Hi
Thinking about having a wave focus freewave 94 l board or an early planning wave board for light on shore conditions.
Fanatic stubby or mamba are candidates of the second case. Stbd kode or goya one for the first case.
Although fanatic marketing info about stubby and mamba is supported by windmag tests, some comments in this forum and a friend mamba owner don't. My friend tells me the mamba must be headed much downwind to get planning and not good in on shore 5,7 conditions at least with production fin. Very short for tacking, but possible. Don't like so short length for upwind, shlogging and planning performance.
I'm looking for experiences of these boards in light wind on shore and float&ride side shore conditions. And differences between stubby and mamba.
Thanks.
No experience with the Mamba but I have owned the Goya One, Fanatic Stubby, the Fanatic FW stubby and the current Fanatic FW. I also own a Kode 125 but I don't know how that size compares to the much smaller Kode 95.
For light onshore conditions I would choose either the Kode (assuming the DNA of the 95 is the same as the 125 which is amazing with a 6.7 in onshore conditions) or the current Fanatic FW. Second choice would be the older FW stubby. The Goya One would be my third choice as I preferred it in more cross shore conditions. The Fanatic Stubby was too short for my taste (I think it was 218 cm) and I also preferred it powered up or if light then in cross shore conditions.
Here is that: windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/
What do you have in mind in terms of use?
Hi, thanks all. I'm looking for second hand boards so I can get older models. My main purpose is light wind side on shore and much less days side shore float&ride.
Manuel, I see you tested the freewave stubby, not the stubby which is even shorter and narrower. I'm afraid the freewave stubby wouldn't turn close to a wave board, and the planning is not so early, right?
There are also other wave boards which planefast, turn welland shlogging would be easier than stubby wave,like the tabou pocket.
Regarding the Mamba, I wonder if it's very similar to stubby wave or different.
Looks like the mamba follows the track of the fanatic post stubby Freewave. Did you check the specs?
The Freewave stubby is still fairly conventional in terms of length and ride. It's a bit wide out back but turns really well over the back foot. It's not a front foot board at all. The stubby I wouldn't recommend (even though never tested it), it's a board for particular conditions.
The Tabou pocket went through some transformation, what year are you looking at?
Light wind side on with mushy waves, you need a turbo wave board or a wavey free wave. Depends on your style, heavy frontside, short hacks, long arcs? Working on specific moves?
Honestly so long you it planes well, the rest you can just muscle it.
I prefer the older thruster models of the tabou pocket, 2013-2016. The new ones are similar to fanatic stubby. Do you know if there are any important differences in these years pocket apart from the colors?
I think those were favorite years for the pocket. There's possibly some construction issues check with Matt Pritchard rental center from Hawaii. He had them. Might as well ask him about the boards feedback too.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
Looks like the mamba follows the track of the fanatic post stubby Freewave. Did you check the specs?
The Freewave stubby is still fairly conventional in terms of length and ride. It's a bit wide out back but turns really well over the back foot. It's not a front foot board at all. The stubby I wouldn't recommend (even though never tested it), it's a board for particular conditions.
The Tabou pocket went through some transformation, what year are you looking at?
Light wind side on with mushy waves, you need a turbo wave board or a wavey free wave. Depends on your style, heavy frontside, short hacks, long arcs? Working on specific moves?
Honestly so long you it planes well, the rest you can just muscle it.
the stubby comment - wouldnt recomment ???? (even tho you havnt sailed it ?) , the stubby is an absolute ripper of a shape .... and works good also sideshore ,,,, just check the turns victor and Adam Lewis were getting on it years past ... Ive sailed all of them , 76 / 77 / 82 / 88 / 98 .... couldnt recomment them highly enough - even for alot of slow'ish sideshore conditions .....
Hey There,
I have a 105 Freewave STB and Mamba 94 and have also had a couple of Stubby 88s. I'm on the heavy side @95kg so generally use the Mamba with up to 5.3 and then switch to the FW 105 for 5.8 or very light cross-on 5.3.
Mamba v Stubby planing v similar for the same size, Mamba slightly easier to slog on with the slightly longer shape and definitely turns more easily on the front foot where as the stubby turns more on the tail. Stubby does feel a bit more compact and is really fun in small cross-on conditions, feeling pivoty and snappy on the tail going front side. Overall the Mamba is a definite improvement on the Stubby, still fun in small cross-on but much nicer in side shore.
Don't rule out the FW STB, it actually turns really well, a bit more off the tail like the Stubby, and is lovely and quick to plane. I've also used it in light float and ride side shore and it was surprisingly fun. Only small down side is because of the short tail and powerbox there is a limit to how wide you can get the footstrap spread so it's slightly narrower that I have on my other boards.
FWIW, here's my 2 cents...
Me: 75kg (1971). Mostly bump n' jump sailing, because our surf sucks and we have a lot of flat, side on-shore days in the summer. Only get a handful of good wave days in a year.
Gear: 97L Fanatic Hawk (2014), 99L Fanatic Stubby TE (2019), 115L Fanatic FreeWave (2010), 6.3 Goya Banzai (2018), 5.7 Goya Banzai (2022), 5.2 Sailworks Gyro (2014), 4.8 North Idol (2018)
Locale: East coast USA, sandy breaks, small (thigh to logo high) wind-driven surf (when there are waves), usually wind and current going in same direction on bigger swells, side to on-shore wind most of the time.
I love the Stubby TE for our conditions, but would not want it for my only board.
Pros: It is the most fun board I've used in the waves around here. At 60cm, it isn't too wide like some of the FSW shapes and it has the volume in the right place (all behind the mast) to help get me out when the wind and current are moving in the same direction in the surf zone. In those cases (wind and current killing me in the surf zone), I can be in or nearly in the straps, able to keep moving, but not be on a plane. Does get on a plane pretty well and has enough volume to keep the tail mostly out of the water if the wind dies. On the wave face, it is loose and very fun. Fun to jump, too. Goes upwind very well. I have used it mostly with a 6.0 (just retired) and 5.7 Goya Banzai, as well as the 5.2 Sailworks. Guessing it'd be fine until somewhere around 4.0 conditions, which have historically been a complete mess around here.
Cons: The stock fin setup is way too small for my location, which is usually the case with most boards. I currently am using a 22cm K4 fin, which is fine. A 20 or 21cm fin from MFC made for Stubby boards would likely be a better call. The main reason I wouldn't want as my single board is that it's a wave board and I live in spot that doesn't always have waves. It just can't keep up with the FSW boards and freeride boards (why should it?!). That said, I've hit 26.7mph on the Stubby TE. Was going 30mph on the Hawk on the same day using the same wave sail (Banzai). Also, unless you plan on duck tacking, I don't think there's enough there to pull off a tack, but can't say I've given much effort, either.
FWIW, I went to Maui this last June and tried a 2021 106L Goya Custom 3 with a 6.0 Banzai (light day), a 95L Fanatic FSW with a 4-something Ezzy legacy, and a 94L Starboard Kode with a 4-something Hot Sail. The Custom 3 was very nice and would be a fantastic wave board. However, too slow as a single board for my typical conditions. Wish I could've tried a Goya One for comparison. The Fanatic FSW (not a Stubby) felt boxy and surprisingly uninspiring (big fan of my Fanatics, but that one...not so much). I was really expecting to not love the Starboard, but the Kode was amazing. If I was going to get a single board, that would be the one, no doubt about it (until I got to try a new Goya One...probably). Not too wide, fast, fun, has guides on the board for how to rig for conditions, too (where to place fins, etc).
Hope that helps.
The starboard Freewave is pretty good, just need to watch for construction issues there too. As for the stubby, I'm going off of reading lots of tests, feedback, boards dimensions, watching it ride, and my own experience riding various boards.
I do favor pleasure over productivity, otherwise I'd freewave everything and sail big when wind is light and conditions are sideon.
Hi, I know it's difficult, but if you have the chance to try a goya custom 3 model 2018-2019... 20 liters more than your weight, you'll be surprised how fast it turns and how fast it glides. It's a very easy board. The board is also lighter than current models. a greeting
A friend of mine has the 2020 both on 80 and 90L. Loves them, planes fast and carves really well. He uses 5.8 and 5.0. he's a fairly passive planer and our conditions are definitely on the light side. I have an earlier Goya one and I'm pretty sure he goes better on his!
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Wave-sailing/fanatic-stubby-planing?page=1
The wave slate good better than the stubby, can someone confirm? Also surprised to see both the grip and ultimate wave so far behind the others...
Select to expand quotesanti4 said..
Hi, I know it's difficult, but if you have the chance to try a goya custom 3 model 2018-2019... 20 liters more than your weight, you'll be surprised how fast it turns and how fast it glides. It's a very easy board. The board is also lighter than current models. a greeting
Hi. Maybe it's a completely different topic, but my wife and me bought an 86 l goya thruster 2018 board, to be my 70% time all round wave board. We have also a very good goya quad 84 2015. We are light, 65-70kg. Though both boards have the same overall width, one foot off tail width and similar volume they have a completely different application. The 2015 84 quad is a buoyancy board, good for float&ride but tough in choppy waters.
The 2018 thruster 86 seems to be much smaller, not good for float&ride, but eats choppy with ease. In fact we've had to buy another board (86 ultrakode) and use the thruster 86 as high wind choppy board. Both turn great on the wave, in different ways.
I noticed the only important size I didn't have before buying is one foot off nose. Apart from volume distribution the main difference is that thruster 86 is much narrower in the nose than the quad 84.
Anyway, I wonder if two similar volume boards of the same brand could perform so differently only because of the shape, or brands marketing give volumes which are not real, only to scale proportionally the range. IMO it's an important problem on purchasing for the customers. Boards are not cheap and I don't live in a place where I can test every board before buying. They are not helping the future of the sport in this way. I can open a new topic if someone wants to discuss.
Agree 100% in both your findings and thoughts.
I have similar issues. It is challenging and difficult for brands themselves to know how each board will perform over the different spots and different rider weights and styles!
Select to expand quoteMucel said..santi4 said..
Hi, I know it's difficult, but if you have the chance to try a goya custom 3 model 2018-2019... 20 liters more than your weight, you'll be surprised how fast it turns and how fast it glides. It's a very easy board. The board is also lighter than current models. a greeting
Hi. Maybe it's a completely different topic, but my wife and me bought an 86 l goya thruster 2018 board, to be my 70% time all round wave board. We have also a very good goya quad 84 2015. We are light, 65-70kg. Though both boards have the same overall width, one foot off tail width and similar volume they have a completely different application. The 2015 84 quad is a buoyancy board, good for float&ride but tough in choppy waters.
The 2018 thruster 86 seems to be much smaller, not good for float&ride, but eats choppy with ease. In fact we've had to buy another board (86 ultrakode) and use the thruster 86 as high wind choppy board. Both turn great on the wave, in different ways.
I noticed the only important size I didn't have before buying is one foot off nose. Apart from volume distribution the main difference is that thruster 86 is much narrower in the nose than the quad 84.
Anyway, I wonder if two similar volume boards of the same brand could perform so differently only because of the shape, or brands marketing give volumes which are not real, only to scale proportionally the range. IMO it's an important problem on purchasing for the customers. Boards are not cheap and I don't live in a place where I can test every board before buying. They are not helping the future of the sport in this way. I can open a new topic if someone wants to discuss.
"...Anyway, I wonder if two similar volume boards of the same brand could perform so differently only because of the shape.." Of course they could. Shape imho is most important. Everything else follows: construction etc. As a matter of fact Bernd Roediger once said he uses only 75 l boards no matter the location or conditions. I bet no two of his countless 75 l boards have the same shape, parameters and volume distribution. Cheers!
Select to expand quoteMucel said..santi4 said..
Hi, I know it's difficult, but if you have the chance to try a goya custom 3 model 2018-2019... 20 liters more than your weight, you'll be surprised how fast it turns and how fast it glides. It's a very easy board. The board is also lighter than current models. a greeting
Hi. Maybe it's a completely different topic, but my wife and me bought an 86 l goya thruster 2018 board, to be my 70% time all round wave board. We have also a very good goya quad 84 2015. We are light, 65-70kg. Though both boards have the same overall width, one foot off tail width and similar volume they have a completely different application. The 2015 84 quad is a buoyancy board, good for float&ride but tough in choppy waters.
hi... sorry for the confusion, but since you mentioned the tabou pocket wave you were looking for early planing with easy on shore. you can ask for advice... but the best way is to try it yourself. I am also light at 68kg and it is a very important issue when asking for advice because normally a board that I like does not go well for people weighing 90kg.
That post about board volumes in different years would be interesting... I also have a freewave jp 93 liters and perfect up to 5.7 with choppy.
you can take it as a reference but better try it before if you can. where are you from mucel and manuel 7?
Select to expand quotesprayblaze said..Mucel said..santi4 said..
Hi, I know it's difficult, but if you have the chance to try a goya custom 3 model 2018-2019... 20 liters more than your weight, you'll be surprised how fast it turns and how fast it glides. It's a very easy board. The board is also lighter than current models. a greeting
Hi. Maybe it's a completely different topic, but my wife and me bought an 86 l goya thruster 2018 board, to be my 70% time all round wave board. We have also a very good goya quad 84 2015. We are light, 65-70kg. Though both boards have the same overall width, one foot off tail width and similar volume they have a completely different application. The 2015 84 quad is a buoyancy board, good for float&ride but tough in choppy waters.
The 2018 thruster 86 seems to be much smaller, not good for float&ride, but eats choppy with ease. In fact we've had to buy another board (86 ultrakode) and use the thruster 86 as high wind choppy board. Both turn great on the wave, in different ways.
I noticed the only important size I didn't have before buying is one foot off nose. Apart from volume distribution the main difference is that thruster 86 is much narrower in the nose than the quad 84.
Anyway, I wonder if two similar volume boards of the same brand could perform so differently only because of the shape, or brands marketing give volumes which are not real, only to scale proportionally the range. IMO it's an important problem on purchasing for the customers. Boards are not cheap and I don't live in a place where I can test every board before buying. They are not helping the future of the sport in this way. I can open a new topic if someone wants to discuss.
"...Anyway, I wonder if two similar volume boards of the same brand could perform so differently only because of the shape.." Of course they could. Shape imho is most important. Everything else follows: construction etc. As a matter of fact Bernd Roediger once said he uses only 75 l boards no matter the location or conditions. I bet no two of his countless 75 l boards have the same shape, parameters and volume distribution. Cheers!
For sure you are right, the shape is everything, but in this particular case, almost identical length, volume, overall width, one foot off tail width, brand. I guess Mr Roediger must have size differences in his 76 l boards. We don't have more data to compare. I reviewed tests in several magazines and don't trust anymore. If you have to test yourself everything before buying, this sport is only for people living in Maui, Pozo, Tarifa, Cape town and Perth. If industry is happy with this amount of customers, go ahead. IMO they can't afford putting difficulties and high prices to customers if they want the sport to survive. In this way what it's sure is it will not grow again. Discouraging your small number of customers is a good strategy.
Hey Mucel,
Agree 100 %. Strange things occur in the windsurfing business. Seems they are trying to discourage people and channel them towards all kinds of foil derivatives.. At least word on the street says so..
you can't trust all the tests that appear in magazines either... it happened to me that I was delighted with a board model and bought the following year because according to the catalog it was the same... upon arrival, the volumes and edges were different That's I tried it before... I've been to pozo to see the Quattro models before. At the price that the boards are, in my home no store has wave boards to see.I think I'll go back to custom boards
Select to expand quotesanti4 said..
you can't trust all the tests that appear in magazines either... it happened to me that I was delighted with a board model and bought the following year because according to the catalog it was the same... upon arrival, the volumes and edges were different That's I tried it before... I've been to pozo to see the Quattro models before. At the price that the boards are, in my home no store has wave boards to see.I think I'll go back to custom boards
Sometimes custom boards aren't quite what you expect either.
What would be great is if the custom board makers had the CNC files for the production boards and you could then take a board that you like and tweak it for your local wave break.
totally true, but if you choose a good shaper with experience and you have the chance to try a couple of his boards...you can fine tune the volume and rocker on the following boards...the sensations can be brutal...especially if you have some Body measurements different from the average. Also, like the serie boards ...there are different shapers with different ideas...and there are very special ones with their public as well. It's just finding the one you trust... all the standard boards come from the ideas of custom workshops.
Select to expand quotesanti4 said..
totally true, but if you choose a good shaper with experience and you have the chance to try a couple of his boards...you can fine tune the volume and rocker on the following boards...the sensations can be brutal...especially if you have some Body measurements different from the average. Also, like the serie boards ...there are different shapers with different ideas...and there are very special ones with their public as well. It's just finding the one you trust... all the standard boards come from the ideas of custom workshops.
Do you sail custom boards? Which brand? Just curious...
Select to expand quotewavecrazed said..
FWIW, here's my 2 cents...
Me: 75kg (1971). Mostly bump n' jump sailing, because our surf sucks and we have a lot of flat, side on-shore days in the summer. Only get a handful of good wave days in a year.
Gear: 97L Fanatic Hawk (2014), 99L Fanatic Stubby TE (2019), 115L Fanatic FreeWave (2010), 6.3 Goya Banzai (2018), 5.7 Goya Banzai (2022), 5.2 Sailworks Gyro (2014), 4.8 North Idol (2018)
Locale: East coast USA, sandy breaks, small (thigh to logo high) wind-driven surf (when there are waves), usually wind and current going in same direction on bigger swells, side to on-shore wind most of the time.
I love the Stubby TE for our conditions, but would not want it for my only board.
Pros: It is the most fun board I've used in the waves around here. At 60cm, it isn't too wide like some of the FSW shapes and it has the volume in the right place (all behind the mast) to help get me out when the wind and current are moving in the same direction in the surf zone. In those cases (wind and current killing me in the surf zone), I can be in or nearly in the straps, able to keep moving, but not be on a plane. Does get on a plane pretty well and has enough volume to keep the tail mostly out of the water if the wind dies. On the wave face, it is loose and very fun. Fun to jump, too. Goes upwind very well. I have used it mostly with a 6.0 (just retired) and 5.7 Goya Banzai, as well as the 5.2 Sailworks. Guessing it'd be fine until somewhere around 4.0 conditions, which have historically been a complete mess around here.
Cons: The stock fin setup is way too small for my location, which is usually the case with most boards. I currently am using a 22cm K4 fin, which is fine. A 20 or 21cm fin from MFC made for Stubby boards would likely be a better call. The main reason I wouldn't want as my single board is that it's a wave board and I live in spot that doesn't always have waves. It just can't keep up with the FSW boards and freeride boards (why should it?!). That said, I've hit 26.7mph on the Stubby TE. Was going 30mph on the Hawk on the same day using the same wave sail (Banzai). Also, unless you plan on duck tacking, I don't think there's enough there to pull off a tack, but can't say I've given much effort, either.
FWIW, I went to Maui this last June and tried a 2021 106L Goya Custom 3 with a 6.0 Banzai (light day), a 95L Fanatic FSW with a 4-something Ezzy legacy, and a 94L Starboard Kode with a 4-something Hot Sail. The Custom 3 was very nice and would be a fantastic wave board. However, too slow as a single board for my typical conditions. Wish I could've tried a Goya One for comparison. The Fanatic FSW (not a Stubby) felt boxy and surprisingly uninspiring (big fan of my Fanatics, but that one...not so much). I was really expecting to not love the Starboard, but the Kode was amazing. If I was going to get a single board, that would be the one, no doubt about it (until I got to try a new Goya One...probably). Not too wide, fast, fun, has guides on the board for how to rig for conditions, too (where to place fins, etc).
Hope that helps.
Only ridden the STB twice first time about 10 years ago hated it. On vacation in Jan I used it from the rental pool and absolutely loved it. Planned good, went up wind good, turned good. Anyways I came and was raving about the board and the "pro" was like 'i don't like the STB at all it's probably the big fins on there that you like'
Can remember size but here is a screen shot the center one was all jagged like a takuma foil (prob close to 25cm)
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
Can remember size but here is a screen shot the center one was all jagged like a takuma foil (prob close to 25cm)
Here is the fin set up I was on that day looks like a 21
That's a alot of fin area considering also the 12,5 side fins.
But these wide tails of the stubbys could handle that finpower and give you the lever to turn these larger fins.
As written in the toe-in thread in the wave section of the forum, i'll also update my Goya Nitro 106 to 12 sidefins since the stock 10 sides combined with the stock 21 centerfin are a little sensitive to spinouts when loaded above average by my 93 kgs with a big 5.5 sail in minimal upwind or overpowered conditions.
Because I'm cheap and already had an old 23cm G10 single fin, I sanded it way down to a 21cm with a (somewhat) similar profile as the 18cm Choco fin that came with the 99l Stubby TE. Haven't had great wave conditions, yet, but have had it out while overpowered in chop and flatwater on 5.2 and 4.8. Seemed fine, plenty maneuverable, will easily handle a bigger sail without spinning out. We have a spot between 2 sandbars that allows for pretty fun, chop free (or almost free) speed runs as long as there is enough water. Hit 27mph on the Stubby TE with a 5.2 there last week.
Well.I'm hoping to find out I'm wrong about the Stubby fins after all. I rewatched some tuning videos and think I've had the center fin too far forward this whole time. I think that has caused my issues. Next time it blows I'm trying the stock fin much further back. I do have some 10cm K4 front fins on order which may work well with 21cm or 22cm K4 center fin for bump and jump, but really hoping the stock fin in the right place is the answer.
I bought a 104 mamba in the hope it would replace my fanatic 105 freewave - post stubble version- for summer sailing and float n ride- Im 88-90 kgs
Though it wave rides really well it just doesn't have the get up and go that the freewave does for fanging around with a 5.7 - and being short and narrow doesn't feel that comfy with a 5.7 blade and can nose dive if you roll the sail forward and power it up after a gybe onto a wave - very frustrating.
I have a 92 goya custom 3 that probably gets going easier than the mamba in the similar wind
The mamba is fun but needs to be well powered to go and stay on the plane - best sail was on a 4.7 in 25 knts but that's what the goyas for.
Recently got a S/H 2022 100 ultra kode thruster which is easier to get on the plane than mamba and works with 5.7 to 4.0 and is a better in the waves - its shorter an wider 2cm - unfortunately it's delaminating on the bottom already - FFS what are they doing in the cobra factory ??
