Gday everyone,
It has been a big year for GPS sailing in NSW. Over 50 people in last summers GPS series, and a similar number already for this year, with one event to go. GPSTC has been a great way to get to know lots of other sailors and share a common bond of going fast.
In terms of GPSTC, there were 127 different sailors posted sessions - all the statistics are here:
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/rankings/individual?country=1&year=2015&month=&state=2
Top 10's are below - congratulations to everyone.
2 Second Peak
1 - MT 44.28 (NSW Waters Record)
2 - SeaSkip 43.07
3 - Boss Man 42.43
4 - Byron Mcilveen 41.68
5 - Greg Kiskarpati 41.13
6 - Roar 40.43
7 - Biggs Darklighter 40.21
8 - Matt D 40.19
9 - Mark Jordan 40.17
10 - Atomic 39.90
5 x 10 Second Average
1 - MT 41.11
2 - SeaSkip 40.50
3 - Boss Man 39.89
4 - Byron Mcilveen 39.81
5 - Biggs Darklighter 38.69
6 - Mark Jordan 38.45
7 - Roar 38.19
8 - bushfire 37.68
9 - Greg Kiskarpati 37.04
10 - Gabe 37.02
1 Hour
1 - MT 26.38 (NSW Record)
2 - Artur Kowalski 25.71
3 - Byron Mcilveen 24.91
4 - Gabe 24.04
5 - Roar 23.92
6 - Mr Happy 23.48
7 - Mark Jordan 23.43
8 - TERRY 23.20
9 - Johnny Miller 23.19
10 - bushfire 23.16
Alpha Racing 500m
1 - Byron Mcilveen 26.49
2 - Roar 25.75
3 - Atomic 25.65
4 - MT25.40
5 - nick0 24.57
6 - Biggs Darklighter 24.51
7 - Gabe 24.50
8 - bushfire 24.47
9 - Mark Jordan 24.45
10 - TERRY 24.19
Nautical Mile
1 - bushfire 34.80
2 - Biggs Darklighter 34.47
3 - MT 34.29
4 - Byron Mcilveen 34.16
5 - Boss Man 33.64
6 - Matt 32.98
7 - Stu 32.61
8 - OK, it's Mike. Just Mike dammit. 32.16
9 - Roar 32.12
10 - Mr Happy 31.95
Distance Travelled
1 - Byron Mcilveen 305.35
2 - Artur Kowalski 202.36
3 - MT 199.32
4 - TEX 170.31
5 - bushfire 157.79
6 - Mr Happy 151.64
7 - nick0 139.99
8 - rob 138.00
9 - Eckers 134.57
10 - Matt D 132.72
** INDIVIDUAL OVERALL **
1 - MT 13
2 - Byron Mcilveen 17
3 - bushfire 45
4 - Roar 54
5 - Mark Jordan 57
6 - Biggs Darklighter 58
7 - Mr Happy 67
8 - Gabe 69
9 - Artur Kowalski 83
10 - Hugh 86
** NSW TEAMS OVERALL **
1 - Lake Macquarie - 568 pts 
(7th place overall in Aus)
2 - Illawarra Speedsters - 636 pts
3 - Marauders - 790 pts
4 - Double Demerits - 860 pts
5 - Breakaways - 1056 pts
6 - Gustbusters - 1196 pts
7 - Cockroaches - 1226 pts
8 - Stormriders - 1659 pts (started posting Nov)
Wishing everyone a windy 2016!
Have all these scores been verified by the keepers of GPSTC??? I think it's fair that anyone who places in the top 10 of any category for the year should be required to submit their files for scrutiny. No file, no score! Read into that what you may. Just Saying
Select to expand quoteJustSaying said..
Have all these scores been verified by the keepers of GPSTC??? I think it's fair that anyone who places in the top 10 of any category for the year should be required to submit their files for scrutiny. No file, no score! Read into that what you may. Just Saying
Hey Johnny. I submit all mine through KA72. I believe all numbers are kept on KA72 for verification? Is that what you mean, we should all submit through the same verifiable portal where numbers are ranked using the same algorithms (for uniformity) and can be audited if required? If so, I am sure all participants should be comfy with that.
I am pretty naive to the ins and outs of the GPSTC, so I would like to know more about the rationale behind your post (not wanting to read anything the wrong way). Do you have a sniff of possible cheating?
Given all the green thumbs there seem to be many who agree with you, hence my desire to understand. Please don't take my questions the wrong way. Cheers, Adam
Thanks for collating the numbers and posting James
Select to expand quoteAJEaster said..
JustSaying said..
Have all these scores been verified by the keepers of GPSTC??? I think it's fair that anyone who places in the top 10 of any category for the year should be required to submit their files for scrutiny. No file, no score! Read into that what you may. Just Saying
Hey Johnny. I submit all mine through KA72. I believe all numbers are kept on KA72 for verification? Is that what you mean, we should all submit through the same verifiable portal where numbers are ranked using the same algorithms (for uniformity) and can be audited if required? If so, I am sure all participants should be comfy with that.
I am pretty naive to the ins and outs of the GPSTC, so I would like to know more about the rationale behind your post (not wanting to read anything the wrong way). Do you have a sniff of possible cheating?
Given all the green thumbs there seem to be many who agree with you, hence my desire to understand. Please don't take my questions the wrong way. Cheers, Adam
Thanks for collating the numbers and posting James
No, not Johnny. Heres an example of why files posted by the top 10 need to be checked. Read into it what you will. Just Saying.
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2015-11-25&team=118
GPSTC is a FUN competition to encourage more people to be socializing and having fun while windsurfing, if you feel you want to be competitive and your scores taken seriously you should join gps speedsurfing. I don't condone cheating , but think that if your ego depends on the rankings and you are comparing yourself to the others you are defying the spirit of this game. I would prefer the occasional cheat to a system where everything is scrutinized, what's next? check your devices are approved, anti-doping tests? And if you want to say something tell it clearly and don't ask to read between the lines, plus I find it funny that you are using a new profile to complain.
Select to expand quoteJustSaying said..
No, not Johnny. Heres an example of why files posted by the top 10 need to be checked. Read into it what you will. Just Saying.
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2015-11-25&team=118
What are you trying to say idiot? I hardly call 37 knots a cheating speed ! And to think I gave you a green thumb.
Select to expand quotepowersloshin said..
GPSTC is a FUN competition to encourage more people to be socializing and having fun while windsurfing, if you feel you want to be competitive and your scores taken seriously you should join gps speedsurfing. I don't condone cheating , but think that if your ego depends on the rankings and you are comparing yourself to the others you are defying the spirit of this game. I would prefer the occasional cheat to a system where everything is scrutinized, what's next? check your devices are approved, anti-doping tests? And if you want to say something tell it clearly and don't ask to read between the lines, plus I find it funny that you are using a new profile to complain.
Seriously I love windsurfing and enjoy putting results on the GPS TC! But as soon as you compare results it is competitive! I am happy for all my results to be scrutinised!
Sorry James that your topic was high jacked! Thanks for posting.
I was thinking about it this morning and easiest way for this to be soved is the GPS TC to required all posts to be put through KA 72 and then all posts can be checked if required.
I hope everyone has a Happy and windy new year!
Select to expand quoteFeefee said..
...
WHHHHAAAAAAAT?
Johnny take a chill pill. My error was thinking that justsaying was you. An honest mistake given that you get booted off SB every week and turn up yet again with a new login name. Please accept my apologies if justsaying isn't really you.
Regarding this post: You are your own worst enemy Johnny......I don't know if you have noticed or not, but you tend to run off at the mouth quite a bit. You would seriously have more respect in the sailing community if you just showed some bare bones basic courtesy/respect for other forum users. In saying all this Johnny, I still love you and your passion for sailing.
Thanks James for your post.
Wow, please, lets take it very easy. Very disappointed in some of these comments especially when you don't know who you are really directing them at. Might be worth editing your post!!
It has been made clear that only approved Gps units can be used by GPSTC members. Ka72 should be the only way of uploading files to the challenge. Then we are all on the same field across the board and files are easily checked by anyone in doubt.
Mick Kay
Thanks for going to the trouble of posting the results James , greT results regardless of where people sailed to achieve it , as Matt says , using ka72 to post results is the way to go to have less dramas , then there's no disputing , it's easy to find on ka72 and its in black and white , personally it's great to make the top 10 , but as a irregular sailor don't get to dissapointed with crappy numbers
I made it onto the top 10 list and I know a lot of the sailors on there. I turn my GT-31 on at the start
and off at the finish and post when I get home and don't worry about Google maps etc. no analysing runs.
Most of these scores are at a recognised sailing location so you usually see the sailors who are putting in
on the water and know they are going hard and can have a chat at the end of the day.
Maybe you should be looking at the ones who are carrying up to 4 devices on there body!
The basis of the TC is personal integrity. The only way to get it is to model it, expect it and trust it.
Select to expand quoteMattDowse said..
Sorry James that your topic was high jacked! Thanks for posting.
I was thinking about it this morning and easiest way for this to be soved is the GPS TC to required all posts to be put through KA 72 and then all posts can be checked if required.
I hope everyone has a Happy and windy new year!
Matt I agree, this suggestion seems to be the simplest solution if verifying data becomes an issue.
Until someone disagrees and wants verification ?
Would be much easier for everyone to post through ka72. Save the questioning of integrity .
I agree , lets all post through ka72 , thats a level field any one can check anyones results at any time , i will often looks at someones results just to see where they went fast compared to other sailors , really helps
KA72 is good, I use it myself as it makes posting results easy. Most probably most people posting on the GPSTC use it. However there may be some people who for whatever reason don't want to use it. Also for whatever reason the owner of KA72 might decide to turn it off. The posting system for the GPSTC is not perfect. Its pretty clear no system ever will be.
Its reasonable enough for someone to question results if they see them as questionable. This is part of the honour system the GPSTC runs under. The rules are fairly clear in this regard and if followed should minimise disputes. This is from the rules page:
Responsibility:You are responsible for your own data. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. This website works mostly by the honesty system, and if you aren't honest with your numbers, then you will be found out eventually.
Data Verification:You must be able to produce a data file for any session that you sail. On occasion you may receive a request for this file, within one month of your data being posted. Failure to produce this file may result in a penalty being applied to your team.
Select to expand quoteswallowtail said...
I made it onto the top 10 list and I know a lot of the sailors on there. I turn my GT-31 on at the start
and off at the finish and post when I get home and don't worry about Google maps etc. no analysing runs.
Most of these scores are at a recognised sailing location so you usually see the sailors who are putting in
on the water and know they are going hard and can have a chat at the end of the day.
Maybe you should be looking at the ones who are carrying up to 4 devices on there body!
Its not just the 4 gps's they use but different types then takeing the best from each one in each category and putting all that through 3 different programs ... Its called analizing your data. Its pretty common knowledge by the top sailors that GPS results or realspeed give better scores in different categorys that's why you see some with 2 or 3 decimal points.
My 2 bob's worth:
I don't believe anyone is deliberately cheating. I'm a little surprised at the multiple devices thing but I can't imagine the variations being huge. I've never experienced any noticeable errors with my GT31.
I think the new KA72 is a great service. I especially like the new rating system. I must admit to being a little disheartened by the budgiewoi scene as I live 2 minutes from marmong and driving 40 minutes to budgiewoi isn't really what I want to be doing and as a result I found my contributions to my team dropping off. Now I can go out and sail hard in the choppy stuff and feel like I have arena to compete in that suits my type of sailing.
KA72 gets my vote it's a no brainer as I see it and I believe the owners of the GPSTC site have the right to decide.
In 1985 when I started the sport GPS was never heard of.
Primbee know for it's Weserly Winds and 25 years later getting back into the sport, becoming a member of the the Illawarra Speedsters, meeting heaps of people, getting tips and having fun. Today I will be retiring my "GT-31". I've meet a great buch of gents and ladies in my travels.
I think from now my PB's will be with the people I've meet and will continue to meet in the future.
Select to expand quotejimbob SA said..
swallowtail said...
Maybe you should be looking at the ones who are carrying up to 4 devices on there body!
Its not just the 4 gps's they use but different types then takeing the best from each one in each category and putting all that through 3 different programs ... Its called analizing your data. Its pretty common knowledge by the top sailors that GPS results or realspeed give better scores in different categorys that's why you see some with 2 or 3 decimal points.
Who are the guys carrying up to 4 GPS on their body besides me? Serious question. I don't know anyone else who does. I make no secret of the fact I often carry 4 or more GPS for comparison and testing as well as redundancy. Is it me you are having a go at?
I always post from one GPS only, and now I only post from the GW-52, unless it fails, and that has not happened yet. Who is spreading these vicious rumours? I often wonder what the morals are of those people who think everyone else is cheating.
My approach is that everyone has it in them to be fair and honest, and that is what I always expect. I don't think there is anyone cheating in this community. It would be stupid and only hurt them. If you think there is, maybe you should take a hard look at yourself.
From time to time we see results that look to be odd, out of the ordinary, or just don't seem to fit the conditions, the sailor or the venue. 99% of the time these are an error in the GPS, software or posting. We ask the team Captain to check the files or call in these files for checking. That is as it should be.
Two GPS's: IMO, everyone should carry at least two GPS for any session they think could be a counter for the team or a PB. This is basic back up redundancy insurance, and in fact for Official Records we insist on two minimum, which must be within the error margin of each other and we average the results.
Unless you are super organised, it is easy to have a gps run out of charge, or run out of memory, or not start at the start of the session because you have traveled and it has not got a proper fix, or be accidentally set to not recording etc. I have seen it all and I personally lost the ability to claim a World Record when two of the 3 GPS I carried failed to record the first 15 minutes of my 1 hour! There are lots of other reasons why they may miss part or all of a session. There is no way I want to miss a good session or a PB because I stuffed up with one GPS.
Even though I choose not to do it as a matter of principle, there would actually be a very good argument that with GT-31 and GW-52, when the results are all within the margin for error on many different devices so they are actually all as correct as each other. As one who has studied countless parallel GPS comparisons, I can tell you the difference between GPS is very rarely even a small fraction of the possible error margin and one would be lucky to gain more than a couple of hundredths of a knot by cherry picking. This would certainly not be significant, even at the highest level of our competition.
Posting to 3 decimal places: GPS-Results and RealSpeed give results to 3 decimal places. I and others simply copy and paste the results. So if I get a 40.956, that is what I post. I see no reason to round it up to 40.96. Where do you stop? Why not round it up again to 41? Better to just post the raw data as it is.
KA72: This has been a fantastic product for those wanting ease and simplicity of posting. For those who want a quick solution and don't want to expend the brain power to analyse and post their own files it is great. I highly recommend it's use to those who want to go that way. For those of use who were analysing our own files before even GPSAR and GPS-Results were invented, we like the ritual of DIY. The algorithms used in KA72 are tuned to produce the same results as GPS-Results, GPSAR-Pro and RealSpeed. There should be no differences in the posted results if the programs are set correctly according to the guides or defaults. KA72 is a great service but it is not guarantied to be around for you forever and it is a private system so it may not always be free. It is just one alternative way to post. It should never become compulsory to use a private proprietary system to post on GPS-TC.
Personally, I am a bit old fashioned and have privacy issues with putting every detail online for anyone to mine. If you ask me for a look personally, I am only too happy to oblige and will send you the files to analyse yourself. I usually like to post the GPS map of my tracks as well which shows you where I ran. I really like it when others choose to share that as well, but is should never be mandatory.
It is interesting that there seems to be just a few people who's keep popping up in these nasty debates. Sort yourselves out guys and let the rest of us get on with enjoying our passion.
Been watching this all day.
What is the main thing here??
Is the insinuation that if you don't use KA72 (Dylan should be canonised. And if you don't know what the word means Google it or you shouldn't be out in public unsupervised) your data is "suss" or is it that there are a few ways you can post??
Im sure most windsurfers who are part of the GPSTC just enjoy being part of the experience, really, its a "I belong to something I love" feeling.
If you are into the analysing data bit then well and good. If you just want to post your numbers, same as. Some guys love the rankings stuff, sweet.
We have all levels of windsurfer here, the elites, the hardcores, the wanna get better'rs (is that a word?) the cruisers etc.
Does it matter, we are all still doing the same bloody thing in the same bloody world wide club.
Personally, Im lazy. I get to a spot, I turn my GPS on, go sail. I come in, turn it off, talk **** and go home. Grab a beer (or several) and whack the SD card in the puter and let KA72 do its thing. Its fun, fulfilling and its not sheep stations. And Im not real computer savvy to do the rest
I know what Im crap at and what Im OK at and what I can improve on. My Hour is among the best in the business along with distance, try to keep up. I have limitations, don't we all?? But I still LOVE going sailing with blokes who are heaps better than me and we still have a sweet time on the water together.
Enjoy your windsurfing and strive to improve but don't lose sight of the fact that we sail because IT'S FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Bro, Nudist, maybe I can have your GT-31 and then will have two to pick the best score.
Yeah all yours Old Silver Fox, will clear all the data from the SD card, drop it of to you this week..
Select to expand quotesailquik said..
KA72 is a great service but it is not guarantied to be around for you forever and it is a private system so it may not always be free.
I just want to state on the record, that as long as there are paying subscribers for the extra stuff that ka72 does, the things that are free now will stay free in the future.
ka72 is a passion, not a living, for me. It barely makes enough income from subscribers to cover hosting and operating costs, but that's fine by me. Everything in excess of operating costs is put back into making it better.
Dylan.
