter conditions you have to decide what you value more: ease of use and getting on the foil or speed and sporty feel. I think best options for you could be above mentioned new Veloce M, Curve H 700cm2 or Curve H 900cm2 paired with your current Ypra-S 700cm2 for stronger winds.
After having played with the Curve MH for a while I can tell im very happy with it. Take off is super easy in any wind (at certain points I think I had less then 10 knots and still took off just fine) and stall speed is ridiculously low, it's just like having a 1700 cm2 foil underneath.
I pair it with a stab freestyle 37 which makes the fuselage pretty short and gives it that nice agile feeling and a great pop. Even in light winds I can have fun with jumps.
In terms of max speed it's pretty much the same as the YpraS 700 for me because I struggle holding the board down with speeds going higher than 20 knots. But I can tell in terms of acceleration and the feeling of friction the YpraS is better.
Also when the tips breach the water the YpraS is so much more forgiving, but overall I'm super happy with this curve MH.
Thank you for the great advise!
I would also consider a Curve H of a size that appeals or a really well priced Veloce V2 as they have a far thicker profile than the Veloce Hs, but not as thickness the Curve Hs. I have a Veloce XLH and it's great, but not the fastest thing to start flying given its thinness. I have a Veloce XLH coming next week that I hope to use for my first SUP downwinders as it seems to have a reasonable balance of early flight and top speed for linking swells.
I've had durability issues with the first of the new design tails (a fluid if I recall). Have they improved that at all?
I must admit I'm tempted to go back to Gong after spending the last year on Slingshot which are very durable but limited in wing choices.
