Forums > Windsurfing   Western Australia

life jackets for windsurfers, kiters, SUPs, etc, proposed new WA laws

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Created by wazza local > 9 months ago, 27 May 2017
wazza local
WA, 23 posts
27 May 2017 2:21PM
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in the West Australian today ( Saturday 27 May 2017 )
thewest.com.au/news/wa/deaths-spark-lifejacket-move-ng-b88486549z

A discussion paper to be released as part of the review reveals the Department of Transport is considering making lifejackets mandatory on the ocean, rivers and lakes.The potential changes, which are certain to spark a furious reaction from recreational boaties, could extend to powerboats, sailing boats, canoes, kayaks, stand-up paddleboards, windsurfers, kiteboarding and any other vessel that operates in rivers or on the sea.

public submissions must be in before July 10.

This is not a drill.

Stuthepirate
SA, 3591 posts
27 May 2017 5:12PM
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Wow.
might as well add surfboards to that list too
I can sort of understand powerboats/tinnies.
"Fourteen people have died on the water since July last year, including one commercial crewman - compared with two in each of the two preceding financial years.
Eight of those who died in recent months were not wearing lifejackets, a big concern for marine safety authorities and Water Police, especially when many of the incidents happened in rough ocean conditions.
Most of the fatalities were mature men and considered experienced boaters, with complacency or misreading weather conditions suggested as the probable reasons for their deaths."

But Kitesurfers/windsurfers/SUP really!?
How many of the 14 fall into these categories?
That must also mean that all of transperth ferries, Rottnest ferries, winery feriies etc.. must have their patrons wear life jackets.

wazza local
WA, 23 posts
27 May 2017 6:33PM
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be warned. this is the Nanny State in full blown action.
Every time someone dies some bureaucrat somewhere springs into action and wants to justify their existence by proposing a new law that will once and for all legislate stupidity out of existence. Anyway, as I mentioned, this is not a drill, so people need to cease just sitting on their hands and mobilise and put some energy into hosing this one down.
Personally, I have done the hard yards with local and state govt on other issues so if this post doesnt get any interest I wont even waste my time offering suggestions on the way forward.

Over to y'all.

Sin
WA, 170 posts
28 May 2017 11:23AM
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Please take part of the 10min survey from the Department of Transport on this matter, it covers the Windsurfing, Kitesurfing and SUP Categories and I think it is important we cast our opinion as much as possible before it's too late.

app.surveymethods.com/EndUser.aspx?F3D7BBA3F6B5AEA7F1

On the second last page of the survey, there's a section to put your comments. You can openly express your thoughts and put forward objective reasons and examples to make the department understand we can not be put into the same box. I believe the regulation is already adequate (see table below) and does not need modification as far as Windsurfing, Kitesurfing and SUP go.

Other Useful Links:

Media Statement from the Government:
www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2017/05/Skippers-views-sought-on-changes-to-safety-equipment.aspx

Equipment Review Link:
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/safety-equipment-review.asp



petermac33
WA, 6415 posts
28 May 2017 12:58PM
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Been warning for some time about this nanny state. It's about getting the public used to complying / obeying.

What are they going to do,chase a windsurfer down on the Swan River,take his details whilst floating in the water?

Sailing with a life jacket takes much of the enjoyment away from the sport,not to mention you can easily overheat in summer wearing one.

wazza local
WA, 23 posts
28 May 2017 1:45PM
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and dont think its not possible that a couple of Officers wouldnt turn up at somewhere as remote as Gnaraloo and ping kiters and windsurfers as they came out of the water. they are happy to travel to all the remote places to prosecute policy.

Also, dont fall for the trap of copying and pasting a 'standard' statement into your submission, as Govt departments have been known to count all identically worded submissions as one submission.

mathew
QLD, 2136 posts
28 May 2017 8:16PM
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Select to expand quote
petermac33 said..
Sailing with a life jacket takes much of the enjoyment away from the sport,not to mention you can easily overheat in summer wearing one.


Where in the world are you windsurfing, where you will overheat ?

elmo
WA, 8869 posts
28 May 2017 7:55PM
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Recommend ticking the "yes" box on the questionnaire so you can respond to questions like having to have an anchor on the Windsurfer/kitesurfer.

Bobbin
WA, 122 posts
28 May 2017 7:59PM
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What happened to being aware of your surroundings, checking the forecast, always having an escape plan, self response ability Personally I am always accessing the conditions, be it paddle boarding, windsurfing, golfing, bike riding, walking, driving etc etc etc.

Stu if you keep jumping the way you do, you need a helmet and a PFD

WazzaYotty
QLD, 302 posts
28 May 2017 10:32PM
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Select to expand quote
elmo said..
Recommend ticking the "yes" box on the questionnaire so you can respond to questions like having to have an anchor on the Windsurfer/kitesurfer.


I absolutely agree Elmo.
I was amazed at the wording of some of the questions asked once you tick the "yes" box.

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
28 May 2017 9:38PM
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Select to expand quote
elmo said..
Recommend ticking the "yes" box on the questionnaire so you can respond to questions like having to have an anchor on the Windsurfer/kitesurfer.

Or for responding to the question about whether a windsurfer, kitesurfer or paddleboarder should carry a first aid kit with them!

Sparky
WA, 1122 posts
28 May 2017 9:48PM
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Survey done. I hope I spelt "personal responsibility" and "domineering state governments" correctly.

elmo
WA, 8869 posts
28 May 2017 10:06PM
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I did put a comment about carrying a fire extinguisher and hoping they wouldn't ask me to bend over for storing it

R1DER
WA, 1471 posts
28 May 2017 10:22PM
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Survey done comments added, it only takes about 15mins. I urge everyone to do the questionnaire and add your comments. Dumb it down as these people dont windsurf or understand windsurfing. Your apathy of not speaking up for yourself and thinking others will say it for you will result in a negative outcome for your windsurfing, make a choice, stand up for youself. Just do it !

Tardy
5269 posts
29 May 2017 5:39AM
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Bottom line is rules suck and we don't want them.

it will create more jobs rrrrrrr.r .

could you imagine applying this rule in maui .?

Plainview
WA, 179 posts
29 May 2017 7:53AM
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Survey completed. Ticked yes a few times to comment on anchors, paddles, buckets etc. Final comment about recent deterioration in safety stats being related to boats, not windsurfers SUPs etc.

alverstone
WA, 533 posts
29 May 2017 8:42AM
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Original release from Transport Minister Rita Saffioti include link if you want to comment for the review.

www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2017/05/Skippers-views-sought-on-changes-to-safety-equipment.aspx

alverstone
WA, 533 posts
29 May 2017 8:45AM
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Sin said..
Please take part of the 10min survey from the Department of Transport on this matter, it covers the Windsurfing, Kitesurfing and SUP Categories and I think it is important we cast our opinion as much as possible before it's too late.

app.surveymethods.com/EndUser.aspx?F3D7BBA3F6B5AEA7F1

On the second last page of the survey, there's a section to put your comments. You can openly express your thoughts and put forward objective reasons and examples to make the department understand we can not be put into the same box. I believe the regulation is already adequate (see table below) and does not need modification as far as Windsurfing, Kitesurfing and SUP go.

Other Useful Links:

Media Statement from the Government:
www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2017/05/Skippers-views-sought-on-changes-to-safety-equipment.aspx

Equipment Review Link:
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/safety-equipment-review.asp




Mate,

Can you post this in the kitesurfing section, please, on my link with the Govt's press release? Methinks there may be a lot of chatter about this, and this if good info. Thanks.

Obelix
WA, 1131 posts
29 May 2017 2:40PM
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Just filled the survey - amazing.

A lot of sailboat (windsurfing, kiting) conditions it is "as per motorboats".
I.E. not just he anchor and fire equipment , but also marine radios, bilge pumps, and a bucket :-)

Definitely not a very careful consideration - I suggest to fill the survey and provide your sentiment.
These people don't understand our sport so they need our help. If we stay quiet, we'll be carrying a bucket.
I personally was thinking of carrying it on my head.

It takes 10-15 minutes :
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/safety-equipment-review.asp

pommypair
WA, 48 posts
29 May 2017 6:25PM
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Well I offered up answers to the survey, hard not to laugh at who must have written ideas that insist a windsurfer needs an anchor or fire exstinguisher...a good idea for a kiter maybe...
Still it needs an input to show how all windsurfers from anywhere would find the rules mainly useless and an outrage.SPEND THE TIME AND GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS PLEASE!

geared4knots
TAS, 2649 posts
29 May 2017 9:05PM
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been there done that in Tassie,
only place you dont need a lifjacket now is in bed.
I think windsurfing is compulsory, but they know its impossible with harnesses etc.
sups and all water craft , boats ,canoes , yachts compulsory.
sups no in surf zone.
stupid thing is leashes are not needed on SUP until you are 200 metres offshore. Imagine loosing board with 30 knots offshore wind!!!, go figure.

RichardG
WA, 3761 posts
30 May 2017 1:56PM
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I completed the survey. I do not believe any further safety requirements are needed to be prescribed in addition to the current requirements insofar as windsurfers are concerned. I do have concerns over the requirements to use life jackets in the surfline but do note that there are only required within 400 m of the shore so practically unless we are heading out to an offshore reef (eg Whitfords..) or sailing offshore, a distance out, it is not going to be an issue. I believe the requirement to carry anchors, bilge pumps, fire buckets and fire extinguishers should not apply to windsurfers. I made my comments on these issues in the survey but did not refer to Whitfords or sailing offshore beyond 400m since I do not believe it wise to complicate the issue.

Mark _australia
WA, 23468 posts
30 May 2017 2:11PM
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^^^ I agree with all that Richard except for the offshore part not being an issue (or much of an issue often). It would affect Lancelin, G/H, 2 out of 4 classic Gero spots. That is pretty much half of the 'classic' WA wave locations outside of Perth.
I have given them a serve on that basis

Stuthepirate
SA, 3591 posts
30 May 2017 3:59PM
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If paddle craft don't require a life jacket outside of 400m why should a windsurfer or kitesurfer?

RichardG
WA, 3761 posts
30 May 2017 3:48PM
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I believe paddlecraft, as also with windsurfers, do currently require a lifejacket more than 400m from shore. Am I right or wrong ?

Would paddlecraft include surfboards ?

Stuthepirate
SA, 3591 posts
30 May 2017 5:35PM
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Paddle Craft and Sailboards (Wind/Kite) both require to carry life jackets >400m
Only Sailboards require wearing >400m

RichardG
WA, 3761 posts
30 May 2017 4:16PM
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Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
^^^ I agree with all that Richard except for the offshore part not being an issue (or much of an issue often). It would affect Lancelin, G/H, 2 out of 4 classic Gero spots. That is pretty much half of the 'classic' WA wave locations outside of Perth.
I have given them a serve on that basis







I concur and believe wearing lifejackets for surfsailing is unnecessary and unsafe and indeed a harness provides a degree of buoyancy anyway.I made the point that lifejackets in the surf are dangerous including on a windsurfer but did not address the 400m issue but acknowledge there is an issue at Lancelin etc... I know I and no one else would ever wear a lifejacket paddling out on a surfboard to a break 400m out, why should windsurfing be different... The article attached indicates the idiocy of the WA government on the issues with lifejackets in any event on other vessels."..I know, for a fact, that some people have died BECAUSE they were wearing a lifejacket, I much prefer to assess the conditions and make up my own mind.."
www.mysailing.com.au/opinion/memo-to-wa-government-re-compulsory-lifejackets-you-idiots

RichardG
WA, 3761 posts
30 May 2017 4:36PM
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Select to expand quote
Stuthepirate said..
Paddle Craft and Sailboards (Wind/Kite) both require to carry life jackets >400m
Only Sailboards require wearing >400m


Sorry Stu, you are absolutely correct. I did in any event, make the point and submission that lifejackets and anchors should not be required for a windsurfer for a number of reasons including the fact that when the sail falls in the water the board essentially stops and remains stationary in the water and the board itself is buoyant and acts as a "liferaft and life preserver" and the rider has a harness usually which is a buoyancy aid to an extent and is thus safer in this in this respect than most other craft. There are some limits on this type of submission, which I did not address but notably the fact, that a board can actually drift away from a rider in a big sea or strong wind particularly if you become separated from the board. Any thoughts on how to make a submission that would relax the requirement given the anomaly you have identified.

2keen
WA, 372 posts
31 May 2017 9:03AM
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Survey completed.
Shame Mark Mcgowan's attitude on sharks, that "people need to take personal responsibility" doesn't extend across all ocean activities!!

decrepit
WA, 12775 posts
31 May 2017 2:58PM
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Yep, mine's in as well

remery
WA, 3709 posts
31 May 2017 5:13PM
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That was pretty hard work. Basically my suggestion was for flares and life jacket when windsurfing more than 1.5 km offshore. Selfishly I just care about being able to sail a kilometre or so out when pinching back upwind.



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Forums > Windsurfing   Western Australia


"life jackets for windsurfers, kiters, SUPs, etc, proposed new WA laws" started by wazza local