I'm getting concerned about my investment in F4 foils. I guess this is why they've changed manufacturers, but I just received my new course race fuse and 1000 wing. This is what it looked like out of the box. Of course they'll replace it, but it took 4 weeks to get this, and today it's perfect conditions for it. Grrr..
The Fuse: The nose looks like it was hit with a giant hammer, so that there's a gap between wing and the front of the fuse. Also,the whole wing mounting area is just not symmetrical. But, at least this is functional, unlike the wing. This 1st pic is my slalom wing on that fuse, because I could not get the 1000 wing to mount at all.
i.imgur.com/DCM4JVJ.png' />
The wing: The screw holes were drilled so bad that I can't even tighten more than one screw down. The pic below is with the screws just dropped into countersink holes. They should sit in the middle, but they don't because the holes just aren't drilled straight. Also, note the crappy surface finish and pitting. That is all over the wing. Lastly, should the carbon weave deform around these screw holes?
Note how the bottom hole is elongated because it is not drilled perpendicular to the surface.
Select to expand quoteUS85 said..
I'm getting concerned about my investment in F4 foils. I guess this is why they've changed manufacturers, but I just received my new course race fuse and 1000 wing. This is what it looked like out of the box. Of course they'll replace it, but it took 4 weeks to get this, and today it's perfect conditions for it. Grrr..
The Fuse: The nose looks like it was hit with a giant hammer, so that there's a gap between wing and the front of the fuse. Also,the whole wing mounting area is just not symmetrical. But, at least this is functional, unlike the wing. This 1st pic is my slalom wing on that fuse, because I could not get the 1000 wing to mount at all.i.imgur.com/DCM4JVJ.png' />
The wing: The screw holes were drilled so bad that I can't even tighten more than one screw down. The pic below is with the screws just dropped into countersink holes. They should sit in the middle, but they don't because the holes just aren't drilled straight. Also, note the crappy surface finish and pitting. That is all over the wing. Lastly, should the carbon weave deform around these screw holes?
Note how the bottom hole is elongated because it is not drilled perpendicular to the surface.
Your foil bag was probably dropped vertically, or left standing vertically in transit. My slalom fuselage came with an identical dent, and the wing would not sit on it. F4 sent me a replacement within a week. Only time will tell if other issues crop up after extended use.
Select to expand quoteNiichts said..
Update: the mast-fuse connection finally gave way, and the rear fuse bolt/screw section (towards the stabilizer, so the third one) has begun to come apart, just below where the original cracking occured. Had to order a new mast, out of a fear of losing the entire fuse when under load.To clarify, the fuselage is entirely undamaged, it's the mast that appears to be damaged or defective.
After my session yesterday, I was disassembling the foil and the plastic mast cap came off for the first time. Looks bad but I'm not sure just how bad. I was hoping that's just the outer part and the inner structure is solid. But, then read what Niicts said above. Ugh. 
Select to expand quoteUS85 said..Niichts said..
Update: the mast-fuse connection finally gave way, and the rear fuse bolt/screw section (towards the stabilizer, so the third one) has begun to come apart, just below where the original cracking occured. Had to order a new mast, out of a fear of losing the entire fuse when under load.To clarify, the fuselage is entirely undamaged, it's the mast that appears to be damaged or defective.
After my session yesterday, I was disassembling the foil and the plastic mast cap came off for the first time. Looks bad but I'm not sure just how bad. I was hoping that's just the outer part and the inner structure is solid. But, then read what Niicts said above. Ugh.
Yup, that's almost identical to what happened to my previous mast. Unfortunately, I had bought it secondhand, and thus I couldn't get a warranty on it.
I suspect the connection of the mast - fuselage isn't strong enough to handle the torque. My new mast seems fine so far. For reference, I am primarily using the 90cm wing with the 115+ fuselage and 210 stab. I also own the 100cm wing + 230 stab as well as the 80cm slalom wing + 100cm fuselage, but rarely use either.
Only time will tell if the issue persists - though suffice to say it is hard for me to recommend F4 to anyone at my local spot because of the consistent QC issues. I'm hoping for the best at the moment, though I'm not optimistic.
2 month update:
The plastic cap of my mast-fuselage connection has come off, identical to the issue that @US85 has experienced above. This mast was brand new. It came off while I was disassembling and washing the foil today after a 2-hour session, and I was horrified when I saw the condition of the actual screw threads and mast head underneath it.
Given that this is a brand new mast that is falling apart after only 2 months of regular use, I am truly disappointed in the build quality of F4 products. Absurd.
The worst part is that if the plastic cap had not come off as I removed the mast from the fuselage, I wouldn't have been able to see the actual damage to the mast till it was probably too late.
& that's the "new" mast with the most recent logo, not the Sonic Composites product.. awful.
I've reached out to F4, still waiting for a response. If they make me pay to send this mast across the planet to warranty it, I'm going to be speechless.
Select to expand quoteNiichts said..
I've reached out to F4, still waiting for a response. If they make me pay to send this mast across the planet to warranty it, I'm going to be speechless.
Niichts have you had any response from F4 yet on the mast issue? Was yours one of the newer masts made in the cobra factory would you happen to know?
It took a while, but I've received warranty replacements for my wing, fuselage and mast issues. The wing and fuse were brand new replacements. The mast was a refurb. They reinforced the mast to fuse head by dispensing with the plastic mast cap and adding an additional layer of carbon and a final layer of fiberglass. Time will tell if it's a fix.
Select to expand quoteMikemelles said..Niichts said..
I've reached out to F4, still waiting for a response. If they make me pay to send this mast across the planet to warranty it, I'm going to be speechless.
Niichts have you had any response from F4 yet on the mast issue? Was yours one of the newer masts made in the cobra factory would you happen to know?
They told me to send it back to them at my expense. I had both the new and the old mast (so both factories) break in the same way. I truly wonder if anyone is using their course racing sets professionally at the Formula Worlds. It is no coincidence that both my and US85's masts, when used with the 945 and 850 course race wings and 115+ fuselage, have broken in identical locations. Even on the French forums, everyone is on the 100cm fuselages.
It would be too cost prohibitive for me to DHL/FEDEX the thing from where I live to either Bulgaria or the USA. Even if I did, I would have no guarantee, as per F4's warranty T&C (on their website), that I would get a new mast. I would also have no guarantee that they would repair it such that the issue wouldn't happen again. Worst case scenario, it somehow gets deemed as being caused by user error, and then they make me pay for both the repair and the return shipping.
I sent both my masts, old and new, for a local repair. However, my local shop only has the ability to do a fibreglass coating over the damaged areas, which means that it is likely to fail again eventually. I'll just let the F4 set collect dust till I figure out what to do with it after the repair. I will likely sell the wings and unused fuselages off at a later date.
I've cut my losses and purchased a Phantom R foil set shortly after doing the above. The build quality and finish on all the parts is significantly better than that of the F4.
The F4 was my third foil set. Despite its shortcomings in performance, the C300 Starboard race foil with the 115+ and 1000/800 (Pre-Evo) wings was also clearly better built.
Hi Seabreeze forum members!
I am one of the members of F4. I wanted to reach out and introduce myself, apologize for the issues some of you have experienced with our products.
To those of you whom have had issues, please accept our sincere apologies! There is no excuse for the quality issues at this level of product, the past 2 years and the associated logistical difficulties got to us as well. Having said that we stand by our customers, by our commitment to quality and performance and we will do our best to make it right! We have never left a customer stranded and we never will!
We will replace any broken component that's under warranty, and in the case of the masts with caps we will extend the warranty even further than the standard 1 year from date of purchase (on a case by case basis). Due to liability and insurance coverage we do require that the components that are being replaced be sent back to our EU or US office, while we understand that this is inconvenient and associated with expense, it is standard practice and required by our warranty policy.
To clear some of the speculation in the comments:
We do use multiple suppliers in Asia, and we have now opened and produce a number of our product lines (with more to come) in our own factory in europe. We are already shipping EU produced products, and as we roll out more and more of our EU hand made products on the market you will clearly see them marked as handmade in the EU in 2023. Having said that, products made in the EU carry a different cost structure and thus will have different price tag.
Our current Asia made products are used by all of our current team riders, and we have won plenty of races on the pro circuit this year, and have hundreds of happy customers, so i will let the product and its results speak for themselves.
We develop our products with our designers, R&D team, race team, and last but not least - you our customers! So if you have any feedback, suggestions on how to improve the quality, or ANY quality concerns/issues please reach out to us through our website, and we will be more than happy to help address them!
I just registered for the forum and as a new user i am not allowed to post videos, pictures or links, but if you go to our website or our youtube channel you will see the new mast and hear Chris describe the solution to the issues with the cap.
Happy sailing and thank you for your support!
F4 Team
Select to expand quoteMemoF4 said..
Hi Seabreeze forum members!
I am one of the members of F4. I wanted to reach out and introduce myself, apologize for the issues some of you have experienced with our products.
To those of you whom have had issues, please accept our sincere apologies! There is no excuse for the quality issues at this level of product, the past 2 years and the associated logistical difficulties got to us as well. Having said that we stand by our customers, by our commitment to quality and performance and we will do our best to make it right! We have never left a customer stranded and we never will!
We will replace any broken component that's under warranty, and in the case of the masts with caps we will extend the warranty even further than the standard 1 year from date of purchase (on a case by case basis). Due to liability and insurance coverage we do require that the components that are being replaced be sent back to our EU or US office, while we understand that this is inconvenient and associated with expense, it is standard practice and required by our warranty policy.
To clear some of the speculation in the comments:
We do use multiple suppliers in Asia, and we have now opened and produce a number of our product lines (with more to come) in our own factory in europe. We are already shipping EU produced products, and as we roll out more and more of our EU hand made products on the market you will clearly see them marked as handmade in the EU in 2023. Having said that, products made in the EU carry a different cost structure and thus will have different price tag.
Our current Asia made products are used by all of our current team riders, and we have won plenty of races on the pro circuit this year, and have hundreds of happy customers, so i will let the product and its results speak for themselves.
We develop our products with our designers, R&D team, race team, and last but not least - you our customers! So if you have any feedback, suggestions on how to improve the quality, or ANY quality concerns/issues please reach out to us through our website, and we will be more than happy to help address them!
I just registered for the forum and as a new user i am not allowed to post videos, pictures or links, but if you go to our website or our youtube channel you will see the new mast and hear Chris describe the solution to the issues with the cap.
Happy sailing and thank you for your support!
F4 Team
Thank you for your comments Memo
I appreciate you taking the time to reach out and inform us on these matters
Cheers
Tony Knight
