Looking at buying a new set of sails. I like sails with big range and prefer the higher quality and price brands. I have been with North for the last few years. To save money I like to go for a superseeded model but only by one year. I weigh 77kgs. I am a bit rough on my gear compared to most. Hard part is that I spend about 50% onshore jumping and cross - off 50% waveriding. I spend a few weeks in Esperance every year as well.
My dilemma is I like the Norths but hear some good things about the Naish Force as well. Keen on opinions on both. I am looking at 5.3, 4.7 and 4.2 - although a factor is that I may have trouble getting hold of the sizes I prefer. I have three masts (standard diammeter - not skinny). One North 430 (70% carbon), North 400 (55% carbon) and another brand (can't recall it) - 55% carbon.
I use the 5.3 the most - have 2 boards - Fanatic 81 and Polokow 92lt - wave boards.
Keen on independent advice.
you'll find that buying '08 sails in the popular sizes (5.3 and 4.7) will be very tricky. Given the '09 season here in OZ is almost over I'd say you probably will start to have to call around in the bigger WA, VIC and NSW shops to get sails from that season as well.
My suggestion for you would be to bite the bullet and either buy a set of '09 sails or wait for the '10 sails to arrive (should be in the shops about 6 months form now at the latest). Also, don't mix sails from different years. You are buying everything new at the same time so it makes more sense to buy all sails from one year.
Can't say much about the Naish Force other than I used one and didn't like it that much... yet a mate of mine loves them. Personally I find the Naish Sails too soft.
As far as masts are concerned I would try and find a sail range where everything from 5.3 to 4.2 rigs on a 400cm mast. You might not be able to use your standard diammeter masts through as most sails now only rig on skinny masts.
Is there a shop in SA were you might be able to demo those sails?
love the 2008 naish force,
i'm on 5.7 5.3 5.0 and an 07 4.2
no other sail has ever felt so good 4 me.
you will have to drop your sizes though, as they have more power than any other wave sail...so your old 5.3 becomes a 5 4.7 a 4.5 etc etc.
the range isn't massive in them like tushy rocks, but on average, you can tweak the downhaul/outhaul a couple of inches.
these sails are supreme in light to medium (just right),, they do become a bit of a handful when overpowered and a bit back handy, this can be resolved by moving the harness back or by riggin smaller than what you think, a mistake i STILL make after sailing on them for 18mths.
onshore jumping is unreal, they just hold the wind in the sail so good
on to x shore wave riding - brilliant
x off down the line - good - just got to remember to go small!!!!!!
they do prefer a medium to stiff mast, specially in the top. i'm using powerex skinnys.
well worth a look, good luck. if GOD1111 swears by em, that'll do me.
This is an easy one. Tushy Rock. They ROCK
Give Paul at 2nd wind a call, I'm sure could sort you out
hi there 2008 sails i guess a lot depends on what type of sails you like . i use simmer and severne. severne make really great sails such as s1 wavesail ,so light easy to throw around good windrange . blades super strong yet have a huge windrange . simmer sails are really strong and light well built , i guess go ride some sails make your own mind up as you are one using them. give gspot in gerro a ring as ifound them very helpful in choosing or your local shops. happy sailing
I'm 79kg
Hadhave a set of 2007 North Ice 4.5/5/5.7 and 2008 Ice 3.7
Cross/ cross off Waves 80%
I try to look after my stuff but Mother Nature insists on giving it a thrashing. The North’s are well built but the monofilm did not handle the punishment. All of them have been ripped several times from contacts with waves from small tears to nothing left of the 5.7m. Wanted to get something with the spectra stuff.
Been using 5.3 Nash Force 2008 for the last 4 months
I rig it on the Vipers drop shape with no problem.
Felt super light when rolled up.
Found the main difference is that the Norths have more high wind range than the Nash with the Force getting a heavy back hand when over powered.
But the Nash de powers on the wave more than the North 07’s and has a bit more grunt when it powers back up. Might have somthing to do with the shorter boom.
Also seem to plane as early as the North 5.7.
Used the 08 3.7 a few times but cant compare with the others because of the conditions it was used in.
Will look at getting a force 4.5 or 4.7 08/09 soon.
For range, Simmer Crossover. Big big range, and very stable in gusts but a little more powerful than some people like. At a spot like Esperance they are nice for getting out in the flukey wind but can be a handful when trying to depower off the top turn.... depending on what you are used to. But for some onshore, soem sideshore and some blasting around in chop of freestlyle stuff they can't be beaten. They take a beating too, really top construction.
For bladey feel and mega light handling and a nice depower, NP Zone.
I've tried out quite a few brands of sails this summer including the force, it has quite a good wind range, it has heaps of pull, even when you have reached your top end speed it still has a constant pulling feeling whereas a lot of other sails seem to back off with this feeling once your up to speed.
The sail that seemed to have the biggest wind range was the tushingham rock admittedly it was a bit low on bottom end power, but using a quarter of a metre bigger gives the bottom end and it still has a better top end than others that are a bit smaller. It's also a lot heavier in build than the force as in the sail material is thicker therefore stronger. The Rock does feel softer and not so locked in to sail. definately try before you buy.
Can recommend the gaastra manic as a good all round wave sail. I use mine mainly in onshore and freestyle conditions but a friend of mine has a set down in Taranaki, NZ and uses them exclusively in Cross-off waves and loves them. They feel quite light in your hands which makes them really good for wavesailing.
Might be worth looking at Sailworks as well. i recently picked up a 4.0 Revolution wave sail from 2008 for a very good price from Boardcrazy in belmont. i went with them as the recommended mast for the 4.0 is a 400. I emailed Sailworks to see if my NP SDM wave mast would work and Bruce Peterson emailed me right back. Your North SDM Masts might well work for these sails as well. I haven't used the sail as yet as the wind has disappeared in Sydney but it does look very well built with excellent rigging instructions.
pretty good reviews of the major brands at the below link.http://www.windsport.com/gear_box?news_id=58&uniqid=989
Thanks for the good advice. I am looking at the sail review link. I am in SA and do not have the chance to try before I buy with any gear unfortunately. SA generally does not give that option with boards or sails - volume is too small for the shops to facilitate it.
At this stage I will have a closer look at Simmer and Naish. My heart has been with North but a comment in one of these replies about how long they last rang true and confirms I should look at alternatives. Mark has it right about Esperance. The range is important there and in SA. We do a fair bit of glugging out but the wind on the wave face is quite strong.
I don't sail them, but if you want a bomb-proof sail with a massive wind range that's still light feeling then get the Tushingham Rock. They're also competitively priced.
Rig for the light stuff and even if the wind starts howling you won't be overpowered due to the endless top-end.
If it's windy on the face then the Force will probably overpower you at your weight. The pull is relentless and coming from the Norths you will really notice it.
Unfortunately we don't have a Tushingham distributor in SA. No one here has them. Most guys seem to use Pryde, Ezzy, North or Sailworks. Your point about price can be true which is why I have never been overly fond of the Prydes. I have found since 2000 that Ezzy or North were good. North have been very good but expensive, although the latest ones I have (07 model) seem to have not lasted long.
Quite concerned about the Naish ones - I like the idea of a grunty sail that is smaller but not having to stuff around with the setup if it gets windy. I also suspect I might not be able to control it properly though turns on waves. I have been waveriding for a while but I am really working on improving my technique at the moment so control on the wave face is very important for me during this transition phase.
Does anyone know of some sites with objective views on sails? I have looked at a link earlier in this trail but it seemed to be 'all positive' - a bit like the reviewers trying to keep all the suppliers happy.
Lost a bit of interest in Naish now. More interested in Simmer, still trying to assess North and Ezzy (a mate has the Ezzys and they seem low on wind range though)...
Like said above, budget in a new 400 skinny, that covers the range.
A north (flex tip) is not going to set-up a Naish or Severne sail.
I have a flex tip skinny mast for use in a North and Pryde, and it cannot set up a Severne.
I used to have Norths and moved to Ezzy and to be honest I haven't felt the need to even try anything else since, i'm that happy with them. Regarding the wind range of the Ezzy's in my opinion it's excellent but you have to rig them correctly. Not that many people who I see sailing them do in fact rig them correctly, they rig very differently to almost any other wave sail and it's quite critical, particularly on the 07/08 models. The Panther imo is a bit more forgiving.
As nebbian said I think they tick all the boxes; they are well priced, tough, good wind range. I would suggest though that you'll get more out of them with a skinny mast, although that could be said for almost every wave sail made these days.
End of the day sails are a fairly subjective thing, they all feel a bit different and what feels sweet for one person may feel horrible to someone else. I suggest you try a few different options out if you can.
I think I will try my mates Ezzy sails. I used to have them in early 0's and was happy back then. Maybe he just doesn't hold on in conditions I do. They are less expensive and seem to be robust. The sails should drive the solution. The masts should be secondary and based on the selected sails.
This forum is certainly helping - although intrigued no one knows of any on line objective analysis of sails out there. The mags have good articles at times and usually old edition stuff can be found online.
Hard to find anything objective when it comes to sails. Like CJW said, different people like a different feel. So even if there is no financial persuasion, reviews are going to be subjective. You're gonna find it difficult to find a sail you like without trying them.
Six of us tried a bunch of wave sails over a couple of days in 20kn cross-on conditions with waist-shoulder waves early summer. Four of us were in the market for new sails and each of us bought a different brand! That said, we were able to agree on the attributes of each sail even though we had different priorities.
The sails were:
- Tushingham Rock
- Severne Blade
- Naish Force
- Goya Guru W3D
- Ezzy WaveSE
So if you want to know the consensus on any of them, let me know.
Everyone has a bias based on what they are happy using, which is fine as long as you take what everyone says and balance out the view.
At the end of the day you have to try gear yourself to really know if you will like it and preferably on your own kit. ie your mast to see if it works on it.
EG - I tried a brand mentioned by leech, and on his set up. I came to the beach suggesting that no one in the known universe could make a sail that bad and put it in production.
Now I know these guys make good gear so how could they get it so wrong?
Of course the sail was not bad at all, it was just leech's piss poor rigging
.
Having been able to send time on over 15 different sail types this summer I really enjoyed finding out the diffrences. I rigged and sailed a few on my masts and some on their own masts. Some sails which I would never spend my money on, are loved by others that did pay for them.
Watching from the beach no one sails any worse for their choice because they are on brand x instead of y.
Like taking sailor opinions, i think you should read all of the mag test/reviews and take an overview as they often conflict with each other, but you will get a feel for what they are trying to describe.
Also if you can find the boards mast article, you can compare mast brand types and then match them to what you are using to see what sails might work on your current gear without having to buy all new masts when you change brand. Just keep in mind that they are not always right.
Some one I know is working on an unbiased sail and board testing site with no brand attachments and maybe it will be up in time for next summer. They hope to out line the differences between products in an informative way. So look out for it soon!
My mistake, it was a Goya W3D.
- very important to rig it right. masses of downhaul and tune with outhaul.
- top panels ended up very loose and sail flapping could be felt while sailing along. Distracting for some.
- compared to the others, this sail loosened the board up (i interpret this as less downforce coming from the sail).
- the bottom end was acceptable but heavier sailors wanted more. letting off the downhaul gave more pull but stuffed up the balance.
- the top end was excellent when the sail was rigged right.
- a positive pull when sailing along.
- on the wave: the power switches off and the sail goes light in the hands upon initiation of the bottom turn* and really encourages the sailor to lean over in that extreme position you see Goya etc doing. I can't explain it but I've never been able to lean over that far and maintain balance with any other sail. This resulted in very vertical attacks. The sail remained light and balanced throughout the top-turn.
- construction is good, the sail is strong but not heavy.
- liked by light to medium weight sailors.
* all of the other sails pull throughout the bottom turn. some depower for the top-turn, others pull all the way through.
I think the boardseeker sail test confirms what I haven been trying to tell people for a long time. ... when choosing a sail or board look at the style and body build of the person the manufacture considers this to be the signature product for. If that riders style differs significantly from your there is good chance you won't be happy with the sail or board.
I changed over to the Serverne Blades this summer, Awesome sails, designed and tested in Western Australia, they have a massive wind range and have heaps of grunt for getting through the break, also built strong which is what conviced me to try them out.
The only other sails i have 100% confidence in is the Sailworks Revolutions, i sailed them for over 8 years never damaged one, they have similar features to the Blades, Tuff as nails, heaps of grunt for the way out through the break and a big wind range.. the Revo's can run on a few different mast as well..
This forum has certainly helped me with this decision. It is a preference thing - I really like the feel of the North sails and they seem to suit my sailing style. They have big range too. I am going for what I like and stuff the money I can't afford. I tried to get a 2008 range but there are so few left.
I have decided to go crazy, get the whole range of North Egos (5.6, 5.3, 4.7, 4.2) replace all my masts with new 100% carbon North masts (430, 400, 370) as the new range need RDM's. I am hoping the softness of the 370 will help with top end of the 4.2 on the mega days. I am also going to get hold of a low 70's litre board for the big days as my 81ltr is a bit of a handful then.
My only concern now is that the shift to RDM's with the new Egos which are an obvious redesign might be too much of a shift from what I like. I used to just go and buy this stuff but you really do feel it when you have bought something 'new and better' but it interprets into a step backwards and constant regret on the water.
Why can't this be easy???
New Gear Rocks, RDM's are so much better than SDM's, sails work better, rotate easier and when you tack or grab the mast it don't feel like your grabbing a power pole..
OK - I have gone off Ezzy as I dont like the head. Also I want to move to a wave sail with the draft further forward - and a lighter feel. I am not as heavy as I used to be. I also want to achieve a bit more agility on the face (wave and my own).
Sooo I am now checking out the Gaastra Manic. Keen on thoughts. There are not many in Aussie although I believe that is more of an availability problem. My mate has poisons - more on shore wave but they seem awsome. Bit down on the wind range of the North and Ezzy - but good performance.
5.7, 5.3, 4.7 and 4.2 with 430, 400 and 370 100% carbon RDM masts.
Keen on any thoughts. The best thing I have got out of this is the thoughts on my sailing style and what I like in a wave sail. It may not be what others like and it changes over time.
P.S. Thinking of going from my 92 litre Polokow wave board to a 91 Fanatic. Anyone used the Fanatic. I find the Polo tightens up when it is a bit windy on the face, although this might be due to my current sail choice...
